His scribbles were that of someone with an IQ of a 6 year old. He couldn't string together a coherent sentence. His notes on jokes were really bad.
Yet when he spoke on the murray show he was very articulate and insightful. He went head to head with a man who's job it is to debate people and was the victor.
I kind of feel like in a lot of movies they want to have their cake and eat it too. But it creates a glaring plot hole.
I guess you could say him going off his meds cleared his mind some.
shareYep, that's what docs do when they can't figure you out, put you on numerous types of anti-psycho meds that make you docile and mellowed out for the most part where you just accept the outcome of almost everything. While they have some uses, most of the time they don't work and never really addresses the problem the patient is suffering from imo.
I know a person who has autism and he's on 8 different kinds of meds, some being anti-psychotic ones and he still does the same shit that takes hours to do but he tells me he can't cum no more and that he says it helps him focus a bit (which I haven't seen any evidence of).
Yep, that's what docs do when they can't figure you out, put you on numerous types of anti-psycho meds that make you docile and mellowed out for the most part where you just accept the outcome of almost everything.
This was my interpretation also. The meds dumbed him down. When he went off them and their effect slowly wore off, he could think clearly.
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I agree.
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The film-makers have used little bits of things which doesn't add up at the end, just because they thought it cool to include.
Like how we see in horror movies, crazy guys scribbling senseless stuff in their diaries. They just wanted to emphasize on Arthur's psychosis, but like how you said doesn't go anywhere and contradicts his behaviour in different scenes.
But for the end scene, Arthur was more confident guy when he turned into Joker. His laughter condition seemingly vanished and he could articulate things better than before.
good point.
shareHe didn't win the debate, he won because he shot Murray's head.
shareHe won and killing murray is actually a sign of him winning because he didn't kill himself. He felt that empowered for the first time in his miserable life that he decided he would forge on. Someone had to die that night, and it wasn't going to be him.
shareWhy someone had to die that night? He could win the debate and not kill anyone. That would be winning.
shareI think he shot Murray because he shamed Arthur on live TV, and Murray had been an idol of his. You can see how hard it hit him when he was watching Murray making fun of him on the hospital TV.
When he goes on the show, he's no doubt prepared to kill himself, as per his rehearsal in his flat. But when he realises that Murray is as cold and uncaring as the rest of them and only wanted to bring Arthur on for ratings and to make fun of him, he sees red and blows him away.
That's true. I just wanted to argue that Arthur did not win the debate. He only won because he shot Murray on the head. We can't hear Murray's rebuttal any longer. Shooting your debate opponent on the head is not winning the debate.
shareThe true Joker from the comics is an irrational genius.
Batman is a rational genius.
If they're ever going to make a real Batman Joker movie, this has to be addressed in the characters.
Batman is a super advanced scientific ninja, Sherlock Holmes, level person. In all movies so far he is not a genius detective or inventor. What made him be like this is his drive to save people and perfect himself after his parents died.
Joker, he's an "unfunny" comedian who finds horrible ironies, gore, etc funny. He is also a genius inventory and scientist. His genius was likely kicked off by going completely crazy after getting his face and body mutilated by Batman.
SOME of that his been in the movies, but not enough.
Anyway, in this movie, he started as a sweet and childlike person. He took care of his mom, was really reserved, nice to people, trying his best to be something good, etc. As more and more bad things happened to him, the craziness came out, but then at the end the smartness because they real hate he had came forth and focused him. So, I think the jokes made no sense and looked stupid because he wasn't fully Joker yet but rather a confused angry person.
Plus, he really doesn't want to entertain by that point. He probably found it more rewarding to make people uncomfortable, which as Joker he becomes a master at.
It looked to me like his scribbles are just those of some one who scribbles random thoughts on paper due to past trauma. I've seen in children young adults and even a few adults of normal IQ and ability. When they stress out instead of venting to people or in cases where they don't have someone to vent to, they instead vent on paper all their disturbed thoughts in a little journal like book.
sharehis entire tone and demeanor was different
if i had to guess, i would think that was maybe the first scene filmed
When he put on the clown outfit and make up throughout the movie, he turns into someone else entirely. He shows more confidence, charisma and just seems all around more happy.
I would say it's the same thing when he becomes The Joker by the end of the movie. It's like he is changing his persona to become who he really feels he is on the inside.
He was showing multiple personalities after going off his meds. In the Murray interview he spoke in 3 different voices. Also remember that Arthur is an unreliable narrator and not everything we see is real. When his speech became more sophisticated, that may have been his imagination.
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