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Here I am, I hate it! My reasons? Hmm... let me see... Ah, here they are:
https://moviechat.org/tt0120915/Star-Wars-Episode-I-The-Phantom-Menace/6200fe100d92a97371aff130/Unbelievable-displays-of-carelessness-and-laziness-by-George-Lucas
Feel free to dispute any of the points, and keep in mind that this list is by no means exhaustive.
I tried to read your thread, but I couldn't even get past point one.
1. When Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon arrive, the Trade Federation wants to give up the blocade because they don't want to confront the Jedi. That means they had... no plan for that option??? I think they should have expected that eventually the Jedi will be involved,
Of course Sidious was expecting the Jedi to get involved. He was relying on it. That was the whole point of the blockade in the first place. It's the entire point of the entire three movie trilogy. Are you kidding me with this?
This is a case of someone (you) thinking you're oh so very clever and have some sort of deep analysis and critique, when in fact you fall flat right out of the gate. It is literally the intent and purpose of the blockade to draw the Jedi in.
You people are all so tiresome. share
Sidious was, but sati_84 was talking about Trade Federation guys. They don't go, "Okay, the Jedi are here; move to phase 2," they're surprised and panicked. This isn't in front of anybody, either. This isn't a performance they're selling. They panic in private. The assumption is that Sidious hasn't told them everything, yes? He had a plan, they didn't. The problem with that is that it's hard to swallow that they would have gone into a MASSIVE gambit like this without knowing why, what for, how it would come about, etc.
shareThe Neimoidians were outright deferential and servile toward Sidious. He was using them and manipulating them - he a master Sith and they weak minded cowards. They just did as they were told.
I don't see this as a big issue. Sidious had a plan and this is how it played out. I won't agree that this is laziness in writing. This is exactly what was intended according to the story.
"This is exactly what was intended according to the story."
See my other post about a detailed breakdown, but let me address this statement here.
No, we can't let a writer off the hook this easily. Of course all writers have an intention to tell a story. But that story has to make sense, isn't it? "Write this story, the end goal is to have Sidious win." Literally anyone can write a story like that, and will succeed at the end - Sidious will win. But if the plot doesn't make sense, that's plain laziness.
The Jedi council is not overconfident, they are plain stupid. The Trade Federation's goal is to trade tax-free with other planets. From that POV, every move has to make sense. And there are so many steps that don't... which again points towards George's laziness. He didn't really think about the in-universe implications. He didn't really think about how all this would make sense for all parties involved. He just wanted Sidious to win... and he succeeded, but you must agree that the whole thing doesn't come together very well...
So, let's go from the Neimoidians' perspectives...
They're blockading Naboo. We aren't told why, but I can presume that there's some vague economic or political reason for it. Sure. I'll buy that; I don't need those details.
What happened before that?
They were told to do this by Sidious. Either by Force or manipulation/agreement. If it's the former, what clues do we have that they are being directly controlled? None. In fact, I'd argue that their conversations with Palpatine belie differently. If he was just warping their minds, those conversations would be more, "Yes, my master," and less, "Oh, no, we need help, oh, no!"
Okay, so it's some deal they've worked out. Your point is well-taken: they're clearly being bullied. But did he just go, "Blockade Naboo; it'll be fine." Did they never go, "Okay, what about the Jedi?"
Palpatine wants a vote of no-confidence. But they don't know that, do they? Or do they? If they know that, why don't they reference it? They never talk of, "When we have more sway in the Senate," they only talk about the blockade as an endgoal. Actually, no, they're really planning to invade the planet. Why are they invading? I know, Sidious wants control. Why do the Neimoidians want to invade? Aren't they worried about retaliation?
Any one of these questions isn't necessarily a big deal, but when we only have vague sketches of the plan and the pieces don't add up, we need more details or our suspension of disbelief gets thrown for a loop.
Thanks, you worded it more concise than I did :-)
share"Of course Sidious was expecting the Jedi to get involved. He was relying on it. That was the whole point of the blockade in the first place. It's the entire point of the entire three movie trilogy. Are you kidding me with this?"
Come on, man, you can't be serious. I was not talking about Sidious there, I was talking about the Trade Federation. Without them being prepared for the Jedi, the oh-so-brillant master plan of Sidius is laughable. Yes, I am aware that in the background, he is scheming and pulling the strings. But from the Trade Federation's perspective the whole plan makes absolutely no sense. What are they even trying to accomplish? They want the queen to sign some document, but she would be signing it essentially with a gun to her head, threatening her people with a droid army... and they seriously expect any other planets to trade with them after that? Jesus, what a dumb plan overall.
But let's assume they go for it. The Jedi are well known across the galaxy, so the TF must be aware that they are going to come. And when they arrive, the TF wants to immediately bail, as they very well know they stand no chance against the Jedi. Then Sidious tells them to kill the Jedi... and they try to. Which is... again, really stupid, since let's say they were successful. On top of threatening a planet with a droid army, they would have had two dead Jedi on their track record. Jedi that were sent to negotiate on behalf of the Jedi council. Do they seriously expect to be able to get away with all this and enjoy tax-free trading with multiple planets?
Remember - we the audience are aware of Sidious' plan, but the TF is not. Everything that happens must make sense from their POV. But it doesn't, and the whole thing falls apart, as I just demonstrated.
It's like a really stupid chess puzzle. "Black (Sidious) wins in 3 moves" - well, the proper way to solve those is to make the best move with white, not the stupidest one...
getting the Jedi involved and ending the blockade doesn't move his plans on at all.
share