MovieChat Forums > Perry Mason (2020) Discussion > Pretentious woke writers

Pretentious woke writers


Do we really need an entire unnecessary sub-plot of Della Street and her lesbian dramas that have nothing whatsoever to do with the main plot. Is it suppose to be a gay soap opera?. And i don't have a problem with Paul Drake being black but it doesn't make any sense for a show set in the 50's. These adjustments would make sense in a modern setting. But for a show set in the 50's It's just shoehorning modern ideologies into an era where it feels out of place. I wish they would ban woke writers from the writing room. Then i wouldn't have to fast forward so much.

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Gay people exist. Get over it.

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No problem with it but judging by your response i'm wondering if intelligent people exist. It's blatantly obvious from my post that that's not at all my issue so your response doesn't make any sense. It's not Della being gay that i take issue with it's the amount of story line they waste on it. It has nothing to do with the plot. It's just obnoxious woke writers writing for the sake of themselves instead of the sake of the story. I would say the same for Drake being black which in the 1950's isn't very realistic for that era.

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No one but right wing morons say "woke" and try to disguise it as legitimate criticism.

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Woke is a legitimate term used for the medias extreme over obsession with silly inane things like colors, genders and sexualities. Della being gay and the subplot about it is entirely unimportant to the story. In fact i could fast forward past all of the Della gay sub plot and not miss a beat with the story. It's shoehorned in for the sake of woke culture.

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Woke is a dumb buzzword invented on Twitter that no one said 2 years ago. And diversity isn't anything new.

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Diversity isn't woke. Sense8 was a very diverse show. One that i happened to like. but it wasn't woke by any means because they didn't exploit that diversity by over emphasizing it's importance to the story like their doing with Della.

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Literally none of you fools here whining about the term "woke" have the slightest idea what it means. The term has actually been around in African-American communities since the '70s----it actually originated as the term, "Stay woke". It was brought to the mainstream by young black activists who started the first BLM protests and marches back in 2014. All the term "woke" means is to be aware of social injustice going on around you, and in the world in general. That is literally all the hell it means. Which you would know had you bothered to actually take five minutes to research the history of the term. No, you millenials didn't invent it----it's been around since before you were born. But it's been hijacked and twisted around by the right-wing as a blanket stem for literally anything they don't understand, or anything they don't like---which is anything on the left, or whenever people of color call out racism that some white people do.

And yes, diversity is "woke" in the sense that its main goal is to make sure that people of color get represented in any area of work or life that they have virtually no representation in. That's all it is, yet some white people have a problem with that simply because they're used to dominating nearly every damn thing in American society---which white people did, in fact, do--up until the mid-20th century. Apparently some people don't understand what diversity is either----they need to look that up too. Most of my favorite recent TV shows have been remarkably diverse, such as Grey's Anatomy, and the now-gone New Amsterdam, and This Is Us, the Rookie cop franchise on ABC, and the FBI franchise on CBS. It's made these shows much more interesting, and even better, because they simply make it a point to represent society as it actually looks now. No big deal there.

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"Woke" has been around since early 2000's. But being uninformed is my expectation of you based on your previous posts.

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It was coined by a black people and co-opted by the right. Is that right?

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So you Googled after being called out on your inaccurate statement "dumb buzzword invented on Twitter that no one said 2 years ago."? What a sideways confession, but typical.

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So you knew that it doesn't mean what the far right turned it into in the past couple of years, right?

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You just keep proving you're informed, but can't admit. Sad.

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it's been 9 months. I don't know what the hell you're talking about nor do I give AF

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But what is the story of Della as laid out in the books. She’s not married. Never will get married and she’s not ever supposed to be with Perry. So what are we supposed to see. Never ending pursuit for the perfect guy and family which she wasn’t interested in. Or a bf that nags her endlessly for putting too many hours at the job. Not having dinner on the table. Being too ambitious. If that happened, that’s when I would fast forward. What was Della’s backstory supposed to be in this HBO series? There is nothing to suggest that the character described in the books was ever usurped in something counter to her nature.

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I'm all for giving the actress something to work with and giving the character depth so long as it gels with the main story arc in a natural cohesive way. But taking long winded time outs for Della's gay adventures is just pretentious and in no way gels with the main arc. Masons back story adds to the story and his motivations as a character. Della's is a completely stand alone arc that distracts from the main story.

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I agree. Very long winded. Not because she’s gay or he’s straight but because they’re BOTH boring and more than enough. So the problem isn’t that Della is gay, it’s something to do with the storytelling. The script. The chemistry. The casting. The direction. Or is it one episode a week! The backstories of any of the leads are not interesting so far. I like Kirk’s Burger tho.

And yet I felt the same for S1 at the time UNTIL I saw all the episodes in totality the second time. I think I might have to do the same for S2. It is somewhat diminished seeing it weekly. It’s very much like a Chinatown which is why it is so good.

I like Rhys. There is no chemistry between Della and Perry. And I don’t mean sexual. Justin Kirk and Shea Wigham are great. The LA scenes are fantastic. If this series worked, it wouldn’t have mattered if Della was gay because I guarantee you she is in the closet in 1934. 90 yrs ago. But Perry was always smitten with Della and asked her to marry many times. She wanted to work and therefore couldn’t marry. Sign of the times. It’s also just after the stock market crash so having a job was huge for her. I would have liked to see Perry enamored with Della but Della having a secret life.

This is a different series. Della has more going on here. And thank god. If you read the books, she’s really a girl Friday. I have to wait until the end of S2 to make an assessment. I think you’re focusing on a thing that is moot.

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So what if they exist? Why do we have to be forced to see them on TV. Let them have their own shows like 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy' and the 'L word' or even 'Euphoria'. This way if someone is interested they can watch that. If I want to watch Perry Mason however, I'm not interested in seeing them.

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So you only want to watch something with only straight characters? I'm sure you can find something to your liking.

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Yes. I want all mainstream shows to have straight characters with rare exceptions. In addition, I want shows that are specifically made for the Alphabet people so they have something that represents them too. In this scenario, everyone can choose what they want to watch and how much they want to see. In the current paradigm, I am forced to watch Alphabet people doing Alphabet things in shows where they don't belong.


Wokeness is cancer
Terminating Wokies is more than a job — it's a passion.

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Ok, boomer.

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This is your contribution to the discussion? Really? Seems I've stumbled across a waterheaded idiot. Is that what is happening here? Say it ain't so Argentinian.

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>Wokeness is cancer
Terminating Wokies is more than a job — it's a passion.

------------

I'm sorry I'm not up to your intellectual level, Terminator.

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I commend you on your self-awareness and capacity for introspection.
We can't all be winners.

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Talk about using an expression that was created and passe two years ago.

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And yet the actor who played Perry Mason all those years was gay. Raymond Burr. I don’t think this is woke. So, is it Della then that you have problems? Because in the books, Gardner didn’t have it either way. Della definitely wasn’t married. Gardner hated when they paired Mason and Della together. “Della Street, the hard-working legal secretary who is Perry’s most intimate companion but not his girlfriend.”

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Yeah, but the character wasn't gay and we didn't have to know about Raymond Burr's personal life. I don't remember him asking everyone to affirm his identity.
And yes my problem is with Della. She could have been straight and in a heterosexual relationship. This was the norm. Now TV shows go out of their way to show the fringe, the abnormal. I'm tired of seeing it.

We need to stop all the diversity, inclusion, and representation and bring back some homogeneity, exclusion, and representation of the majority.

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Della never marries. And she is never with Perry. And she doesn’t have kids. She’s ambitious and likes her freedom and career. She’s ahead of her time. Read the books. Understand how Garner created her. A relationship with a guy wouldn’t work. He’d be a potted plant.

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That's fine. Then why would they give her a relationship with a woman in the show? Why isn't she just alone?
It's to shove representation down our throats. The woke degenerates that have taken over the entertainment industry feel the need to virtue signal how woke they are and as a result we now have to have Alphabet people shoehorned in into everything even if they don't belong there.

I agree with you that she is not the kind of woman who would settle down with a man, so she should just be an independent woman. There is no need to make her a lesbo.

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Good idea. Alone.

An independent woman shouldn’t mean alone. But maybe with some cats. She could have meaningful discussions. Why didn’t the writers think of that? How I miss seeing her alone now that you mention it.

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Well yeah, you got to have a pet. Although, I kind of like her as a dog person. I don't know, I could go either way.

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The Power of the Dog.

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So, not married, no kids, not Perry's girlfriend = lesbian.

Okay.

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Not according to this guy. She’s just supposed to be alone with a dog.

So an actor who is gay can play a straight character. Why can’t a gay woman play a straight secretary.

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"And yet the actor who played Perry Mason all those years was gay."

Which was totally irrelevant. The actor was also not an attorney. As convincingly portrayed by Raymond Burr, Perry Mason was a straight-as-an-arrow attorney.

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The point was to the poster not the character or the actor. This poster - inquiring mind- guy or woman hates to watch anyone who is gay. But not one who is in the closet. But I can guarantee you if most people knew Burr was gay at the time, he would not have been able to play Mason. Hindsight it’s apparently ok for inquiring mind and you. I don’t know too many males who are opposed to seeing two women together. So I find that odd in itself. And this is HBO so it’s no holds bar.

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"But I can guarantee you if most people knew Burr was gay at the time, he would not have been able to play Mason"

True. Unfortunately he would never have been hired. Not back then. I really don't give a rats ass about the sexuality of the characters or actors for that matter unless it's relevant to the story in some way. But thus far Della's sexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with the story. And their taking large chunks of scenes to explore this unimportant aspect of her character.

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If it was done interesting and done better, you wouldn’t have cared. Is really what you’re saying?

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If it was relevant to the story or her character motivation in the story i wouldn't care. But it's not. If they really cared about giving the character depth then they would explore other aspects of her personal life such as family or past like they did with Perry. Instead they just keep hammering home the gay thing. We get it shes gay. no one cares. move on.

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This series is set in the ‘30s. And in case you didn’t know where, it’s LA.

Did you ever see/read Lillian Hellman’s Children’s Hour written in 1934?

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Sorry thought it was the 50's. No never read it. Honestly i couldn't care less that Della is gay. It's just the emphasis the writers put on it. If Della being gay has absolutely nothing to do with the main plot then why waste my time on a drawn out subplot about her love life. I'm personally watching for the story. Not to get the writers take on gay culture in the 30's.

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Actually, the TV series was in the ‘50s. So it’s easy to get confused.

The writers did a great job with this new series. But, I too, wish there were more trial scenes. They must come at the end. In the novels, there is very little of Mason’s private life. There is no mention of a wife or family or anything he did before being a lawyer. Della has nothing going for her as well, which kind of hinted that they might have had a romantic relationship. But in this case, I can’t see this Perry with this Della. We see Perry have sex with gal at the dairy farm. Kind of acrobatic. So it’s not much of a stretch to see Della in tender intimate moments. This is HBO, so there’s nudity. During this time period, a woman not married raised a lot of red flags - either no man wanted them or they wanted no man or they’re Greta Garbo. The Della and Hamilton Burger friendship is a really good idea. Plus, Della wants a legal career.

Children’s Hour is a play about two single female schoolteachers who reprimand a child and that child tells this story that insinuates them as being gay. It ruins the teachers’ lives and one commits suicide. It was written in the 30s. It was made into a movie twice. In the ‘30s and in the ‘60s.

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Exactly, it has nothing to do with the case or anything else. It's just shoehorned in.

To be honest I didn't mind seeing Della's nice figure, but I'd rather they didn't waste my time and just get on with the story. It's slow enough already.

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It's set in the 30's not the 50's. Edit: Oh someone already pointed that out my bad. I think the Della stuff is done well, it doesn't bother me, but seeing as how we only get 8 eps a season maybe they could focus more on the crime and justice aspect. I'd like to see multiple well written and witty courtroom scenes and not just one small and one big throughout the whole season.

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Yea that was pointed out already. My mistake.

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How do we know Della’s girlfriend is not involved in the main plot? I have this lingering suspicion she is playing Della and is in cohorts with that father of the dead guy/gangster/corrupt guy.

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Good point. Or even Hope Davis role. But at this point, with it being soooo slow and just one episode a week, I’m going to have to watch it from the beginning because I’m just lost. And I’m thinking maybe this series should have been done differently with the actual cases of the original novels. Maybe with a twist. I love that this is in The ‘30s because LA was really naughty during this time. This plot reminds me so much of LA Confidential which was in the ‘50s and not really like the Perry Mason novels which were more like Nero Wolfe with Archie Goodwin. I wanted to wait before saying anything until the end. I’m hoping for a lot of court scenes in the last two eps and I hope it is magnificent lawyering on Perry’s part.

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"How do we know Della’s girlfriend is not involved in the main plot? I have this lingering suspicion she is playing Della and is in cohorts with that father of the dead guy/gangster/corrupt guy."


Well put Where!!!

We definitely share the same suspicion. Remember what she said to Della when she took her to PALM SPRINGS ... where she told her if she picked up anything she'd find MGM written on the bottom of it ... cas everything there was a MOVIE PROP???

I'm thinking after Della moves her things into the place where this other character claims to live, one day she'll wake up to find the woman's clothes are missing. And then Della will also pick up something and find MGM written upon the bottom of everything else in the place.

In other words, Della will have been DUPED, just like PERRY was by the other guy who broke into his place and his office, and then told the cops that Perry had the murder weapon inside of his safe.

Plus the other guy got played before coming back to work for Perry again where he may have also been FORCED to murder the other guy who wore the CANVAS SHOES.

In other words, the ONGOING THEME of the ENTIRE 2ND SEASON has basically been about "BETRAYAL," which also makes the DELLA PLOT "INTEGRAL" to the MAIN PLOT.

in·te·gral
ADJECTIVE
necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental:


Which would also mean "Della being gay has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with the main plot" due to the way in which the woman who seduced her was most likely also HIRED to do so (the same way as the other GAY DA character was also BLACKMAILED by someone who took pictures of him with his lover).

And the lack of imagination on the part of certain posters here who fail to see that kind of a possibility is also quite astounding. Either they've never studied LITERATURE before or maybe they were sleeping or otherwise preoccupied during the time when they were supposed to be paying attention???

What's clear enough is The problem isn't with the WRITERS, but with the "NARROW MINDED OPINIONS" of certain posters who view the show.

🙄





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I am so happy you wrote this incredible post and also Where’s very insightful theory on Della and her love. In the spirt of the noir thriller and the femme fatale, wouldn’t it be perfect that the major love story be that of a true betrayal. I did call it with the Hope Davis character - so that is something we will see later. I wanted to wait until I saw the last episode to answer this guy’s original post (but seeing yours - decided to say something). His topic and reasoning are so thoughtless and narrow-minded and sabotages any artistic writing not to mention perpetuates as to why Raymond Burr was in the closet. Somehow even if this love story is relevant to the plot, and technically it doesn’t have to be, as all the other relationships are not - but even it it is, this poster will alternatively say - do we have to see two women in a lesbian naked love scene. That’s where his mind is. To your point, “They never studied literature before” and more.

This series seems slow bc of the once a week thing but it is layered. I had to view again from the first episode to this last one - the 7th - to realize how good this series is. To try and compare it to Gardner’s books or to the ‘50s tV show doesn’t do it justice. The comparison to Chinatown is strong - where you have LA bringing water to the valley and making a fortune - this one is about exporting oily fruit shipments to Japan which spells treason. I can’t wait for this finale.

Thank you for your great post.

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And Thank you for your very insightful post letess. It's such a pleasure to find others like yourself who aren't constantly posting the same kind of BORING MONOTOUS messages here claiming that something is "WOKE" when it's obvious how the person who posts them has NO CLUE whatsoever what GOOD WRITING involves or how to tell a good story.

Since ON DEMAND isn't working again, and the DVR is full, I also spent yesterday watching the MARATHON session of the show, and that also made it VERY EASY to see the ongoing THEME of BETRAYAL (whereas that's also not as clear to see whenever one watches an episode each week).

And since I'd also already seen the next to last episode, where they discover the smuggled OIL is being sent to JAPAN (who's busy attacking Korea and other countries), that knowledge also made the rest of the show make more sense than if one didn't already realize what's going on.

In other words, like the case is with you, I'm also looking forward to watching the SEASON FINALE.



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"It's such a pleasure to find others like yourself who aren't constantly posting the same kind of BORING MONOTOUS messages here claiming that something is "WOKE" when it's obvious how the person who posts them has NO CLUE whatsoever what GOOD WRITING involves or how to tell a good story."

Hypocrite much, you pretentious fnck? If anything is BORING MONOTOUS, it's folks like you dismissing any criticism as people just being too stupid to understand.

This show was woke shit and that's why it was canceled. Period.

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Della was not gay in the books and Drake was not black. If they wanted to do a tv show about a lawyer in the 30s with a lesbian assistant and a black associate, they should've come up with their own shit.

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That would require having an original thought. Why do the work to create something new and interesting when you can just take the easy road and hijack someone else's hard work and rewrite it to fit their cringy agenda.

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"That would require having an original thought."

Too much to ask of Hollywood writers, I know.

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