MovieChat Forums > Midsommar (2019) Discussion > The problem with this great film

The problem with this great film

posted 3 years ago by Drooch (5333)
13 replies | jump to latest

Overall this film is another slam dunk from Aster, and the fact that some audiences believe Dani has ‘won’ at the end speaks to Aster’s power to indoctrinate people through his filmmaking the same way the cult indoctrinates Dani.

The film has a hypnotic quality - it’s bright, gentle, languid and beautiful - even when it’s showing you a paralysed man sewn into a bear suit being burned alive. Genius stuff.

But there’s a nagging issue for me, and that is that I didn’t believe the victims would be so easily led to the slaughter. As soon as they saw the oldies fall to their deaths, and the cult mash the old guy’s face in with a mallet, any sane person would start planning their escape, and they’d know to keep quiet and not provoke the cult.

Also, I would approach my supposed friend Pelle and be like ‘WhyTF didn’t you tell me we’d be witnessing suicide and murder?’ That scene needed to be there, as well as the team discussing their escape, because without it a reasonable person loses connection to the protagonist(s).

This also led me to think that maybe Aster knew he needed more justification for Dani’s fairly easy slide into murderous May Queen, and I wonder if he bolted on the opening of her entire family dying (a reliable tool in Aster’s wheelhouse) to help grease the wheels after the fact. The opening does feel somewhat tacked on and forgotten about, and I’m questioning the ‘exploration of grief’ refrain I keep hearing. That stuff feels a bit like an afterthought.

Also, I didn’t buy the ‘shared pain’ idea, where the women all scream along with Dani and it acts as a catharsis. I was far more convinced when Pelle was comforting her intimately - that was an example where I could see how Dani would plausibky be seduced by the cult, but the mimicked crying just seemed like drama class bumfoolery.

So yeah, I think the script needed to cover those bases but instead Aster made the lazy choice to artificially nerf the victims and buff the cult. It’s like he was in a rush to get this out immediately after Hereditary, for some reason.

I only mention all this because it’s a fantastic film and when a potential classic comes along one has to ask if there’s anything holding it back from greatness.

[–] fzane (1021) 3 years ago

In the Director's Cut, after the cliff jumping, Dani desperately tries to convince Christian to leave with her. Simon and Connie did react the way you mention, and were subtly made an example of as well. Remember, except for Dani, these "victims" were "chosen" by the cult because of their utter douchebaggery and/or stupidity. Simon moved in on Ingemar's girl. Christian and Josh were competing for the thesis thing when they could have just been working together, and their egos easily blinded any worries about the cult offing them. Mark slept through the whole event, and just hearing about it probably didn't have that much of an impact on him since he was dumber than a box of rocks.

After realizing the cult slaughtered all her companions, Dani deduced that if she didn't comply, and choose Christian, it's likely the cult kills them both. So, backed against the wall, out of shear desperation, she made the choice to pick Christian; At least she gets to live, and perhaps escape/warn someone, etc. However, after she watched him burn, and realized that she was now complicit in a murder, her already cracked mind broke completely. Wrapped in a powerful hold of Stockholm Syndrome taken to the Nth degree, she went insane.
Here is the last line from the script that illustrates her state of mind:
"A SMILE finally breaks onto Dani’s face. She has surrendered to a joy known only by the insane. She has lost herself completely, and she is finally free. It is horrible and it is beautiful."

MidSommar is an "instant" classic, and is indeed pure greatness! It is already being studied in film schools across the world. Ari Aster is currently working with top-of-the-heap Academy Award Winning Joaquin Phoenix right now because everyone in the industry knows that Ari is something special. The best of the best want to work with him, and make really long thoughtful films with him. There is no denying this fact. Ari has taken over now, and no one else even comes close.

[–] Drooch (5333) 3 years ago

I didn’t buy that writing a thesis would be reason enough to stop you a) immediately confronting your Swedish friend about why the hell he didn’t mention that this supposed paradise retreat features bloody suicide and murder and b) immediately planning an escape. Sod your thesis, your life’s in danger.

Once Simon ‘left’ under extremely dodgy circumstances there would be no question that it’s time to GTFO.

I agree that Aster is an exciting new filmmaker but he needs to iron these things out in future scripts. The reasons he gave for his character’s totally irrational behaviour weren’t good enough.

[–] Batty67 (358) 3 years ago

Fair points. Their not immediately pulling a "right, we're out of here" after the suicide and face smashing was not realistic. The thesis thing for one was, maybe, but two. Complaints aside, I really liked the concept and production. Better than most movies these days.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

I didn’t buy that writing a thesis would be reason enough to stop you a) immediately confronting your Swedish friend about why the hell he didn’t mention that this supposed paradise retreat features bloody suicide and murder and b) immediately planning an escape.

Jsoh is unfazed. This is his life's work. He's open to shit like this. I know that sounds absurd, but that's the reality of it. They were old, they were of age. He's aware of this alleged practice already. To see it be real certainly impacts him, but he has an anthropological neutrality that a normal lay person could not possibly imagine.

Christian is arguably a blank slate / sociopath already, depending on how you to interpret his character.

Mark is a moron.

Simon and Connie reacted as you would expect. And everyone bought the explanations (from selfishness, self-absorption, you name it) except for Dani. Dani correctly realized something was wrong. But she was alone, and confused, and drugged, and dealing with other shit, and then finally when it's too late, she's in this strange liminal space between cult influence and fear/desperation, that she has no choice but to send Christian to his death.

[–] Drooch (5333) 2 years ago

‘She had no choice but to’ sew her paralysed boyfriend inside a bear and burn him alive. No choice 🤣

[–] MrAnonymous (145) 7 months ago

Precisely! As a matter of fact I would not have even confronted the friend, out of fear that he might mean us harm and tip the cult people off that we are suspicious. I'd just quietly pull my friends aside and have a chat with them, while smiling and playing dumb with the cult people. I'd pretend I'm very happy and then as a group leave in the middle of the night as quietly as possible.

[–] Bloodworth79 (5609) 2 years ago

The cover art seems very pretentious

[–] modica (4169) 2 years ago

Another person who uses the word "pretentious". How exactly is the cover art "pretentious"? Please explain, but I doubt if you can.

[–] FootOfDavros (7302) 2 years ago

Also, I would approach my supposed friend Pelle and be like ‘WhyTF didn’t you tell me we’d be witnessing suicide and murder?’ That scene needed to be there...

Especially given that they'd asked him about it the night before and he'd brushed them off with a "it's too hard to explain, it's better that you just see it...".

Of course it wasn't at all hard to explain but at that point they should all have been incredibly distrusting of Pelle and desperate to leave. I just put it down to them being kept fully drugged up from the moment they arrived and therefore unable to act rationally.

[–] Drooch (5333) 2 years ago

Well Simon and Connie reacted rationally - appalled at the rituals and instantly tried to escape - and presumably they were on a similar cocktail of drugs, so I don’t get why the main characters didn’t do the same.

[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

"As soon as they saw the oldies fall to their deaths, and the cult mash the old guy’s face in with a mallet, any sane person would start planning their escape..."

Dani and company were told that the other visitors had left, and that douche Mark had left, and that belief that escape was possible kept them from panicking and running off when it was sensible to do so. The other thing that kept them from running off was that they were in the middle of nowhere in a strange country, with no car and presumably no working cell phones, so they couldn't call any sort of ride. What could they do, run into the woods, woods that the cultists knew better than they did, and hope the cultists didn't have a guarded perimeter or dogs who could track them? No, with all that, and the fact that the old folks seemed to have jumped to their deaths voluntarily, and the fact that Mark and Christian were idiots, I can believe they didn't make a run for it. Also, because Josh, the one person in the group capable of reacting sensibly to danger, was lured in by more information for his thesis, something Pelle undoubtedly knew would be a draw.

So it wasn't until that final day that Christian realized everyone else was gone, and he was in deep shit, and he just didn't know what to do. I mean he was a useless douche and not very bright, but even he could see that if he ran they'd catch him, and all he could think to do was silently beg Dani to save him. And well, if your girlfriend is your only hope of survival, it's really best to pass on the sex rituals with other women.

[–] Seperatrix (1104) 7 months ago

"As soon as they saw the oldies fall to their deaths, and the cult mash the old guy’s face in with a mallet, any sane person would start planning their escape . . . "

I think that's why Aster had the elder women (or was it Pelle?) quickly explain the tradition and how it was far better to go with dignity than deteriorate in a nursing home. Something like that. That would ring reasonable enough for the two competing thesis students, especially since they were blinded by ambition and competition. The other one in the group was dumb as a rock. And Dani was shocked but just responded in a different way. Of course she was the only voice of reason later on when the couple disappeared.

"The opening does feel somewhat tacked on and forgotten about . . . "

I occasionally wonder about the little girl and the bear painting in Dani's apartment shown in the beginning of the film. I mean, what was that all about? If it's nothing more than foreshadowing it's laying on a bit thick I think. But what other purpose would it have served?

[–] Melton (2686) a month ago

Never saw the girl’n’bear painting. I suspect it’s just Aster throwing in Easter Eggs for internet chat boards, he did similar with those barely visible figures in the dark in Hereditary.

It acts as a cheeky bit of foreshadowing. I’ll take it.