MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Season 8 did make sense (spoilers)

Season 8 did make sense (spoilers)


Most of the complaining amounts to A) it didn't end like I wanted it to (boo-hoo), B) the characters' actions didn't fit the character (they did), C) character X should have killed character Y (instead of character Z doing it), or D) but the prophecy promised us a prince! (so what? prophecy is a crock.) Here are the main complaints I've heard:

1. "The Night King's motives were never explained." He's Death -- he wants to kill everyone. Not that hard to grasp.

2. "The Night King was supposed to be the Big Bad, but they finished him off in 1 episode." Not really, they fought him several times previously over multiple seasons. And just because he was a serious threat didn't mean he was the only Big Bad.

3. "Jaimie Lannister was a changed man! He had turned good and loved Ser Brienne! No way he would leave her to protect Cersei!" Really? He liked Brienne, but only slept with her when they were both drunk and he found out she was a virgin, and he wanted her first time to be with someone who cared about her and knew what he was doing. But he wasn't going to just let Daenerys kill his sister/only woman he ever loved.

4. "Daenerys wasn't a blood thirsty tyrant! She was good!" Except for the previous several seasons where she burned people alive, crucified people alive, and basically killed anyone in her path who didn't bend the knee. Were you not watching?

5. "Jon Snow should have killed the Night King! Arya should have killed Cersei!" Why? Did you not like the show when it was unpredictable? Wasn't that pretty much the main different thing about it?

6. "Arya wouldn't just give up on killing Cersei!" Really? Kings Landing was soon to be a smoldering ruin. Cersei was already a goner. Smart kid, leaving while she still could.

7. "Jon Snow was the Prince Who Was Promised! He should have ended up on the Iron Throne! He was a good man!" Yeah, and not very bright, and not interested in ruling. And because he was a good man, he did the right thing and offed a tyrant. After that, Dany's armies wouldn't accept him ruling Westeros. He's lucky they agreed to let him live in exile.



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I agree with most of it. Just adding a few things.

# 3 It's obvious that Jaime cared for and loved Brienne too, but he was passionately in love with Cersei. He was going to stay with Brienne until he realized the danger that Cersei placed herself, then it was no contest between the two women, he rushed to help Cersei.
Jaime was never fully redeemed. He became a better person around Brienne, but when he returned to Cersei, his true self always returned.

#4 Dany had her brother's personality: sociopath, cruel, narcissist, power hungry. The moment she gained a little power, it came out. I wonder now if she freed the slaves not because she cared about them, but to get people to support her as part of her strategy to gain power. A youtuber described her as a villain.

# 5 Arya was the best person to kill the Night King aka: Death because she spent a few seasons being trained by people who worshiped Death therefore she was the best person to kill him.

# 7 Jon was the Prince that was promised and he did gather people to vanquish a darkness (the Night King). It didn't say he would become king. Bran sent Jon to where he wanted to be, free with the Wildlings.
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I agree with your key points..
it has given them a little more depth and is the way that I see them too.

But the true nature of most disappointments lay in the rushed manner of these key points.
People may disagree on when it began to feel rushed but the last season is the worst offender and it made moments that should have been shocking or even touching less impactful.

Everything we had looked forward to and had been waiting on for years became anti climatic ...and that's disappointing.
But in the end most of it can make sense.

The issue with Daenerys is one point I'd always had in the back of my mind.
I remember a theory early on (even around the 2nd season) that she would be the ultimate villain and I always thought, if they dared to go that route, that in many ways it made the most sense.
Of all my disappointments in the final season... it still does.

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[deleted]

> Arya was the best person to kill the Night King aka: Death

While I agree that it was a good idea that Arya destroyed the Night King, I have to disagree with your (and the OP’s) "Night King = Death" equation. He was basically the END of death because no one would’ve died anymore but "only" turn zombie.
From the people’s point of view, that’s of course just as bad or even worse… but for people who worship the God of Death he’s the ultimate antagonist.

So it does make sense in my interpretation that Arya, trained by the Faceless Men, is the one to destroy the Night King. It also would explain why Jaqen H’ghar just let her go: Unknowingly, she still is on the mission to fulfill the Many-Faced God’s desires.

Of course, I may be wrong here – it’s just, like I said, my interpretation.

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Please explain the coffee cup and water bottles too.

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> Please explain the coffee cup and water bottles too.

"Movie Mistakes" happen in all kind of productions. The web is full of sites listing them, and they have happened before in Game of Thrones. Granted, the cup and the bottles are probably the worst mistakes they ever did, in early seasons they were more in the range of people switching positions between shots or revealing that a sword is made of rubber because it "wobbles".

So these two mistakes might indicate a drop in diligence they are in no way mistakes that were done storywise. (And yes, I agree that there WERE mistakes of that kind, too.)

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"1. "The Night King's motives were never explained." He's Death -- he wants to kill everyone. Not that hard to grasp."

WTF? did you even try on this one?

"2. "The Night King was supposed to be the Big Bad, but they finished him off in 1 episode." Not really, they fought him several times previously over multiple seasons. And just because he was a serious threat didn't mean he was the only Big Bad."

Um...so who was the big bad? The Drunken Lady who died pathetically under a pile of rubble? Euron Greyjoy? The Dragon Queen who only turned bad in the last 5 seconds? The tagline of the serious was "Winter is Coming", which was always a reference to the White Walkers.

"3. "Jaimie Lannister was a changed man! He had turned good and loved Ser Brienne! No way he would leave her to protect Cersei!" Really? He liked Brienne, but only slept with her when they were both drunk and he found out she was a virgin, and he wanted her first time to be with someone who cared about her and knew what he was doing. But he wasn't going to just let Daenerys kill his sister/only woman he ever loved."

Except he already left Cersei. There was no motivation or critical change of circumstances that would have made him change his mind and go back to her. It was shit writing at its worst. Just so that they could both die pathetically under a pile of rubble and wrap up the last episode. No other reason.

"4. "Daenerys wasn't a blood thirsty tyrant! She was good!" Except for the previous several seasons where she burned people alive, crucified people alive, and basically killed anyone in her path who didn't bend the knee. Were you not watching?"

Every single character in GoT has been ruthless at some point. Sansa had Ramsay ripped to pieces by dogs. She had little Finger's throat cut. John Executed had a 13 year old boy hanged. Arya murdered an entire house and baked them into a pie. I could go on and on. Danary's never killed INNOCENTS. You are being ludicrous.

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"# 5 Arya was the best person to kill the Night King aka: Death because she spent a few seasons being trained by people who worshiped Death therefore she was the best person to kill him."

The Night King is not, and never was even suggested to be "Death" until episode 3 of Season 8. He was once a man. We were shown this. Stop being silly.

"# 7 Jon was the Prince that was promised and he did gather people to vanquish a darkness (the Night King). It didn't say he would become king. Bran sent Jon to where he wanted to be, free with the Wildlings."

You are not even making a justification here. Just some random sentence about bran sending him to the Wildings, as if that justifies the shit writing somehow.
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A voice of reason. At last!

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I do agree with these points, but my main beef is not that the season ended the way it did, but that it rushed itself to get there. I'm in the process of rewatching the show from the beginning, and I just saw the episode where Talisa tells Robb that she's pregnant. In the "Inside the Episode" afterwards, D&D talk about how these quiet scenes between characters are just as critical to the advancement of the plot as the big action sequences (if not more so), because of what we learn about the characters and their relationships with each other. That was one of the reasons why - in my opinion, you are free to disagree - the best episode of Season 8 was #2. It was full of all those scenes.

But with the exception of S8E2, the last two seasons cut out a lot of those quiet moments, and the result is an ending that didn't seem to match how the plot or characters had been developed up to that point.

Case in point: Arya changing her mind about Cersei. On horseback, it would probably take about 6-8 weeks to travel from Winterfell to Kings Landing (2500 mile distance, at 5 mph - a fast walk for a horse - and approximately 10 hours of travel a day). And at no point are we ever shown anything during those 6-8 weeks that shows her and the Hound talking about how dangerous revenge can be. Instead, the show waits until they were both in the middle of the Red Keep to have one conversation that changes her mind just like that. Arya has wanted Cersei dead since Lady and Ned were killed. For her to just say, "Ok," and turn around and leave the way she does fails her character. It's not that she changes her mind. It's that it only takes 30 seconds of "You don't want to end up like me, do you?" to get her to do it.

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I agree, it would’ve been better if the Hound had talked her out of it during their road trip. But jeez, they had to rush everything.

And, out of curiosity: Did they really ever mention the exact distance between Winterfell and King’s Landing? If so, I missed that.

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No, that was a guesstimate on my part. I based it off how far we know Kings Landing is to Castle Black (3000 miles) and how long it takes people to travel between Winterfell and Castle Black.

Actually, come to think about it, it may even be more than 2500 miles. That would make it 500 miles from Winterfell to Castle Black, and at the same rate of speed (5 miles an hour, 10 hours a day), it would take 10 days to go that distance by horse, and it seems like characters move more quickly than that.

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The building was collapsing and Cersei was in it. A large part of what convinced Arya was the fact that anyone in the building was going to die including Cersei. The Hound made sense when he said Cersei was going to die anyway therefore it wasn't necessary for Arya to do it.

The Hound was going to end his life in pursuit of his revenge. His was a wasted and damaged life. Younger people tend to be more optimistic about their futures and and want more out of life. I could see Arya looking at The Hound in his final moments and not wanting to end up like him. It doesn't always take a lot of time to convince someone to change their course if the truth is there.

Another thing is that Cersei was pregnant. I don't see Arya going through with it if she realizes that Cersei is pregnant. And Cersei would've begged for her baby's life.

Everyone agrees about the last two seasons being rushed. The show was never an action adventure. It needed those slower moments between characters. The book will fix it though.

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Point by point:

1 & 2: My objections to the NK's finish were purely in terms of drama and enjoyability. I was hoping they'd come up with something more clever and enjoyable than "...if you kill the head vampire", maybe some mystical revelation, but they used the cliché with no elaboration.

3: I can buy that Jamie wouldn't really change, but again, the end they gave him and his sister was dramatically unsatisfying. They just stood there and whined, there was no comeuppance or closure.

4: Up until this season, Danerys's use of brutality had been very calculated, with the one exception that she regretted later. Her usual pattern was to have the dragon kill one person or burn one ship in front of an audience, and then confidently accept the fealty of everyone who was watching. She had consistently been as merciful as a medieval warlord could be and maintain power (= not very), up until her last episode when suddenly she was acting like a different person with ONE episode of leadup to personality changes.

5: Making something unpredictable doesn't necessarily make it good.

6: I can actually buy Arya finally choosing life and the living, she's young enough to change. I was just annoyed with the whole pointless waking up to see the unnatural white horse thing, which sure looked like a metaphor for death. That pissed me off. And so did the lack of closure with the Death Cult back in Bravos, most Death Cults don't let people just walk away and choose life and the living, particularly if you've taken power from them.

7: I did hear a totally unverifiable rumor that GRRM had wanted Jon to be king and D&D pulled Bran out of their asses because they wanted to surprise the audience - see above about surprise for the sake of surprise not equaling good drama. But Jon's storyline ended with a huge feeling of letdown. Partly because that whole "Prince Who Was Promised" thing fell flat, and partly because he just wandered off with nobody expressing any emotion over it. It would have been much more satisfying if someone like Sam had said something like "You really did save the world, you know, you got people to fight, without you the Night's King would be sitting on the Iron Throne right now", as Jon went into exile. They could add something about eliminating threats from both fire and ice, and the ingratitude of people, but that would be cheesy. But satisfying if done right.

Thus endeth the point-by-point.

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Your retarded post is basically a bunch of strawman that noone should bother to even address directly. I didn't even read all of it because it was too stupid for me.

Now here are some reasons why season 8 didn't make any sense:

Why did the NK ride into the front lines, which is basically the only losing move he could do?

Why did the seasoned warriors and generals in winterfell decide to put their catapults on the frontlines and charge their cavalry on a frontal attack?

Why didn't Arya's neck instantly snap when grabbed by a being that has the arm strength to kill a dragon from a mile away?

Why didn't Danarys see a huge pirate fleet in a clean summer day from high up in the sky?

Why didn't these seasoned warriors and generals send scouts ahead like every marching army in history has done?

Why didn't the pirate fleet finish off the helpless armies who they sucessfully ambushed, and instead decided to kidnap one woman and let the armies swim to safety?

Why didn't Cersei order her ballistas to shoot at Drogon when she had him in range, if she had no intention to surrender?

That's just for starters. You can take your "oh you just didn't like the prophecy" strawman and blow it out your ass

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