MovieChat Forums > Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) Discussion > Is this dare I say, "The Last Jedi" of t...

Is this dare I say, "The Last Jedi" of the Star Trek movies?

posted 4 years ago by TMC-4 (19418)
16 replies | jump to latest

In other words, a deconstructive take (whereas the other two Star Wars films in the sequel trilogy from JJ Abrams like The Search for Spock, overtly celebrated them) on elements from the original series. TWOK has a villain born out of the hero's mistake, young captain Kirk reduced to an old admiral at a desk, the peaceful Federation seeming more militarized, the great Enterprise as a training vessel, an operatic tone, a major character like Spock having to sacrifice himself without an easy way out, and a bittersweet ending that could have reasonably been the conclusion for the crew.

[–] Devilman (442) 4 years ago

No it's not, the film still gets their characters right without making them retarded and stupid old farts like what happened in TLJ.

[–] bozo_500 (12228) 4 years ago

interesting analysis regarding the 'deconstruction' of the franchise (Rians post modern deconstruction/JJs 2 celebrations of SW - Meyers deconstruction of Trek/Nimoys 2 celebratory movies)

however maybe Generations is real Last Jedi of Trek movies - considering both main characters in hiding are approached by the new lead of the next generation who is in dire need who initially get rebuffed by them, but then they come through for the finale and make the ultimate sacrifice (in a bizarre death scene)

[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 4 years ago

A big difference is that we watched the birth of Khan and saw him develop his hatred of Kirk. The new Star Wars movies just said, "Oh, Luke's been bitter for twelve years" and "zapped" that into being. That's hard to buy unless you spend an episode showing us how he got that bitter. They didn't; I don't buy it.

[–] Joogle83 (4147) 4 years ago

Luke was still Luke in TLJ from ROTJ its called Character development also Mark Hamiill was snubbed big time he had a better than Sam Rockwell from Three Billboards

[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 4 years ago

Hamill was great.

Character development that is hand-waved prior to the start of the film is - at best - exposition.

[–] Joogle83 (4147) 4 years ago

hand waved you serious Rian Johnson didnt ruin Luke

[–] Ace_Spade (9356) 4 years ago

I don't think he ruined Luke, but I think the explanation for why Luke stayed out of his life's work for so long (giving up/ pouting) wasn't good enough with a hand wave explanation of why.

I blame Abrams as much as Johnson.

I credit Johnson for some well-written scenes which bring Luke a touch of his old self, and I credit Hamill with a killer performance.

But I also gotta say that I don't think he handled the character well. Ruin is too much, but he was poorly handled.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

The most important thing that separates these movies, The Last Jedi sucked ass.

This is a classic.

[–] ebhaynz (3531) 4 years ago

It's possible it's "The Empire Strikes Back" of Star Trek movies. In other words, the best of the series.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 4 years ago

Agreed.

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12318) 4 years ago

Actually, if you want a parallel Star Trek film to compare to the Star Wars franchise's TLJ, "Star Trek V" or "Nemesis" might come closer. In fact, Star Trek V is considered the absolute worst of all the Star Trek films, hands down. If the Razzies had existed back when it was made, it would have swept up all of them the year it came out.

However, unlike TLJ, by some miracle, it was not a Franchise-Killer for "Star Trek." Of course, they didn't have assholes like Kathleen Kennedy involved in any of the movies or tv shows that came afterwards either.

[–] ebhaynz (3531) 4 years ago

what cracks me up about Star Trek V is that during the chase scene in the turbo shaft you can see the whole set shake as the old men clamber up the ladder.

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12318) 4 years ago

I also think it was really dumb, that Spock was wearing rocket boots, when we never saw anyone use them in any other Star Trek movie or tv show.

You should have heard all the drama that was going on behind the scenes when they were filming. It was an epic battle of egos, constant changes to the story and filming, and a lot of personal drama between Shatner, the producer, and Leonard Nimoy. Things got so bad that the rest of the cast didn't talk to Shatner for years after that.

[–] ebhaynz (3531) 4 years ago

Yeah, I believe it. Shatner just had to direct after his "buddy" Nimoy did a great job with Star Trek III and IV. I bet Nimoy was his friend but one of those friends who always shook his head at how selfish Shatner was 24/7.
I do have to say the beginning of Star Trek V was so different for a few minutes I thought it was going to be great..then it quickly turned into a crap show. and this was right after I saw the Abyss, which was abysmal. Thankfully that summer we at least had Indy Jones 3, Batman, Dead Poet's Society, and Lethal Weapon 2. Even Weekend at Bernies and UHF were pretty good lol.

[–] bozo_500 (12228) 4 years ago

the razzies were around then and Trek V did indeed sweep the board that year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Golden_Raspberry_Awards

[–] AmeriGirl26 (12318) 4 years ago

Omg! That is so funny! xD