A caravan of migrants is nearing Mexico's border. - Donald Trump Discussion

Which country did YOUR ancestors immigrate from? Let's talk about glass houses and stones.

reply

America wasn't always a welfare state. People didn't come for the wrong reasons. And immigration was still harmful in terms of economic inequality for the working class. That's why every country has an immigration policy, especially Israel.

reply

[–] Keelai (32645) 6 years ago

Nonsense! Italians, the Irish, Jews, Scandinavians and other immigrants from Europe were despised and not wanted in the United States. Son of immigrants and KKK member Fred Trump (Don's father) was marching (really rioting) against Irish Catholics when he was arrested.

Immigrants came for economic reasons and to flee persecution. Nothing has changed except the hypocrites who are complaining about immigration.

BTW, Trump is against chain migration, but it's fine for his in-laws have just used chain migration to become citizens. More hypocrisy.

Speaking of welfare, Trump just stole money from the middle-class to give an unneeded tax cut to himself and his rich friends (welfare for the rich!) which increased the deficit. And Trump is giving $12 billion in welfare to farmers because of his tariff war. If you really cared about welfare, you'd be complaining about Trump's policies!

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 6 years ago

Italy. They were poor and wanted a better life, so the immigrated LEGALLY. It wasn't easy either. They made sacrifices. First my Grandfather came here, got a job, an apartment, saved money and sent for the rest of the family.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

I don't think the term 'illegal' was coined yet back then. There were other words for it though as shown in the videos I provided below.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Immigrated from Asia for sure. I'm lucky/fortunate enough to be born in the Americas and not some 3rd world place. I don't whine or complain about the benefits established here but I also don't like abusers of the system. That said, I have no say on the matter in my original post and what they decide is up to the government. Also, I don't see why this is really an issue now since Obama deported far more during his tenure but very few on the left complained about it then if at all.

That said, I love history and I love learning it. There is some relation to what's happening now like back then. What was the mafia then is now the gangs MS13/18 and the likes of now I guess. In time, maybe we'll accept them, but definitely not now (well, not under Trump's rule anyway). Or maybe we just need another World War and it'll all be sparkles thereafter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPolqp1sIpU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=behsmaHh2bg < - Look at 1970+ and the slow Mexican takeover.

Germans, Italians, Irish, British, Scandinavians, Russians, Canadians ect. Not diverse
Overwhelming Mexican majority with, and I quote, "only five white majority." Yes diverse

reply

[–] Keelai (32645) 6 years ago

The English/WASP are the largest ethnic group - not Mexicans. Next are Germans. Then African-Americans. Finally Mexicans.

Are Mexican Indians or mestizos considered immigrants especially when part of the United States used to be Mexico like California, Texas, Utah, Nevado, most of Arizona, Colorado, etc. Good videos but the second one glossed over this information. The borders moved and many Mexicans ended up Americans. They have more of a right to be here than the people doing the complaining if they are indigenous or largely indigenous, anyway.

RE: part of Mexico becoming American states:
"But the U.S. government still did its best to make its newest citizens foreigners in their own land and unwelcome in their own country. Congress passed the Homestead Act in 1862, allowing Americans to apply for Western land in exchange for farming on it -- taking land that belonged to Mexicans.

Later, during the Great Depression, the United States deported almost 2 million Mexicans. More than half of them were U.S. citizens.

Despite this history of bigotry, discrimination and exclusion, we're still here, contributing to American society and the economy. Latinos have $1.5 trillion in purchasing power. Latino-owned businesses were responsible for 86% of small business growth from 2007 to 2012. That means we created a whole lot of jobs, for Latinos and non-Latinos alike."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/04/11/mexicans-didnt-immigrate-to-america-weve-always-been-here/#42fdb504245d

reply

[–] PresidentAckbar (1289) 6 years ago

My great grand parents immigrated legally from Holland in 1904. Their name is etched in stone at Ellis Island.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

IIRC you're a 1st gen immigrant yourself Rory. So what's up with all the contempt for immigrants?

Besides, your narrative of what they'll "reap" while here sounds pretty presumptuous and out of touch given just who's in charge now and his track record of hostility. I wonder if this caravan has any idea of what's in store for them. But if they do I have even more sympathy because it would mean whatever they're running from must still be worse than the risk of being locked up in a Trump migrant labor camp.

reply

[–] Thrillhouse (1509) 6 years ago

That makes no sense. They would just go to Canada or Mexico instead, but they come to America because it is the most generous and least restrictive.

You just don't want to pay your maid a living wage, and let the social burden fall on the taxpayers.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Trump's concentration camps for migrants looked pretty restrictive to me. Are you going to help them jailbreak out of their cages so they can go back to Mexico?

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 6 years ago

You know those cages were nothing new and the same ones used under the previous administration, right?

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Yes. But you know the zero tolerance policy by this administration puts far more people in those cages right?

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 6 years ago

Yes. But hardly a concentration camp scenario or anything even remotely like it. Splitting up families was a horrible idea, but at the same time, we need to enforce our border security.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Then what would you call this exactly?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/09/584722399/appeals-court-broadens-immigrant-detainee-case-alleging-forced-labor

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 6 years ago

I certainly wouldn't call it a Concentration Camp! Your making a mockery out of the Holocaust for Political sake!

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

I normally call them migrant forced labor camps. That's entirely descriptive enough to get the point across.

reply

[–] Padeen (6459) 6 years ago

Forced labor is usually used for profit. In this case, they are cleaning the area where they are being detained. Being detained isn't fun. I have no problem with this.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

My problem is the extended incarceration, essentially throwing them into these private prison lockups treating them like hardened criminals, even for the first time misdemeanor crime of illegal border crossing. Keeping asylum seekers in these lockups is also unconscionable because seeking asylum is not illegal. They're given the option of working for $1 an hour, no different than private prison for-profit labor that benefits their jailers. Illegals are granted a much more limited set of due process rights and Trump and his immigration hard liners are exploiting this by allowing the private prison industry to exploit migrants like they do criminals.

The 10th Circuit Court of Appeals apparently disagrees with you in their motion to grant the class action suit involving the forced labor of migrants in these prison camps to proceed.

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

Trump's concentration camps? you must be out of your goddamn mind... I study history, especially the second World War. To even compare this to concentration camps is hugely offensive and downright inaccurate and harmful. Its a shame really and I do feel bad for you, to be this ill-informed and ignorant. I hope you actually learn some history someday and widen your world-view..

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 6 years ago

And no one should feel bad for you because you know things the rest of us don't !
Someday I will "actually" learn some history and my world-view will be be widened so I will agree with you.
We all can only aspire to reach the learned heights you've achieved, Sire.

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

Well I don't pretend to know things other people don't know. But in this instance I would say yes, I know stuff that user eYeDEF doesn't know. Because if he knew the true horrors and madness that happend in concentration camps, he would know that even using that word in this context is absurd and harmful. He would know that its not a fair comparison and hugely understates what actual concentration camps were like..

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Spare me your faux PC outrage. At no point did I ever mention WW2. It's hilarious you claim to study history and somehow think Nazi Germany has a trademark on the word "concentration".

But I do find watching you act like a drama queen entertaining. 😆

Please do continue so I can amuse myself by making fun of you.

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

They certainly do not. The British invented them, not Nazi Germany. During the Boer Wars. However, even if you compare them to the British concentration camps, its still 100% inaccurate. Not only inaccurate, just very ignorant and dumb. If you think making a fool of yourself is entertaining, then please go on. I've said my piece.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Yet you're the one making a spectacle out of yourself. There you go again, imagining I'm making your stupid comparison to British concentration camps. You need to get off the drugs kid.

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

Concentration camps mean imprisonment of a group of people without charges of a crime. Since I last checked, being illegal is a crime. Hence the word illegal. Case closed. I can't believe I even need to explain basic stuff to you. But there you go. Now you can rest and sleep easy, knowing your learned something today :)

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

You're not even a clever troll, you're not subtle enough. But again, I do find this whole charade very amusing. :)

reply

[–] Keelai (32645) 6 years ago

"Concentration camps mean imprisonment of a group of people without charges of a crime. Since I last checked, being illegal is a crime."

Then by your own definition, they are concentration camps because seeking asylum is not illegal.

Placing asylum seekers in these camps is against international law as well as several American statutes. Lawsuit pending:
https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/parole_litigation_Mar15.pdf

reply

[–] Keelai (32645) 6 years ago

Did you just insult the First Lady?

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Could be one of those phases of protectionism. I'll probably get over it eventually, just not now. And by reap, economic migrants are just that. They see the abundance of wealth from other countries, they want in, they go there to reap the benefits either through hard work or just leeching off the government teat.

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Rory is losing his mind, right before us. Notice his odd, often wrong posts the past few weeks? He's even trying to suck up to the Russian bots on this forum. Something's up.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

It really is weird. But ironically I remember him saying English is not his first language so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there's something lost in translation. 😶

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

Russian bots xD wow. The Russian bot conspiracy is just as stupid as the Soros-Zionist shit I come across on the internet. Everytime someone brings 'Russian bots' up in a conversation or discussion I just shake my head and leave. There is no point is talking to people that actually believe the Russian bots thing is real. Sure there are Russian hackers, but this whole bots thing is just bullshit. Everyone with a different opinion than you is a Russian boy? Grow the F up. Stop being a special snowflake.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 6 years ago

You've just been outed by a Bot Spotter. Time to shake your head and leave.

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

Such arguments, many wins. Wow.

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

See ya!

reply

[–] dteam6 (5073) 6 years ago

America was founded on immigration. Even the Native Americans were immigrants once upon a time.

We are all descendants of immigrants.

This is a fact that is lost on Trump and his base.

Furthermore, the painful irony of it all is this: If America ever fell/sank into economic ruin, many Americans WOULD be doing EXACTLY the same as these migrants and try to seek refuge in other countries. This is a fact, not speculation.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Yes, I hear that phrase all the time. I never disputed the fact it wasn't. What we need imo is controlled migration and not a influx of mass migration. Not many complained back then (or wasn't such an explosive issue as it is now).

Sometimes I wonder with all these migrants trying to get in is because of the fact Trump has furthered the economic boom after Obama and they realize it. I need to find some stats on the amount trying to enter now under Trump than when Obama was in office. I remember before some article about migrant or was it illegal crossing that has declined over the years but who knows what it is now. Lately in the news this is the second so-called 'caravan' of migrants I see.

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

I find it funny that so many Americans were shouting they woud leave if Trump got elected. So many celebrities cried over this. Where are all those people right now? Yep, still living in the USA. And now even more people want to come over. Its funny to see. If the USA is soooo bad under Trump, why is the USA such a beloved destination?

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 6 years ago

" ... snore ... snxxx ... "
Nationalism first ! Why does everyone want to come here if it's so shitty ! Let's make it shitty so people don't want to come here ! Let's not be compassionate while the 1% sucks up all the wealth, let's turn our backs on the Unfortunates who were born into Shit-hole Countries. It's their own fault, they should fix their own countries. It's not a global world, we should restrict travel of Our Own Citizens, just to prove the point that We Are Us, They Are Them, are we can't stand the idea we might start mixing it up and improving the lives of everyone while making small sacrifices ourselves. God forbid the USA should become like Italy or the UK, once the Seat of Power, now struggling along like the rest of the World.
Look, the USA spends more of it's wealth on Defense than the next 10 countries combined. Isn't that enough Defense for people? Can't we try to do something Positive in the World rather than create an Island of Security?

reply

[–] Vechtersbaas (550) 6 years ago

Damn, you are making some valid arguments. The task of a government is to take care of its people. Provide safety and prosperity. Thats literally its number 1 job. Its not the task of the government to take in the rest of the world to make their lives better. lol.

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Its not the task of the government to take in the rest of the world to make their lives better. lol.

We should start with Slovenia. Let's send Melania back to where she came from, and stop living off the taxpayer's money in the White House. As you said, no reason for us to make HER life better.

And while we're at it, let's send her parents back to Slovenia, since they just got their US citizenship a few months ago, through the forbidden "chain migration" which T-rump is so adamantly against. Why in the world are we making their lives better? And why have taxpayers been footing their bill while they've been in America - allowing them to fly on AF1 with their daughter?

To paraphrase what you've said, "It's not the task of the government to take in the rest of the world to make their Slovenian lives better." Send the Knavs home!

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

Remember when Rush Limbaugh (and I believe Glenn Beck) said they were going to leave the USA if Barack Obama (a b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-black man! gasp!) was elected President in 2008? Where did they go for 8 years? Oh that's right...nowhere. They stayed right here, in the comfort of their American homes.

reply

[–] Keelai (32645) 6 years ago

"What we need imo is controlled migration and not a influx of mass migration. "

There has always been mass migration in times of trouble like the Irish during the potato famine This country doesn't really belong to any one group, so no immigrant nor immigrant descendant has the right to deny others the same opportunity their family had without being a hypocrite. America is the land of immigrants no matter what hypocrite Trump says.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Trump's response to the caravan:

Don't be a baby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG3ws1tIuMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTwlbnWHLdA

I don't agree with what he says here but I wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple dressed as migrants wanting to infiltrate in.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

What would be the point? So that immigration authorities can cage them up and deport them as soon as they learn they are "hardened criminals"? It's not like their bios aren't scrutinized and identities verified when determining whether they're even qualified to immigrate legally.

You're acting like they could just make up anything they want and immigration officials would accept it and welcome them right in. It's a process and it's not exactly easy to legally immigrate or claim asylum.

reply

[–] dlancer (2036) 6 years ago

Which is why more illegal immigrants were leaving the US than entering during Obama's administration. But the only way to satisfy the white nationalist urges of the alt-right was for Trump to pretend like there was an epidemic.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Indeed. That's why there is 10-11 million illegals. To them, the process is too slow so they'll just help themselves right in.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Even if they did, it's not like they could go down to the SS office and apply for welfare. If illegals stay it's because they're willing to work those back breaking jobs that Americans don't want in order to have enough to survive themselves. So I'm having a hard time understanding what finite resource you think they're "helping" themselves to that is somehow taking anything of substance away from you.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Update:
Migrant caravan in Guatemala breaks through border fence into Mexico
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfpI3VDx63U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LIRAWbk-_E 1:35 to see the size of it along with injured Mexican federales.

Here comes the enrichment.

reply

[–] snepts (11123) 6 years ago

Here's a tune sympathetic to Republican sentiments:

They asked the Rancher's Son what happened to the Lad?
"Oh, I don't know, and we didn't do nothin' bad.
And what's all the Fuss? They ain't like us.
They don't matter anyway."

They took his Hands and they bound him up with Wire
When the Sun went down it felt like Fire

The Sun puts him down and the Moon pulls him up
He's all alone and he cries like a Pup
My Mother, my Sister, well I don't know
Let the Four Winds Blow

I wanna go home but I'm too Far North
And the cry comes forth
Coyote !
Why did you take me so far from home?
Coyote ! Why did you leave me?
I'm all alone.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16826) 6 years ago

Update 2:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/20/migrant-caravan-honduras-migrants-mexico-border/1709896002/

Authorities say large groups of Central America migrants continue to surrender to Border Patrol agents in Arizona, with the arrival of one recent group numbering 108 captured in dramatic video images.

About 1,000 Central American migrants on a desperate trek to reach the U.S. remained stuck Saturday on Mexico's southern border as authorities refused to let the group cross en masse, but many remained undaunted.

Aren't we like overburdened with the previous caravan that we now house in cages etc.?

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

The private prison industry responsible for those detention units are booming. I'm sure they don't mind, they're getting paid.

reply