MovieChat Forums > The Godfather (1972) Discussion > Why did Bonasera have to beg Vito for ju...

Why did Bonasera have to beg Vito for justice for his daughter?


Vito said in the conversation that his wife was godmother to this girl. That makes them family! That basically makes Vito her godfather even if he did not stand up in the baptism ceremony. Normally they both would be godparents.

Look what lengths and expense Vito uses to help that moron Johnny Fontane who is a godson and not related by blood. Here is an innocent Italian girl who was beaten almost to death. Vito should have taken care of the scum without Amerigo Bonasera even having to ask.

reply

Because Amerigo Bonasera had spurned Don Corleone's offers of support. He felt if he were indebted to Corleone it would make him look bad, and instead struck out on his own, trusting in the American government to protect him. When his daughter was beaten, and the American system was of no help, he went to Corleone, who was understandably slighted by Bonasera's actions. When he didn't need anything, Bonasera distanced himself from Corleone, but when he realizes he does need him, he comes begging to him.

Meanwhile, Johnny Fontane had been loyal to the family, so when he needed help, of course they were willing to provide it.

reply

So why did they have Vito's wife as a godparent to their only child?

You do not need to summarize the entire conversation I get it. Being a godparent is a serious thing for Italians and this girl is a god child.

I have more respect for Amerigo Bonasera. He was not some whiner always asking for help from Vito. So because whiner Johnny was more needy Vito should respect him more? We hear of nothing that Johnny ever did for the Don just what the Don did for him.

Just happens that Bonasera had a need that few people could fulfill. Perhaps they should not have written into the script that this girl was a real god child.

reply

The girl being the godchild was probably the only reason Corleone agreed to help him. As for why Corleone's wife was his child's godmother, who's to say? Maybe their wives were friends, or maybe it was an act of friendship that was meant to encourage Bonasera to trust Corleone?

And it's not a matter of whining. I have little respect for Bonasera. He's a fair weather friend. When it's in his best interest, he will turn his back on you and act is if he is better than you, but when things become too much for him to handle, he runs to you for help.

reply

You have little respect for a businessman who chooses to not regularly bother the local mafia about his problems in life? So if he did you would respect him? Godfather the neighbor's dog shat on my lawn please talk to him for me? That impresses you?

Having somebody killed or beaten up is a unique thing. Something the mob would be well suited for. If he needed an addition for his house he would hire a carpenter.

reply

It's not about not regularly bothering Corleone. It's about him separating himself from that entire world, acting as if he were above it, and did not need it, then come begging to Corleone for help when he realized he was wrong.

reply

So law abiding people are "above it"?

How was he wrong? What a stupid thing to say. His daughter was beaten up and the criminal justice system failed him. That does not mean he was wrong by not being involved with the mob.

Stop fantasizing you belong to that world.

reply

I'm discussing the characters in the film, and their motivations.

reply

The book explains that the reason why the two youths received a suspended sentence was because one of their father's was a local politician, so.

reply

''You have little respect for a businessman who chooses to not regularly bother the local mafia about his problems in life?''

This comment left me in stitches 😄

reply

''As for why Corleone's wife was his child's godmother, who's to say? Maybe their wives were friends''.

It's been years since I read the novel but from what I can remember. The godfather's wife and the undertaker's wife were the best of friends.

reply

Because Amerigo Bonasera had spurned Don Corleone's offers of support. He felt if he were indebted to Corleone it would make him look bad, and instead struck out on his own, trusting in the American government to protect him. When his daughter was beaten, and the American system was of no help, he went to Corleone, who was understandably slighted by Bonasera's actions.


Exactly.

reply

He did not "spurn" him he just did not seek out his support. That is his right as a human being.

Some of you people astound me. So the average American should be involved with organized crime just in case a loved one is harmed and might later want somebody beaten or killed?

reply


You're parsing words. Bonasera didn't seek out Don Vito because he didn't want to get involved in the dirty side of the family, and didn't want to be indebted to Vito. "Spurn" is acceptable usage in this case even if not the best word.

It wasn't until the thugs walked free from disfiguring his daughter that Bonasera decided revenge trumped his moral compass about law and order. In fact, Bonasera asked Vito to kill the thugs, something Vito wouldn't do. It was now Vito who held the moral high ground. It wasn't until justice (in his mind) was denied that Bonasera finally agreed to ask Vito.

Some of you people astound me. So the average American should be involved with organized crime just in case a loved one is harmed and might later want somebody beaten or killed?


Who said that, and where? What's astounding is that no one seems to understand English anymore. Something is said and the entire meaning is twisted. It's like talking to a 3 year old: Mom - "You can't have ice cream so close to dinner". Child- "YOU HATE ME".

No one said the "average" American should go to organized crime. You asked about *this* movie - a movie about a mob family. We gave you the reasons Bonasera went to Vito, we didn't justify it.

You asked Bonasera's motivation, and you were given a fine answer. It's more astounding to me that when people ask a question, they will NEVER accept a correct answer.

reply

Learn the damn language yourself.

https://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=opera2&p=spurn

1.
reject with disdain or contempt:

What about distain or contempt do you not understand? Moron? Bonasera simply did not want to be involved with criminals. Nothing disdainful or contemptuous about that.

Note that he was not asking Vito to do something for nothing. He was willing to pay him. He did not want to be indebted to anybody which is what responsible people do.

reply

I may be a moron, but at least I know there are degrees of any verb. Was it the best word, no, and I said as much. But this is deflecting the whole argument. You asked why Bonasera had to ask/beg for Vito's help instead of Vito offering the help, and you were given a proper answer. Instead of accepting the answer, you decided to make the argument about the verb used. Fine..

But I noticed you picked the definition that was most harsh. How this one from the Cambridge Dictionary:

spurn
verb [ T ]
formal
us
/spɝːn/ uk
/spɜːn/
to refuse to accept something or someone because you feel that thing or person is not worth having


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/spurn

Well, that certainly describes fairly closely what we see from Bonasera with regards to his relationship with Vito. Bonasera didn't believe in Vito's type of justice and did not want to be indebted to him.

But this still is word salad. Spurn, rejected, politely declined... What does it matter? Bonasera spurned/rejected/politely declined Vito (didn't even want him over his house for coffee) until he ran out of options. Vito was *miffed* at Bonasera a bit (I hope "miffed" doesn't get you upset) for coming to him for justice only after he exhausted his legal options.

You also didn't address the point of you thinking we were suggesting that an "average American should be involved with organized crime just in case a loved one is harmed and might later want somebody beaten or killed".

As a moron, I'd like clarification on this. Thanks.


reply

Don't expect anything remotely approaching class out of an Alabama fan.

reply

Because, unlike the Nazzorine the baker, Bonasera never did any favors for Vito going back to their days living on the lower east side. It is implied that Nazzorine is THE family baker and has probably made every wedding cake for the Family and their associates going back decades, and for FREE. When Nazz asks the Don for a favor to help Enzo stay in America and marry his daughter Vito is quick to accept his request without question. Nazz probably also kissed the Don's hand and accepted being indebted to him because having a powerful friend means a lot in a dangerous community in the early 20th Century New York. Bonasera states that he never saw the need for that type of acquiescence to Don Corleone, until he had to.

reply

Because he distanced himself from the Corleone family for so long and he didn't immediately go to Vito for help.

reply

So?

reply

Again read the original post. I did not write the script. If Vito's wife was this girl's godmother that basically makes him a godfather by default even if he did not literally stand up for her at her baptism.

She was an Italian girl INNOCENTLY beaten severely and apparently disfigured in an attempted rape by some non Italian assholes.

So let me ask again why is Bonasera even needing to ask? Vito should have sent some guys out 2 weeks ago.

If he is willing to fly cross country and cut off a horses head to help that whiner Johnny Fontane then he can do this for this innocent girl.

Again I did not write it into the script that mama Corleone was a godmother to this girl.

reply

One more thing. Snap out of your fantasy Soprano Gumba ideas. You can be an Italian and still not be affiliated with the mob. Believe it or not. The Bonasera family was already tied to the Corleone family by the mother being godmother to this girl. Not my script.

reply

This scene struck close to my heart and past. As a little girl living in a large city, with a grandfather who was well “connected”, I spent many Sunday afternoons seeing people dressed in their finest parade into my grandparents living room asking my grandfather for “just a moment of your time.” My siblings and I would leave the room and go to the adjoining dining room. I heard many conversations about beatings, fires and thefts that these people asked my grandfather to respond/rectify/retaliate to. Then after they left, we were allowed back into the living room while my father, uncles and grandfather would discuss the situations. I heard the words “loyalty”, “how much has he spent at our businesses”, “how connected is he?”, etc. My grandma was a leader in the city woman’s organizations organizations of my ethnicity. She was named Godmother to too many kids for me to remember. My father told me people did that in hopes of calling for help when they needed it. My dad nor my mom never agreed to be Godparents to anyone’s kids except close family members.
So Bonsera’s daughter was a godchild of Vito’s wife. The guy likely disdained the Corleone organization. Now back then, the Italians, Greeks and other ethnicities generally lived in separate neighborhoods and patronized businesses owned and run by their own. So the Corleone's felt snubbed by this guy who felt he had no need for them. The possibilities are endless how he may have exhibited this. In his time of need,yes, he did go to Vito begging for help. Vito may have felt obligated because he felt a responsibility, to some point, to protect children and those of his ethnicity. There were many who received “favors” from my family not because they were loyal, but because my grandfather surmised it was for the better of the community as a whole.

reply

It just wasn't in the Dons character to do what you're saying he should've done. He calculating and thought 5 steps ahead. To forget about the undertaker's past actions wouldn't have fit in with his character.

reply

I'm sure we all appreciate the question, Rolltide because this is a discussion board and it's a suitable topic for discussion.

But do you have to be so unbelievably rude? People have been good enough to offer up their opinions and interpretations in answer to your question. Just because you don't like the answers that's no reason to start insulting people. It's stuff like this that got the original imdb boards shut down. Pointless aggression directed at people having a civil conversation.

If you want another opinion about your question, I agree with the other posters. Vito is under no obligation to mete out justice for people who he has little or no connection to. He is not running a law enforcement agency. His wife might have been Godmother to Bonasera's daughter, but presumably the girl is at least 16 so that might be a relationship that has drifted off into the past. Vito mentions that he has never so much as been invited round for coffee in the recent past. The whole point of the Godfather's relationship to the community is that if you demonstrate your commitment and loyalty to him he will have your back. Bonasera had not demonstrated any such thing and instead is offering to pay for retribution. Vito does not need the money and Bonasera's offer essentially suggests he believes that Vito is motivated by money, so of course that looks disrespectful when Vito has made it clear he values loyalty and friendship far more.

And like the other posters here, I am answering in the context of the characters in the film, not advocating anything that goes on therein.

reply

> But do you have to be so unbelievably rude?

Some people just aren't worth the trouble.

> I'm sure we all appreciate the question, Rolltide because this is a discussion board and it's a suitable topic for discussion.

Well put. And it raises another question. If Bonasera didn't want to be in Vito's debt, why did he ever agree to the godfather relationship in the first place? Maybe he's henpecked and his wife dominated him, talked him into doing it. But if that were the case, wouldn't she have dominated him in other ways, forcing him to have Vito over for coffee and do other things to show respect. They're not stupid people and must have known what they were getting into. And although Bonasera comes off as a sniveling character in the movie, he doesn't seem that way in the book; his wife knows there are some thing he just won't talk about and doesn't press the issue.

> The whole point of the Godfather's relationship to the community is that if you demonstrate your commitment and loyalty to him he will have your back.

Exactly.

The godparent-godchild relationship, Nazorine's doing the wedding cake for free, Johnny Fontane's singing at the wedding, et cetera all have a deeper meaning. Those acts are all signs of swearing fealty to Vito, then reaffirming that fealty. As Vito says, someday he might call upon any of them for a favor. Bonasera didn't want that. Fine, Vito reasoned, let him go to the courts and police for justice. When Bonasera changed his mind and asked for Vito's help, Vito made it clear that he expected Bonasera's fealty, and it was only when Bonasera gave it that Vito agreed to be the instrument of Bonasera's vengeance.

reply

I wasn't that rude. Stop being a baby.

No connection? His wife is the girl's godmother!!!! I did not write that it is in the script! That was a main point. Vito should already know about the girl's plight and be interested in it. He is willing to move heaven and earth to help that moron Johnny just for being his godson.

It is normal, let me repeat normal for people to be law abiding and not immersed in the mob. Bonasera's offer of money is obviously because he was not connected with that aspect of the family and knew that Vito owned him nothing. What happened to his daughter was extraordinary!

reply

I went back and read my posts referring to this topic. I was not really rude at all. People need to stop acting like arm chair Dons.

Thanks to Bull Schmidt for being the board policeman.

reply

In summary.

1. Being a normal law abiding person is not a form of disrespect. The Don knows this he even said he understands Bonasera's decision to stay out of mob business. See 2:09.

2. There is a connection between Vito's family and Bonasera Vito's wife is the girl's godmother! 1:48

3. Bonasera's circumstance is extraordinary! His daughter was beaten to within an inch of her life and she was disfigured! He said she was no longer pretty. So while Vito is self absorbed about not being invited for coffee this man's only child was brutalized! It's not like he's asking for Vito to beat up some guy who called him a name. This involves his child!

4. Bonasera only offered Vito money AFTER Vito rejected his wish. He did not offer Vito a contract for a murder. Only after Vito says no does he then say he will give anything he asks. 1:34.

5. It is hard to believe that Vito would not have already known about the incident with the girl before Bonasera asked for help. An Italian girl is beaten like that he would have known about it. People would have been talking about it.

https://youtu.be/XPTAjNVvrYg

reply

>I wasn't that rude. Stop being a baby.

Satire is dead. I'm a baby, someone else is a moron. You even sound angry in your first post. There's just no need for it.

>No connection? His wife is the girl's godmother!!!!

As I said, the girl is a teenager, at least 16, probably 18 (the boyfriend is mentioned as being 20 in the novel). Who knows how that relationship now looks. The Don is not obligated to go around solving people's problems unprompted. As BullSchmidt says, help is for those who are willing to help in turn. Bonasera was not.

reply

What does the girl's age have to do with it? When you turn 18 you deserve to be beaten?

Why are you ignoring that Don Corleone's wife is the girl's Godmother? He's willing to do anything for that moron Johnny Fontane who is a 40 year old man but an innocent girl gets beaten and he should do nothing?

You people have different values I guess. Your values are like a mafioso.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/894442/images/o-CRYINGBABY-facebook.jpg

reply

Most normal men have a visceral response to men beating a girl half to death for the unforgivable sin of not having sex with them.

I watched an episode of forensic files today where 2 pieces of shit took a 10 year old and raped her and murdered her. They got the guys by matching a bite mark to one and some hairs to another. The girl had pulled out some hairs while fighting the assholes.

Do I know these people? No. Did I know the girl? No. Still I was pissed they got life and not the death penalty and I would love to take a ball bat upside both their heads. The girl's mom would not need to genuflect before me or perform some favors for me first.

If I hurt any of your feelings too bad. Go piss up a rope or cry about it.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.IdEQOXeHI_HzY460lMwwLgHaEK&pid=Api&P=0&w=323&h=182

reply

It's not about hurt feelings, Rolltide, it takes more than a keyboard warrior mouthing off to trouble me, just a simple request for civility which does not seem unreasonable to me and makes for a more conducive discussion, but take it or leave it.

The girl's age is not the issue, what I'm pointing out (now repeatedly), is that Vito's wife was asked to be godmother to this person maybe two decades ago. That does not necessarily mean that the two women currently have the type of close relationship that would mean Vito would immediately act on the mother's behalf without any kind of prompting. By the sound of things, Vito has not met with either of these two parents in many years, perhaps his wife has not either.

And if you go round with aspirations of personally visiting violent revenge upon people whose actions have riled you it kind of sounds like your values are more akin to the mafia's than mine.

reply

Perhaps a reading impediment?

The Don was willing to execute a prize thoroughbred horse worth millions in today's money just to intimidate a producer to give Johnny Fontane a role in a film. The Don also threatened to murder a band leader to get Johnny out of a contract. The Don is Johnny Fontane's Godfather! That's why he did those things for Johnny. Johnny had little to give to Vito. What favors could that moron give to a mafia don? Yet the Don was willing to go to extremes to help the idiot.

You, we, know nothing about the relationship of Vito's wife to that family since that girl's baptism. Stop assuming things.

reply

I'm not assuming anything, I'm presenting it as a possibility to help explain why Vito would not act automatically.

reply

> Johnny had little to give to Vito. What favors could that moron give to a mafia don? Yet the Don was willing to go to extremes to help the idiot.

The movie didn't cover this at all. In the novel, when Tom meets with Woltz he is struck by what a fool the man is. Later, Vito arranges for California banks to finance movies to be produced by Johnny Fontane. Tom visits Johnny and tells him to plan on making three to five pictures at a total cost of twenty million dollars. Tom further says that while Johnny is Vito's favorite godson, twenty million is a lot of money and warns him not to screw around with it. Johnny replies that Tom should tell Vito to not worry, if someone like Jack Woltz can produce movies, anyone can. Tom replies that this is the way Vito sees it too.

We don't hear anything further about it, but that's the answer. Johnny is Vito's portal into the movie business. Vito sets him up as a prime mover in Hollywood, where he makes money for Vito.

reply

> Vito's wife was asked to be godmother to this person maybe two decades ago. That does not necessarily mean that the two women currently have the type of close relationship

A side issue, and this is speculation. I had to look up what a godparent actually does. He or she stands with the parents at the child's baptism, and assumes partial responsibility for the child's religious education.

In the novel, Carmela goes to Mass every day, to pray for God's mercy for Vito's soul, and presumably also prays for Sonny, Fredo, etc. (At the book's end, Kay has converted to Catholicism and accompanies her on these daily trips, to pray for Michael.) So Carmela is a devout woman who takes her religion seriously. I'm guessing that with that godmother relationship, she would have already been visting Bonasera's daugher, praying with her, et cetera. But like I said, it's off topic -- "godparent" (religious) and "Godfather" (Mafia) are two entirely different things.

reply

> As BullSchmidt says, help is for those who are willing to help in turn.

Well ... I'm not entirely disagreeing, but I think putting it that way neglects a deeper issue.

I mentioned fealty, and I chose that word deliberately. Fealty -- the relationship of a vassal to his liege lord. In medieval times, your liege lord was the man who lent you a piece of land you could farm so you could feed yourself. He was the man who settled any disputes among you and his other vassals. He was the man you and his other vassals took your problems to. Settling disputes and solving problems may have been a pain in the ass for the liege lord, but there was another aspect to it. When a vassal took such an issue to him, it was an act of acknowledgement that he was the man who had that authority. It was, in a way, swearing fealty all over again.

Well, it's more elaborated on in the book, but Vito's relationship with his vassals is very much like that. He's arranged employment for many of them, enabling them to feed themselves, in an era when Italian immigrants weren't in the front of the line when considered for jobs. He's seen to it that some of their children could go to college. (In medieval times, if it was apparent that your child had a real brain your liege lord often arranged for a real education.) We do see signs of it here and there in the movie. When Enzo and Nazorine's daughter want to marry but Enzo's deportation is imminent, it is Vito who Nazorine takes the problem to. In GF2, when Signora Colombo is told she is evicted from her home, it is Vito she goes to for assistance. But when Bonasera meets with Vito, Vito says they've known each other many years but "this is the first time you came to me for counsel, for help."

And, you had to do things in return for your liege lord. In particular, if your community came under attack, you were required to take up arms and defend it. Well, same here. Vito's vassals have obligations to him. As Vito says, someday he might call upon any of them for a favor. Of course, Vito's favors almost always required breaking the law -- if they didn't, he wouldn't have to ask for the favor in the first place. By doing those illegal favors his vassals reaffirm their fealty, showing that their first loyalty is to him, even over the church and the laws of mainstream society. And like those earlier vassals, they put themselves at risk to defend their liege lord's "community." But notice that the very first thing Vito says to Bonasera is, "Why did you go to the police? Why didn't you come to me first?" Not just, "why didn't you come to me," but "why didn't you come to me first?"

Bonasera didn't want that relationship. When he changed his mind and asked for Vito's help, Vito made it clear that he expected Bonasera's fealty, and it was only when Bonasera gave it -- asking for Vito's "friendship," calling him Godfather, kissing his hand -- that Vito agreed ... and let him know immediately that he now had a vassal's obligation, that Vito might ask him for a favor someday.

reply

Very articulately put, BullSchmidt, great post.

reply

Bonasera changed his mind because of an extraordinary set of circumstances that occurred.

His daughter being severely beaten.
The scum who beat her getting off with no prison time.

He did not on a whim decide one day that he wanted to get Vito Corleone to beat the shit out of somebody.

reply

> Bonasera changed his mind because of an extraordinary set of circumstances that occurred. His daughter being severely beaten. The scum who beat her getting off with no prison time.

Agreed, but it went beyond that. As he said, he had believed in America. When his adoptive country betrayed him by failing to avenge his daughter, he must have realized he couldn't count on it to protect him and his family in other situations. At least not when the opposing party was affluent, White, and/or native-born -- things established about the girl's attackers in the book although not mentioned in the movie. He realized that when he went through the motions of accepting the judgment of the court and respecting the legal system, in reality he had "stood in the courtroom like a fool."

> He did not on a whim decide one day that he wanted to get Vito Corleone to beat the shit out of somebody.

I never said that he did. This is as much from the book as the movie ... First he looked to the courts to take vengeance on his behalf. He fully expected the punks who beat his daughter to do long time, in fact had no doubt at all that would happen, and was flabbergasted when they got suspended sentences. It was only then that he even thought of going to Vito. Once the shock wore off he did make that decision instantly, he didn't have to mull it over, but under the circumstances that's hardly doing it "on a whim." I never said it was, and as far as I've seen nobody else has either.

He asked Vito -- not to beat the shit out of them, but to kill them -- believing that Vito would do it, presumably for any number of reasons. Maybe he thought Vito would do it out of outrage and compassion for his daughter. Maybe he thought Vito had taken on the role of protector of all the local Italians. Maybe he thought Vito considered him a friend -- in the ordinary sense of the word, not in Vito's sense -- and would do it for that reason. Maybe he thought Vito just liked to murder people. Who knows?

When it became apparent that Vito intended to do nothing, he offered to pay him. That didn't work. Instead, Vito let him know what he wanted.

Bonasera... Bonasera... What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully? Had you come to me in friendship, then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And if by chance if an honest man such as yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies. And then they would fear you.

Bonasera understood what Vito meant by "friendship." Submission. His first loyalty. Fealty. Well, OK then -- if that's what it takes to get vengeance, so be it. He asked for Vito's friendship, kissed his hand, addressed him as Godfather.

Early in the novel, before becoming part of the Corleone Family instead of just being part of the family, Mike explained it to Kay in a more pragmatic way. She said that Vito had done some terrible things but it also sounded like he was a wonderful man in his own way, helping people out who needed it. Mike said, paraphrased, "You know how those Arctic explorers leave caches of food and supplies along their routes, more than they think they'll need on the way back, just in case it's rough going on the way back and they do need them? That's my father's favors. And every one of those people who owe him favors in return know that if he ever asks for those favors, they'd better come through."

reply

What did Johnny Fontane do for Vito and the family that was so valuable they were willing to commit horrible crimes for him?

The same day Johnny cried(literally) to the Don about this role in a film the Don's adopted son and consigliere Tom Hagen is on a plane across the country to LA on his behalf. What an important guy!

Let me quote Tom Hagen verbatim to Jack Woltz about Johnny. "Mr Corleone is Johnny's godfather. To the Italian people that a very religious, sacred, close relationship."

Hmmm. I guess godparent only matters when it is a male crooner. Not an innocent girl who got her head bashed in.

The horse they killed was worth $600,000 that's 10-15 million in today's money. If you base it on the year the film was made about $3.6M.

So an innocent girl who is a godchild to the family that was beaten to a pulp is worth much less to Vito than getting Johnny that big part so he can get better lays.

reply

> Let me quote Tom Hagen verbatim to Jack Woltz about Johnny. "Mr Corleone is Johnny's godfather. To the Italian people that a very religious, sacred, close relationship."

Yes. That's nearly a direct quote from the book. He then says, "Italians have a little joke that the world is so hard a man must have two fathers to look after him, and that's why they have god-fathers. Since Johnny's father died, Mr. Corleone feels his responsibility even more deeply. As for trying you again, Mr. Corleone is much too sensitive. He never asks a second favor where he has been refused the first."

In the conversation that follows, it becomes apparent that the real reason Woltz invited him to dinner was that he thought he could pay off the Corleones and not suffer the union troubles Tom had threatened him with on Johnny's behalf. And it also turns out that Woltz's real grudge against Johnny is that he ruined one of Woltz's most valuable proteges, a girl who Woltz says "was the greatest piece of ass I've ever had and I've had them all over the world." (Yep, that hilarious line is directly from the book. Thank you, Mario Puzo.)

Hagen then lays another story on Woltz, about how Vito held the infant Johnny in his arms when he was baptized, and that Vito "never lets his friends down."

Woltz gets angry and threatens the Corleones. And Tom thinks --

The stupid, stupid son of a bitch. How the hell did he get to be a pezzonovante, Hagen wondered. Advisor to the President, head of the biggest movie studio in the world. Definitely the Don should get into the movie business. And the guy was taking his words at their sentimental face value. He was not getting the message. [emphasis mine]

Now, I don't think you're stupid, and I don't think you're a son of a bitch. But you are making the same mistake Woltz made. You're taking "godfather," "godson," et cetera way too literally. Fortunately you're in little danger of having a horse's head planted in your bed.

Maybe I can make the point with two more quotes from the novel.

In that meeting with Bonasera, Vito doesn't say "accept this justice as a gift on my daughter's wedding day." He says, "consider this justice a gift from my wife, your daughter's godmother."

His daughter's godmother -- with a lowercase "g." That's the religious relationship you're talking about. She stood with the parents and bore witness to the girl's baptism and promised to help in the girl's spiritual education. (And she probably had been praying with the girl many times since the assault.) The same thing Michael later did with Connie and Carlo's infant son, Michael Francis Rizzi. Standing with him at his baptism, and presumably taking responsibility along with Connie and Carlo for his religious upbringing. He was the baby's godfather. Did that make him the baby's Godfather? No. A baby does not have the capacity to consent to that relationship.

In the meeting with Woltz, Hagen tells him, "indeed, [Vito Corleone] is called 'Godfather' by many, many people who wish to show their respect and gratitude for the help he has given them."

Godfather -- capitalized. A title. And Vito was not at most of their baptisms, and we're not talking about relationships that were formed under the auspices of the church with its blessing.

What does it take to have Vito as your Godfather? Again, fealty. In the novel, after Bonasera offers to pay him, Vito asks, "Why do you fear to give your first allegiance to me?"

Here's a point to ponder. Bonasera feared being indebted to Vito. He "didn't want to get into trouble." But if the Godfather and godparent relationships were as intertwined as you seem to think they are, why would Bonasera have ever consented to Carmela being his daughter's godmother at all?

So yes, they're two very different things. Carmela Corleone is the girl's godmother. Vito Corleone is Johnny's Godfather. He's probably godfather to some people too, but just because it's the same word doesn't mean it's the same thing. A "jack" can be a flag, like the "Union Jack," or it can be a device to lift a car for service, but that doesn't mean that when you get a flat tire you can pull Old Glory from the flagpole and put on your spare tire with it. Clemenza and Tessio both call Vito "Godfather" and he sure wasn't at their baptisms, they were all grown men when they met.

reply

I stumbled across something that might interest you while looking in The Annotated Godfather https://www.amazon.com/Annotated-Godfather-Screenplay-Commentary-Little-Known/dp/1579128114

There's a photo in there of two pages from Francis Ford Coppola's notes on the wedding scene. Here's what he wrote about Bonasera:

The scene with Bonasera is good and very important. It further defines the Don's power, and puts forth the essence of what it is the Don refers to as 'friendship' i.e. a pledge of loyalty. It is the gathering and manipulations of these pledges which give the Don his extraordinary power in the first place. It is very important that after Bonasera gives his pledge, that we understand he feels he is now under a grave and frightening obligation to the Godfather. Bonasera must be a super, super actor.

reply

I know I'm a about a year late but if I could add my two cents into this discussion. The way I see it. The godfather was likely appalled with what happened to Bonazera's daughter (even referred to the two youths as ''scum''). I'm pretty sure that if someone did that to his own daughter, he wouldn't have hesitated to take action. The book explains that even before the undertaker approached him with this matter. The godfather had done some research and found out that the two youths received a suspended sentence because one of their respective father's was a local politician (it's always about having the right connections). So it's not like Don Vito was completely unaware/apathetic for Bonasera's situation. I always say that it's important to see things in their proper context. I'm not Sicilian but it is to my understanding that traditional Sicilians have a long standing rule of not seeking help from the authorities under any circumstances. And Don Vito was obviously an old fashioned Sicilian in this regard (same reason he refused to intervene in his daughter's beatings). Which is why he reprimanded Bonasera for doing so. ''Why did you go to the police?'' That's literally the first thing he said to him during their conversation.

reply

''Fealty -- the relationship of a vassal to his liege lord. In medieval times, your liege lord was the man who lent you a piece of land you could farm so you could feed yourself. He was the man who settled any disputes among you and his other vassals. He was the man you and his other vassals took your problems to''. It was an act of acknowledgment that he was the man who had that authority. It was, in a way, swearing fealty all over again. And, you had to do things in return for your liege lord. Vito's vassals have obligations to him'' and Vito made it clear that he expected Bonasera's fealty.'' Might I add that this is exactly why when Tom summoned Bonasera over the phone via the godfather's request. He did so in an almost demanding tone. ''You owe your Don a service''.

I'm inclined to agree with BullSchmidt's sentiment on this one. In the godfather's mind it was all about approaching him ''the right way'' when you needed a favor from him. ''This matter would be resolved this very day had you come to me in friendship''. Had to split this message into two parts because it apparently had too many characters.

By the way BullSchmidt. That username sounds familiar from my IMDB days.

reply