MovieChat Forums > 13 Reasons Why (2017) Discussion > If you get wasted, you are partly respon...

If you get wasted, you are partly responsible if you get raped.


It's not "blaming the victim." Smart people don't willingly put themselves into dangerous situations. First of all, the drinking age is 21, not 15. That's for a reason. Kids are already stupid when they are sober. You want to make yourself EXTRA stupid? Second, rapists exist in the world. Don't people realize this? Why would you put yourself at risk by drinking yourself into a stupor at a party with a bunch of boys, some of whom are known to be untrustworthy idiots? Then, why would you go to the party thrown by a guy who you just saw rape someone? This is like the reverse Darwin Awards. The stupid end up getting impregnated for being stupid and then we have to deal with their equally moronic kids. I guess after the inevitable suicides, it sorta balances out, though.

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My question is: can you educate someone into not being a rapist?

People that are rapist are mostly just sick people. You have to be a sociopath to have sex with someone without their consent.

This is my I don't understand when people say: "we need to stop focusing only on educating women on preventing rape and focusing on teaching men not to rape".

I don't think you can teach a person not to rape.

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I agree with the Boricanator. It's like trying to teach a Lion not to eat you. Good luck. There are rapists out there. If you want to reduce your odds of getting raped, be smart, stay sober at gatherings and if you find yourself at the home of a known rapist, stay out of the hot tub (unless you secretly crave being raped.)

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Are you saying you believe rapists are born rapists?

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It doesn't matter if rapists are born that way or if they become that way. They will always exist. Everyone knows it's a crime, yet it ALWAYS happens. Why not take smart steps to lower the odds? If a girl is told that rape is something that is never partly her fault, she will live her life thinking her actions are inconsequential to anything bad that ever happens to her. She will have a victim mentality for life. She should live life by not being a dumbass. It's an empowering approach.

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It matters a great deal. If one believes rapists are born (nature) versus become rapists due to their raising and environment (nurture), then that argument has merit. If not, it doesn't.

If you actually watched the show, and got anything out of it, you'd know that rape, while a crime, is vastly underreported, because there's so much shame involved on the victim's part. Not to mention, historically victims have been blamed, which makes them even less likely to report it.

Conviction rates are also low, in part because it's a difficult crime to prove, which is another reason why it's such an underreported crime.

"If a boy is told that rape is something for which he will not be held accountable, he will live his life thinking his actions are inconsequential. He will have a predator's mentality for life. He should live life by not being a dumbass."

See how that works?

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The answer is most likely a combination of both. It doesn't change a thing. If an underage girl goes to a party and commits the crime of drinking herself into a stupor, do you think she has MORE of a chance or LESS of a chance of being raped?

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I doubt very much it's a combination of both, and quite obviously it changes a lot.

If a boy (underage or not) goes to a party and drinks himself into a stupor (which is not a crime, BTW), do you think he has more or less of a chance of being raped?

It's not only girls/women who get raped, you know, and almost certainly those statistics are even lower. There's a great deal of shame involved with females being raped, and a lot more so with males being raped -- usually raped by other males.

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If a boy gets drunk he could get raped, I suppose. But he can't get knocked-up, which takes a lot of the consequences away. He may wake up with a tender bottom but he won't be saddled with a rape baby. I suggest everybody obey the drinking laws. It's really quite simple. Everybody knows that rape is a crime and frowned upon but underage drinking is mostly accepted.

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There's no suppose about it; he could get raped as easily as a girl.

Pregnancy and paternity is an entirely different subject. Fortunately that IS something that can now be easily proven with DNA tests, and the father held -- at least financially -- accountable.

You're vastly minimizing rape. It's a violent, very personal, and humiliating assault, one that usually leaves scars for a lifetime. It's MUCH more than "may wake up with a tender bottom."

So you're suggesting everyone abide by the drinking laws as a solution. How realistic do you think that is? Yet you don't think educating boys about rape is worthwhile. Okay then.

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It's not "easy" to rape a boy. The anus cannot be easily entered. It is clenched up tight by nature. It takes cooperation from the individual receiving the phallus. Perhaps you have never engaged in anal intercourse or maybe you have a naturally loose anus but for the vast majority of biological creatures, our anuses can't be "easily" raped. But if yours can, I sympathize with you. That really sucks.

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Either you're trolling, or you're incredibly ignorant. Either way, we're done here.

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I am neither but I am happy to be done with you. On that we can both rejoice.

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@Cat

See my reply to Kewi_Kat re:the rape subject

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While it is more difficult to rape via anus, it certainly does still happen to both men and women. Rape is rarely solely about sex. It's about power. Whether or not someone has a "loose anus" as you put it has absolutely no bearing on if they will be raped. It also does not require cooperation and certainly can cause much more damage than just a tender bottom.



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You sure have a lot of ass knowledge, sslssg.

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Ok. You are just trolling. I thought that maybe you were just ignorant to some of the facts of rape, I was wrong.

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I am not trolling.

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I have to be a fool to put my two cents worth into this conversation. How I found this post subject is do to my perusing the subject matters being discussed. With that out of the way...I shall now reply to your (Kewi_Kat) comment:
"It's not "easy" to rape a boy. The anus cannot be easily entered."

My response is as follows: Tell that bit of info to the 11 month old baby, (yes, 11 months old) who was RAPED and murdered recently. There was so much internal damage done from the ANAL rape the child would never be "normal" if survived. Tell your info to the two year old victim of anal rape whose insides were completely destroyed...who also succumbed to the injuries. There are far to many babies and young children who will need surgeries throughout their lives to attempt repairing the damage...if they lived.

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A tiny, helpless baby and a strapping, muscular teenage boy are two different things. It seems like some people live in a totally different universe when I read some of these responses. We certainly are living in Trump's America. Everything has gone crazy.

My point was and is (to teenage females): stay sober, make smart decisions and reduce your odds of being raped. How are we now talking about baby rape??

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@Kewi_Kat

I will preface this with Thank God for Trump, even though I don't care for him personally. I will say no more. Except what in the he double hockey sticks does a "Trump America" have to do with the subject at hand? Oh, I get it...it's not Bush's fault anymore. Oh, well...

My response was directed at your detailed comments about a certain orifice in the human body. I do agree teenagers, not just females, need to change their ways. But, no one, no matter how inebriated he/she is deserves to be raped.

Culture has changed so drastically and not for the better. Young guys have lost respect for young women. Why? Because the young women have lost respect for themselves. They demanded to be equal. They didn't wish to be looked upon as the fairer sex. They frowned when a door was held open for them. They burned their bras! "I am woman...hear me roar" crap! Mores have become more coarse.

The female demanded to be included in male activities, to be fire? what are they called? PC won't permit the word firemen. They demanded to be police personnel, do the same job as the men. They demanded to be put in the same military units as the males even though it handicaps the elite forces. BTW, I would like to know how an average sized female fire fighter rescues a 250lb plus male. How an average sized female subdues a hefty male hell bent on doing harm. Women just don't get it...they are not as strong physically as males so most of the standards are lowered in order to qualify. We all lose then.

None of the above is an excuse for sexual assault. But, what has changed to cause the increase in rape and gang rapes? Loss of respect was the beginning. Young girls mature much sooner now. So many flaunt themselves while the male hormones are raging. I feel empathy for them...they don't know what to do, how to behave. Then as a group the pack mentality sets in.

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"Thank God for Trump"

What do you like best about him? The racism or sexism? Do you dream of him grabbing your genitalia?

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Read my reply again...I stated I don't care for him personally. But, do give a source where he is guilty of racism. He may be a bigot, which is not necessarily being a racist. Sexism...not! Permitting his daughter to run his businesses is one of many instances proving he's not sexist. Your last point doesn't deserve a response other than....I recall Bill Clinton.

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Trump's nepotism means he isn't a pussy-grabbing sexist? Sure thing.

Here is your Trump is a racist source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/10/07/if-you-need-more-proof-of-trumps-racism-consider-the-central-park-five/?utm_term=.42663c809400

Game, set, match. Kewl_Kat is the champion.

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Please don't respond to me with lewd language! I have been respectful of you...do the same for me!

Again, you are defining bigotry as rascism. Rascism has been thrown against the wall so much, how does one defend himself or herself? The "Archie Bunker" character in "All In The Family" was a BIGOT...not a racist. A parent may not want their child to marry a black or a white, but more than likely it's due to bigotry not racism.

To reiterate a person can be a bigot but not a racist. Then again a person can be a racist but not a bigot. Slavery was a racist stain in our history, but the "owners" (makes me ill to think about it) loved them as one would love a mule. Disgusting, isn't it? They weren't bigoted. They were proud of their property and looked upon them as sub-human. Racism for sure. Good Lord, just writing this is difficult. But, we can't keep using the word, Racism, so easily as it waters down the horrific history.

BTW, you referred me to an article to read, so turn about fair play. Here's one for you, I'm using an Ipad so I apologize for it not being a direct link. Please copy & paste:

http://www.breitbart.com/live/vice-presidential-debate-fact-check-livewire/fact-check-donald-trump-not-call-mexicans-rapists-criminals/

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Lewd language? Those are Trump's exact words. And I quote:

Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Bush: Whatever you want.

Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

So it's ok when the president says it but if I quote him, it's "lewd". Got it.

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I am not sure. I think many are. I've seen people that come from good and decent families do some really messed up things.

I don't pretend to be an expert. But when someone decides to rape, what goes through their minds? Can you really feel pleasure from having sex with someone without their consent? I know I couldn't.

Maybe these people are just wired genetically to enjoy sex without the other parties consent.

Again, I emphasize, I am not an expert.

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I find that funny with America that the drinking age is 21.. it's 18 in Australia and we have gun laws which work, yet in America get a gun at age 18? no worries just can't drink a beer till 21

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Many Americans are stoopid, though. We elected Trump to be our president, for goodness sake.

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In all seriousness though, this situation was quite contrived as far as it goes for the scene with Hannah, was done for TV obviously, but the fact she just went for a walk for a long time, and then happened to hear a party then happen to join that part and it happened to be Bryce's party, and that the people she knew was there. falls in place to neatly. This situation would never happened in the real world, if it was a random party with people she didn't know it would be more realistic. but hey it is made for TV.

I also felt she didn't try to fight Bryce at all. to get away. wouldn't any girls at least try and kick him in the nuts or something to get away?

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I found that scene idiotic. She knew she was at Bryce's house, didn't she? Why would she get in a rapist's hot tub?

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This is the logic Islamic extremists use when forcing women to completely cover their bodies...

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What is your point? That Hannah should be able to fearlessly enjoy a relaxing soak in a rapist's hot tub whenever she desires?

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Seriously, are we going to have to listen/read about this for four years? We put up with Obama for eight so give it a rest. BTW, I'm not stupid!

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For as long as that buffoon is in office, you will have to put up with it. There are consequences to your actions.

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Yes, there are consequences for one's actions. I don't believe this country will ever be able to rectify the damage done over the prior eight years.

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Ah yes, a brainwashed AM radio/FOX News watcher. A fully recovered economy and stock market, along with affordable health care options for all sure was “damaging.” Give it a rest. The people who feed you the propaganda that you so eagerly lap up are dirty weirdos (as evidenced by their recent firings.)

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You enjoy hurling insults, don't you. Believe what you will about Obamacare as it's collapsing on it's own sword. I would say let it alone to fail, but then those that may be receiving a benefit would be hurt. BTW, the premiums are skyrocketing, high deductibles which can't be met or doctors closing shop. This "affordable health care options for all sure was “damaging.” Yes, it was damaging. It affected all of us who had good health insurance then retired with the same insurance for the same premium. After the Obamacare mandates (I'm going to have a miracle birth!) our two premiums Medicare, (which pays a smidgen), and our retirement plan went from $1100 monthly to over $2000.00 monthly! Our plan included coverage for drugs, vision and dental. Of course, we couldn't afford the increase due to taking from our pocket to pay for the subsidies for people who have a much higher income than our retirement. We now pay for separate vision and dental. I have no drug plan ....deductible too high. Yep, those "affordable healthcare options" definitely helped us. NOT! BTW, insurance companies are pulling out of states, so where are those who receive the great Obamacare going to obtain coverage?

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The Affordable Care Act is only failing in the states that have leaders who want it to fail (people like you, who lack empathy). Medicaid expansion would take care of this problem, as it has in the majority of states.

http://kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid/

"Nationally, more than two and a half million poor uninsured adults fall into the “coverage gap” that results from state decisions not to expand Medicaid, meaning their income is above current Medicaid eligibility but below the lower limit for Marketplace premium tax credits. These individuals would have been newly-eligible for Medicaid had their state chosen to expand coverage."

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There you go again, hurling insults. You don't know me so don't judge me by saying I "lack empathy". Cradle to grave...the entitlement mentality. Could that be your way of thinking?

I'm not aware of your age, but I can recall when Medicare and "The War On Poverty" began in the '60's. FYI, nothing has changed for the better! People are still in poverty if not due to illness or impairment, but due to the hands outstretched while popping out one kid after another, or due to not having drive to do better, or just plain lazy! The Earned Income Tax Credit is yet another boondoggle. Do you know there are some who have calculated to the last penney how much they can earn in order to stay qualified for the EITC?

Since I detested the Medicare boondoggle to the nth degree, I did not want to sign up for it. It's wrought with fraud and pays diddly squat! I don't recall anyone being denied healthcare due to their finances before Medicare. If we were short on funds the good doctor would let us pay it out. Now you can't get past the front desk. I had doctors who for a fact charged Medicare a different fee (higher) than those who paid cash or had different insurance.

You speak how great Medicaid is. Do you know anyone who has Medicaid? I do and the service is horrible. For one thing there aren't enough doctors (if any choose to take patients) to care for those on Medicaid. If you want to see a good example of how great Medicaid expansion would be, look no further than the VA!

Do you realize the ER's are still full because the Obamacare premiums are too high or the deductible can't be met?
Obamacare also affected those who are still working. Sure they may have employer based insurance but yet again the deductibles are astronomical. I know a person with skin cancer who is paying out of pocket until the $4000 deductible is met! I've never had to meet such a high deductible while working. The Obamacare mandates are costing loss of jobs...why go over 49 employees? The mandates are asinine! Why should I pay for maternity? Then there are the employers who provided benefits, but due to the mandates it's either lay people off or in order to stay in business no longer provide the benefits.

I recall years ago someone stated to the effect of "Every time the government does something, it costs me. They take from my pocket to put into another's pocket." The government is holding a virtual gun to our heads and demanding more. Instead of your neighbor knocking on your door demanding you pay his medical bills, you permit the government to knock and do the demanding.

Today's news is reporting more insurance companies are pulling out of states leaving thousands uninsured. Many of those had employer based health insurance which was dropped due to Obamacare.

Obamacare...it's a wonderful thing...if you can get it, pay for it, locate a doctor, etc., etc.

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You are so fragile. I thought Republicans were supposed to be the anti-snowflakes. I guess that was another lie. Anyhow, if you don't want to be insulted, stop being a selfish jerk. People may even start complimenting you.

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Finally you respond! I have a suggestion for you since you can't handle the truth. You are unable to discuss the facts rationally so yet again you resort to insults. Oh, the suggestion? Look in the mirror. Surprise! The real jerk is looking back at you! If you are lucky...the mirror will crack.
Sayonara!

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Mirror Schmirror. There will be no cracking when I look at my reflection. I only use pools of water to look at my sexy reflection.

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STFU Lep.

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I agree OP. A lot of people want to say that no matter what you do, you don't deserve to be raped..which is absolutely true...no one deserves it. But what many people are forgetting is that we also need to be concerned with and take care of our own personal safety. Why is it so offensive to some to say we have a responsibility to ourselves for our safety and to make smart choices?

Would you wander down a dark alley at night, holding out your wallet and announcing how much money you have inside? Would you leave your vehicle unlocked in an unsafe area, or leave your purse open inside a car? Would you dangle a piece of meat in front of a lion and expect to not be eaten? No..you wouldn't, because you know those things aren't safe.

So why is it safe to get pass out drunk at parties where you don't know everyone? Why would it be okay to walk around half naked at night, while tipsy, in unfamiliar areas? Why would it be safe to be flirty and lead some strange guy on and make him think you're into him if you're not?

People owe it to themselves to make safe decisions and we should be responsible for our personal safety. No one deserves to be raped, but there are smart choices you can make to lower your chances.

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This situation has been happening for so long that a Russian proverb describes it perfectly - "If you drink Vodka, protect your Pilotka (pussy)"

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