- There will not be an original creative mind involved again - every movie since the originals riff off them as templates ready made for production with some tweaks here and there. George Lucas was a serious inventor and intellectual.
George Lucas openly riffed and remixed the Flash Gordon from his childhood. He sought the license for Flash Gordon in the years before Star Wars because that's what it was going to be instead. When he couldn't get the license, he started changing the story so it looked different and had different names. He didn't have to change it much, because Flash has space ship battles, a moving weaponized planet capable of destroying other planets, a princess, an Emperor, etc.
Even the opening scroll is taken right from the Flash serials:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnOL8Fx3Tvc&t=24s
Yes that's super original and inventive and intellectual, right?
Kids these days even slam Disney for selling Star Wars toys, yet Lucas specifically took lower royalties for Star Wars so that he could keep the merchandising rights, and that's what made him so rich.
"Letting the past die" and "kill it if you must" should not include complete blindness to the past.
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Keith4832 (110)
7 years ago
During the making of the original trilogy, he combined ideas from the "Flash Gordon" serial, "The Hidden Fortress", "Buck Rogers" serial, "The Fighting Devils Dogs" serial, " Once Upon a Time in the West", "Lost Horizon", "The Dam Busters" to name a few motion picture media. He was also influenced by a host of historical and literary sources like Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces", the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy by JRR Tolkien, Isaac Asimov's concept of a galactic empire appearing in his "Foundation" books, Arthurian mythology, Frank Herbet's "Dune", and possible influence of the comicbook series saga by Jack Kirby called "New Gods" (appeared from 1971 to 1975); historically you have the World War 2, Vietnam War, Roman Empire, ancient Eastern philosophy and ancient Middle East culture. So quite a range of interests and ideas from that collection of sources. Having studied a range of similar subjects myself I can attest to the amount of detail and deeply interesting subjects and concepts that can be found in those areas that Lucas was drawn towards.
Seeking to emulate these influences is not necessarily a bad thing. Clearly it was not a mundane copying and combination process that resulted in the original trilogy.
Yeah, Lucas was concerned that he wouldn't be able to continue making the films so struck a deal that was attractive to the studio and left him an avenue to obtain needed funds as well as possibly make other films. He was certainly very successful as a result of those decisions as you say. Merchandising became very important early on - when you think about it every action figute or mug or lunch box is an advertisement and a reminder about the movie, not merely fun objects that run on consumer desire.
Yeah, never forget the past because it provides context. Again, however, Lucas with some editorial help from his movie buddies created something quite interesting unlike these days where recycling is the main game.
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Frogarama (12942)
7 years ago
Good point about the toys as advertising, considering Star Wars was not the modern juggernaut we now have.
I still take issue with you helping to expand the point about recycling old ideas, which is practically the root of all storytelling, but yet saying "unlike these days where recycling is the main game." To elevate influence as an art (which it is) while simultaneously pointing out influence as a weakness is very odd.
Yes, there is a pretty fine line between influence and theft, not to mention a somewhat subjective line.
Also, regarding context... Lucas and his peers were at a time in motion picture history when they COULD be more inventive. These days it's a bit difficult to be inventive and daring and new, considering how much has been already done in film.
There's a reason why so many huge filmmakers came from that time period. They were in the right places at the right time. Lucas was buddies with Spielberg, Coppola, De Palma, Scorcese, and others.
Compare all this to live theater, which is still big business. Where is all the inventiveness and creativity? Theater has been around even longer, so it's pretty rare to see anything truly new and unique. Even the stuff Hamilton got famous for doing was nothing new, just remixed in a successful way and making it entertaining.
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Keith4832 (110)
7 years ago
By recycling I mean mundane duplication. As I've found lately this is often the case because productions don't invest in originality for one reason or another - it's not storytelling to steal popular motifs and art or even closely model scenes or cliches ultimately to conform or look good or compete with other films. You notice these things when you've seen a lot of media.
A story can have similar themes to another, regale us about the same characters or adapt stories but you know when several elements line up together and someone is trying to exploit the success of another (without attribution). B-grade movies are notoriously known for this but many big budget films are also guilty.
It's certainly hard now because "it's all been done", I agree. We're not seeing a lot of inventiveness. It might take an impetus from the literary world or something that occurs in real life that has significant ramifications in some area for inspiration in the arts world to occur.
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Frogarama (12942)
7 years ago
Oh and let me just add: It was still pretty cheap blatantly stealing the iconic opening scroll for Flash Gordon and turning it into "the iconic opening scroll for Star Wars." Borrowing and influence is one thing, but that was just cheap.
That scroll style was well known to old Flash Gordon fans in 1977. When that came onscreen, it was basically a message to other fans that this is a new version of Flash Gordon with a new name.
If someone did something similar today and co-opted something so iconic, I bet money you'd label it lazy recycling, if not outright theft. If someone else decided to take it from Star Wars and use it for a new fantasy-sci-fi saga, I bet you'd cry foul.
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Keith4832 (110)
7 years ago
Example of Flash Gordon text scroll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ihQCcqFAY
"Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe" was the second and last instance in which it was used in a Flash Gordon serial. The studio Universal introduced scrolling text for serials in 1938:
"Exposition of what led up to the previous episode's cliffhanger was usually displayed on placards with a photograph of one of the characters on it. In 1938, Universal brought the first "scrolling text" exposition to the serial, which George Lucas first used in Star Wars in 1977 and then in all of the following Star Wars films. As this would have required subcontracting the optical effects, Republic saved money by not using it." (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_film )
Omgosh! Scrolling text in other serials from the same period! -
"The Green Hornet Strikes Again": https://youtu.be/aDKUgLkvNQE?list=PLeCRINwoI8VYA5HNmf4F8cVj8J3rxKEC7
"Buck Rodgers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp8Py-ENZgA
"Sky Raiders": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_cvpnG-4Nc
So, it can be said that scrolling text was a studio convention applied to several serials and by no means a signature device unique (or intended to be unique) to Flash Gordon films.
There was a lot of strategic cost cutting and duplication in the days of Flash Gordon serials just as there is recycling left, right and centre in films today:
"The major studios had their own retinues of actors and writers, their own prop departments, existing sets, stock footage, and music libraries. The early independent studios had none of these, except for being able to rent the sets of independent producers of western features.
The firms saved money by reusing the same cliffhangers, stunt and special effect sequences over the years. Mines or tunnels flooded often, even in Flash Gordon, and the same model cars and trains went off the same cliffs and bridges. Republic had a Packard limousine and a Ford Woodie station wagon used in serial after serial so they could match the shots with the stock footage from the model or previous stunt driving. Three different serials had them chasing the Art Deco sound truck, required for location shooting, for various reasons. Male fistfighters all wore hats so that the change from actor to stunt double would not be caught so easily. A rubber liner on the hatband of the stuntman's fedora would make a seal on the stuntman's head, so the hat would stay on during fight scenes." (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_film )
Flash Gordon eventually was remade in 1980...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OROLRvKamdE
Very entertaining trailer, passable movie, hip music of the period.
However, no sequels were made unlike Star Wars which continues to this day. So Star Wars is the better "Saturday matinee" adventure story of the two. Star Wars is the movie "serial" of today or one of many given the success of Marvel movies for example. But serialisation in the form of sequals risks dumbing down the original films and interesting concepts of each narrative.
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Frogarama (12942)
7 years ago
"Omgosh! Scrolling text in other serials from the same period! -"
Okay, I definitely didn't realize it was one of those "everyone was doing it" things. Thanks for sharing.
But Lucas was still open about seeking to make Flash Gordon, and when he couldn't get the license, he changed the story and characters slightly into Star Wars, and added more influences from other properties.
The story he wanted to adapt is seriously very similar to A New Hope, including Mongo being a traveling weaponized planet ran by Emperor Ming, Flash heads to Mongo with Dale and Dr. Zarkov (Leia and Kenobi) to stop Ming from destroying Earth. Flash of course is a simple young guy from Earth who gets wrapped up in these galactic wars... in the stars.
In other serials, there is a cloud city, there is a part where Flash and Prince Barin (Han Solo) dress up in the outfits of Ming's soldiers to sneak around without being caught. Prince Thun is a lion man and an ally of Flash, very similar to Chewbacca. There's a lot of material in the serials and comics obviously, since they went on so long.
If the internet existed in 1977, you can bet money that Flash Gordon fans would be calling A New Hope a ripoff. So many OVERLY VOCAL people couldn't handle the intentional homage of The Force Awakens, deciding to spend the last 2 years slamming it with extreme language like "a shot for shot remake" of A New Hope. That is hilariously far from the truth, but I still saw the sentiment over and over and over since December 2015.
Personally, I respect influence and I am also a screenwriter, so I have plenty that can be pitched as "X meets Y." I'm submitting an animated sci-fi to a screenplay contest this month, and the movie is definitely "A Bug's Life meets Independence Day."
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