MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > The representation of men in modern film...

The representation of men in modern films and TV shows


I've been thinking about how men are portrayed in the media these days and thought I'd share my thoughts. Feel free to disagree, but please keep it civilised and constructive.

It seems to me that the way men are represented in Western media has changed over the past decade, and I feel the changes have been to the detriment of men and boys.

The representation of women has changed too, but in a way positive for women and girls. Hollywood in particular used to sometimes represent women in an exploitative, dismissive or sexualised way. However, this attitude was very rarely hateful or intentionally negative. Female characters were much more likely to be overlooked or trivialised than condemned.

With men, however, vilification is common in the media. What gets to me isn't that men are often villains, but that they're villains because they're men. This seems like an important change. Men are in some ways presented as innately and irredeemably flawed creatures, while women automatically have advantages, abilities and insight denied to men.

The loss of men from certain roles is also a recent trend. In remakes and reboots, characters are often swapped from male to female, or historical roles that were almost exclusively male have a disproportionately or unrealistically high number of female characters. Male characteristics, such as physical strength, assertiveness, stoicism, aggressiveness and competitiveness have become the attributes of leading female characters, and leading male characters are in decline. It's one thing to create good female roles, but another thing to take those roles from men. I can't exactly say that men and boys have been squeezed out, but this process only occurs in one direction and it's usually zero sum - women gain and men lose.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and it was a golden age for boys who loved cinema. On reflection, I probably took the male-centred narratives of the films I enjoyed for granted, and never thought about my role as a boy or a future man. And why would I? I was doing no harm and girls had their own entertainment, which didn't concern me. Nowadays, it seems almost impossible to sit through a film or a show without being asked or forced to question your identity in a partisan way, which is exhausting and unproductive. It's a shame that we - all of us, male and female - can't simply go through what should be one of the most enjoyable parts of the day without it becoming yet another front in the culture wars. Women can be women and men can be men, without tension or conflict about their roles. They don't have to exist in opposition or competition. Of course, it's perfectly valid for films and shows to be more analytical or provocative about gender and identity, but there's a place for that, and it isn't in most productions.

I don't want to go back to the past. In some ways, there's been progress in the representation of the sexes that I'm happy to see. However, misandry seems all too common in today's media, and engaging or positive male characters seem to have almost disappeared from our screens. A fuller and more tightly focused representation of women is all to the good, but it doesn't need to be accompanied by the abasement or erasure of men.

Given how I feel, I sometimes wonder what effect modern media have on boys. It must be harmful to be shown again and again that you belong to an intrinsically flawed and unpleasant group, with few good role models as counterpoints. I don't think it can lead to anything good.

What are your thoughts? Do I have a point or am I overthinking this?

Monday edit: Thank you to everyone who responded in good faith, whether you agreed or disagreed. I don't think my mind has been changed, but you've given me a lot to think about.

I did ask for a civilised and constructive discussion, but one notable troll steamed straight in with insults and derision. Someone else accused me of being a sock puppet for another poster. I'm not. I briefly had an account on here before, perhaps a year or 18 months ago. I deleted my account because of the trolling. I really have to question what the value is of keeping disruptive people like that around. Trust me, they put off a lot of potential users.

reply

You're not overthinking this, nor are you imagining it. The media have been portraying men negatively versus us "smarter" women for decades. The only thing was, until recently (say, post 2011 onward), men were still allowed to be heroes and to be admired, whereas the places where they were lampooned were appropriate forums, such as sitcoms with dads in them.

The fact that they have to put down the men today so that the 4th wave feminazi bitches look great by comparison shows that the writers are weak-minded idiots and have bought into the narrative that men are evil, and women are good. It's a curse the LA Basin has imposed on itself since even before the Woke Era, driving away all the "old white men," the "evil nazi" writers, and anyone who basically has a brain, creativity, and isn't hard-left thinking.

By the way, their supposed "heroines" aren't actually very cool. Most are boring, uninteresting, unlikeable, always end up alone (with good reason), and I feel like punching the bitches out and shouting to the stars, "Bring back the REAL MEN! I don't want Mary Sue's! I want REAL women who know how to be women!"

reply

I still remember the hoo haa over the Sicario film from 2015 on the original IMDb forums. There is a female character in the film who is rookie law enforcement officer. She is promoted well above her means and stature so she can be manipulated by her higher ups. That is the whole point of her character and why it is interesting.

This upset the Woke ones on the boards as they saw the female character as being weak and a sexist representation of females.

Interesting characters are never perfect. Look at most male heroes, they are flawed. In Lethal Weapon you have the suicidal Riggs. In Heartbreak Ridge you have Clint Eastwood's character reading women's magazines because he is trying to understand women.

Mary Sue's are another issue. A woman who has never done a task/activity before masters it in moments and is out there beating the champions. Doesn't that in itself mean the task or activity is kind of worthless if she can get to that level so quickly?

reply

I don't mind strong female characters; it's crappily-written ones I can't stand, particularly the ones that aren't very likeable, have no flaws, never have a male mentor, are about as feminine as common brick, are nasty to everyone, can easily beat the men with no training in how to fight, are never romantically involved with anyone unless it's with another woman, and seem to know everything and are the smartest person in the room, with no explanation as to how they got that way at all.

The best examples would include Michael Burnham from Kurtzman Trek, "Guyladriel" from that horrible Rings of Power show, Captain Marvel, the D+ version of She-Hulk, Rey from the Disney Star Wars fanfics, (in fact, many of the females from the D+ Star Wars crap shows could go under this category), whoever those chicks Emilia Clarke played in that crappy Solo movie and "Secret Invasion," and that bitchy, insufferable lesbian princess and her lover from that horrible Willow fanfic.

You basically have some very weak-minded, flawed, pathetic, ugly, stupid female (and some male) writers in Hollyweird these days that are using these fake "strong" female characters to make up for all their shortcomings and to use the story as a form of getting revenge on the white, straight men they hate.

reply

Lots of strong female characters in old movies. Women in westerns fighting back, protecting their kids. Film noir women scheming and taking slaps to the face.

In the Canadian tv show “Heartland” they had a female character who learns how to rodeo and then starts winning contests straight away. Beating guys who have been doing it for ages.

My eyes would roll if it were some white male novice who was doing the same.

reply

I know what you mean. There are plenty of strong female leads in movies and tv shows of the past that are greatly admired, and yet there are those in Hollyweird who would deliberately wave them off because they aren't from films that were made after 2015, or the story was written by a white male. They truly do not appreciate an actual woman with a strong character and a good story arc.

reply

THIS IS NEXT LEVEL CRAZY.

reply

Again Kowalski chooses to swear instead of having a discussion.

reply

DID YOU READ WHAT HE SAID...OR ANYTHING HE HAS SAID IN THE PAST?....HE DOES NOT ENGAGE OR DISCUSS...HE RANTS AND IGNORES.

reply

You raise a good point - many modern female characters are just as superficial and stereotypical as their male counterparts, though the stereotype may have changed from negative to positive. I'm surprised many women accept this. Of course, we all like to be flattered, but pandering doesn't make for interesting or substantial characters.

reply

We need to bring back gatekeeping in terms of male only spaces and in popular culture. That would help solve a lot of these problems. If Star Wars was created as a "boy brand" fire Kathleen Kennedy and her worthless minions immediately.

reply

YIKES.

reply

Over the past 15 or so years it has become out of control in terms of Woke and how they like to represent women and other alleged disadvantaged groups.

Characters in TV shows in particular now will deliver political speeches rather than meaningful dialogue they will even wear t shirts with political slogans on them to drive the message home. Even in historical set shows like Vikings you see legions of petite Shield Maidens in hand to hand combat with huge men. In the most recent Charlie's Angels film none of the women look like action heroes.

Often they will opt for politics rather than interesting story lines and characters. Interesting characters are flawed ones and usually female characters now are presented as perfect.

Ironically if you watch films from the 40's to 60's you see some actual tough women, especially in Westerns and Film Noir. These women will fight and scheme if necessary to get what they want and protect their own. They are still feminine though and interesting.

Woke has a hierarchy and Straight White men are at the bottom of the heap.

That said men have always been marginalized in TV shows in particular. In the 90's you had Everyone Loves Raymond and Home Improvement where both husbands are the ones making the money and have stay at home wives yet they are presented as incompetent buffoons who always get it wrong and need constant guidance.

In Mad About You, the wife appears to hate the husband.

The 80's seem to be fairer on husbands with most shows having a more family oriented approach, although as another poster pointed out The Cosby Show has the Doctor husband being shown up as a buffoon too. But even back to the days of The Honeymooners you see the bufoon husband.

I think the effect of the modern media on boys and men is that more males are walking away. The MGTOW movement for example is about that. Men just walking away and doing their own thing rather than worrying about trying to find a place in a society that is always demonizing them.

Also good to see a new member who is genuine.

reply

>Characters in TV shows in particular now will deliver political speeches rather than meaningful dialogue they will even wear t shirts with political slogans on them to drive the message home. Even in historical set shows like Vikings you see legions of petite Shield Maidens in hand to hand combat with huge men. In the most recent Charlie's Angels film none of the women look like action heroes.

Are you referring to Vikings Valhalla or the original Vikings with Travis Fimmel?

>Often they will opt for politics rather than interesting story lines and characters. Interesting characters are flawed ones and usually female characters now are presented as perfect.

This just isn't remotely true in almost any modern show I've watched.

The old sitcom dumb-dad trope is dying just on the back of sitcoms dying anyway.

reply

"Also good to see a new member who is genuine."

Thanks!

reply

Just finished this and it seems like an ideal submission for this thread: https://moviechat.org/tt1206543/Out-of-the-Furnace It has a male dominated cast of A-list actors, all of whom put in strong performances and it's pretty much testosterone fueled. It definitely runs the gamut of representations of masculinity, from poignant brotherly love, love between a father and son, to extreme brutality and everything in between. I think it should be rated 7.5/10.

reply

Thanks, will check it out.

reply

There appears to be a lot of infighting between the remnants of, "the sickening clique." Like Jesus said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwbGjzF3mB0

reply

Noted. ☻

reply

NOBODY IS FIGHTING...JUST DROPPING POSTS...HOW ARE YOU DB?...WE DON'T TALK MUCH...ANYTHING NEW OR EXCITING GOING ON WITH YOU?...IT'S RAINING HERE...ALI AND I ARE WATCHING MOVIES AND CHILLING.

reply

The Doobie Brothers may be a great band, but everything pales into insignificance once you’ve heard this: -

https://youtu.be/7-NOZU2iPA8?si=dBnWFfULTbcOBP9p

reply

[deleted]

There are plenty of positive male characters in movies and TV series, but I have noticed a few writers believe a feminist position means denigrating men. They're clueless writers who believe that's what women want to see.

"Return of a Jedi" is a good example especially with the Poe and Finn characters. Funny scene is when Poe asks a question and gets chewed out by the new female leader. Very over-the-top.

Another example is Barbie. An MC poster wrote that it's about an incel Ken which is true.

On the other hand, men need to learn how to SHARE the spotlight with women. Too many men scream "Woke" if a movie or series stars a woman. Recent attacks against "The Acolyte" and a couple of the Marvel movies are examples. Respect works both ways!

reply

You're quite right - it needs to go both ways. In many ways, these overreactions (both on the part of the men you mention and the feminist creators) are part of a much larger cultural and political shift over the last decade. Nuance is being lost and it seems to be almost impossible to discuss anything publicly without it devolving into a shrill, insulting, zero-sum quarrel. We're all so sensitised to the possibility of being insulted or demeaned, or losing status in some way, that we leap down each other's throats.

reply