MovieChat Forums > The Handmaid's Tale (2017) Discussion > how are the MEN okay with any of this?

how are the MEN okay with any of this?


The first season, which was based on the actual book, definitely kept me in suspense, but I still have several major problems with the premise. I think we can safely assume that by far the majority of Gilead's population are not religious fundamentalists, right? So you already have half of your population - the women - who are against the existing regime (or the vast majority of them, at least). That already makes for a precarious situation.

But what I also don't understand is how the majority of *men* are okay with any of this. It's not just the women who have no rights in this society, men's rights are severely curtailed also - there is (obviously) no freedom of speech or expression, no freedom of movement, they are even forced into arranged marriage to someone they've never seen before.

Women used to be people they had fun experiences with - dating (whereas now they can't even talk to women), travel, entertainment (how is it that Gilead has literally zero things going on in terms of entertainment, btw?) and sex for pleasure, as opposed to just procreation, but now every man is suddenly a tyrant who wants nothing but unquestioning obedience from a woman and a psychopath who is capable of hitting any woman with the butt of his rifle??

I also don't understand how all the men seem to be in the military - what about the country's industry, technology, pharmaceuticals? Especially considering that most of the civilized world refuses to even trade with them? I also can't say I understand what the "unwomen" in the colonies are doing, exactly. What is the purpose of breaking those rocks?

In other words, my overall take is that it makes for a nice scary story, but there are just too many holes in it.

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isn't that north korea though , not much tech, men in military

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Some people would argue that this TV Series is primarily not entertainment but propaganda professionally wrapped up in an entertaining context. And (is it is often the case with left-wing ideologies) it's easy to make a statement or develop a theory but it's hard to back it up with the facts of everyday life or without ignoring certain crucial details.

Others would say that this show is actually deliberately done to scare the viewers. Such shows help to maintain status quo by telling the viewers in a non-verbal way: Look what could happen if you're not careful enough and go against the current state.

Anyways don't look for perfect logic in it )) If you're OK with enjoying the show - just let all the logical incoherences slide.

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That was a touching moment for me though when the American refugees in Canada started singing "America the Beautiful" in that bar - something none of those people would have probably EVER done voluntarily in the course of their normal lives in the US.

Reminds us just how much we take for granted when the country is there - people can complain about it, criticize the government, etc, but ultimately they have pretty comfortable lives anyway.

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Nothing beats a similar scene in 'The Deer Hunter' though ;))

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I never saw it...

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There are places like Jezebels where they do things for pleasure, but it's not out in the open. Most of Gilead in what used to be the plains is a wasteland, like what we see in the colonies. They are trying to dig away the toxic soil so people can grow there again. They look to their religion, which tells them their previous way of life is what caused all this destruction, and came to believe their survival depends on their faith. Take the men, put guns in their hands and call them guardians, they will believe what they do is critical to the survival of everyone. Take religion and make it law, and they now have justification that they are doing the right thing.

Well, we know everyone isn't all in on this idea, but enough of them in power are true believers to hold it together. And the ones who don't believe, they have different incentives to keep up appearances. Some might not want to give up their relatively comfortable lives. Some are afraid to collaborate and start a revolt because they have no idea how many out there would join, and anyone who overhears could turn them in.

Or others are in a situation like June- remember Lydia took her out and showed her the people hanging on the wall and told her those were the people who tried to help her escape. Then she said June would be executed like that after she has the baby, June is the one responsible, but Offred was not. Offred had a place in the world, without their blood on her hands. She makes the choice to be Offred as sort of a penance to herself for getting those people killed, but she is also grateful to be given the choice and keep her place in that world. Since then, she has sorta gone back to being June, but she's taking a slightly different approach by going directly to the people who have power over her and appealing to their humanity, and so far getting some mixed results.

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I just don't think the Gilead takeover could have been successful in the first place if most people are against that way of life. Where women aren't allowed to read to the point that the street signs are all taken off (how do they drive in Gilead, btw? Do they put coordinates in their GPS or something??)

And I would think the female children aren't even taught to read and write? Because what would be the point?

It really bothers me that (except for June's husband) every time they show a formerly American man who is against the Gilead regime, that man is gay - as if the straight men are all for it.

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You don't need a majority in favor of something to take place. You just need a powerful or influential minority especially if they're in control of the military and communications. Then the majority ends up going along in order to survive and any dissent is dealt with. It happens all the time. It's happening now.

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Last season it went into some of how it happened. It was incremental, like one day enough of them were in the legislature to pass a law that closed the bank accounts of women. Then women started getting laid off their jobs. A lot of people got out of the country, but once they had control of the military, they shut down travel and started executing protesters in the streets.

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It usually happens that way. That's why people have to fight back from the very start of injustice.

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Take a good hard look at the state of Muslim theocracies. Not so much different. The men there loathe their wives and treat them like garbage.

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But they never lived in a free country to begin with. My question was about the revolution that led to the creation of the state of Gilead. I can't imagine many people supporting it.

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The Muslims that come to free liberal countries to wage jihad against them after they've been provided with everything western society has to offer, contradicts what you're saying. The idea that everyone is just going to kindly embrace the freedom and prosperity that we have to offer is a myth. You might want to research Iran prior to the revolution. It was a free country as well and then fundamentalism took over. Same thing that's happening now with Turkey. It's becoming increasingly more militant in their religious totalitarianism. You're wrong to assume that our society is the default and that everyone wants a slice. That's jut not the case.

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The muslims moving to western countries were not born and raised there, they are heavily indoctrinated since birth. I've seen plenty of women here in the US in full burka, whereas you'd be hard-pressed to find a woman born in a western country who would voluntarily be willing to wear one.


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I totally agree with you. It's just not possible that they would have had the numbers to pull off the coup in the first place.

I live in the bible belt and am acquainted with Christian fundamentalist and, while pro life and anti gay marriage, there's nothing else that would behoove them to support the misogamy and antiquated beliefs and punishments of the Gilead zealots. Even the wacky Westboro Baptist church wouldn't support it... and they hate everybody.
Gilead would just be considered a cult and then terrorist after any violent efforts to gain control. And there'd never be enough of them accomplish that goal anyway..Never happen

Like you said before..this isn't an Islamic state where people were indoctrinated into this philosophy for generations and that makes a big difference.
So we just have to pretend it could happen and go from there.

I do wonder about those that got trapped there though. You know, those that might have thought it would all blow over..until it's too late and they couldn't leave.That's sort of reminiscent of the Jews etc in WWII.

But where are those regular guys in Gilead now? Are they like Nick? All we really see are the Commanders and the guardians and Doctors so it would be interesting to see what they're doing and how they're handling it. It doesn't take too much for them to get hung on a wall too so they can't be too careful.
I don't know of any regular men that would be enjoying the world of Gilead..

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I just told you that Iran and turkey both had more freedom previously, and embraced muslim fundamentalism of their own free will.

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The women in Persia (now Iran) were free and lived a western lifestyle before the Islamic revolution and within a couple of months they were second class citizens, thrown out of schools and universities, force to wear Muslim head to foot clothing and no rights.

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Handmaid's Tale is based on America's Puritan history and its present day influence. I think you're missing the point that there's a crisis going on in which couples cannot procreate. Under those extreme circumstances, people are going to find a way to have kids. Society has basically legitimized kidnapping and rape (the only way to still have kids) and cloaked it under the will of God through religion which is what Americans would use because of its Puritanical pass. Justification is needed in order to make something immoral tolerable or accepted. Americans tend to use religion for that purpose.

The rich are the one's with power. They are exploiting the rest of Americans by kidnapping their kids and rapping women. Hmm, rich and powerful exploiting the lower classes. That sounds like reality to me.

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there's a crisis going on in which couples cannot procreate

You mean it somehow escaped you that people are now having children later and later in life (if at all)?..


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95%+ women in American society are not infertile like they are in Gilead. Are you watching this show at all?

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Weren't you talking about the current situation in the US in that analogy?

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No, I was replying to your original post about the premise of the show. I was only repeating what the author said about basing it on America's puritanical past.

Another point that the author made is that everything you see in the show has happened to women. People allow themselves to be manipulated which is why we end up with totalitarian governments like Gilead. The author is only saying it would have a religious slant because of America's puritanical past which still effects present culture.

I didn't want to get into Trump, but he's manipulated people into believing that freedom of the press, freedom of expression and freedom of speech are wrong. He's convinced people that the FBI, CIA and our allies like Canada, England, Germany are bad, but autocrats like Putin, Erdoğan and Kim Jong-un are good. He convinced people that it's OK to take nursing babies and toddlers from their mothers and put them in cages. He's convinced people they shouldn't seek the truth by reading as much as possible but instead limit their news source to only what he approves.

People allow themselves to be manipulated and exploited which is why a Gilead could happen. Many totalitarian governments spring from democracies like Turkey, Hitler's Germany and Venezuela. Never assume it couldn't happen here.

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The silent majority here in the USA understand that all news has become opinion.
Fox always was and now CNN and MSNBC has become the same. You can't rely on any one source to get at the truth. And the far left has become just as dangerous as the far right . Extremes are always dangerous.
I see manipulations going on from both sides..

But the religious component is far less effective than what you believe and it's far from a majority. Even those I know that are "pro-life" feel that way because they see it as murder and not as a "sin"..
I am and always be pro choice and am a former classic liberal who has switched to being a centralist. Common sense has flown out the window these days with any "side" and hysteria rules the day.


I know fundamentalist and none support violence or female subjugation.
And I think very few people are blind to the faults of Trump..

After seeing all the havoc going on in Europe after opening the gates people are rightfully a little worried. If one dismisses the cost on the economy then the hypocrisy and human rights violations of those that follow Sharia law is worrisome. If rape and female subjugation is a worry to anyone then it's something to worry about.

Most countries do have legalities and hoops that one must go through to live in their country. I know...I've been checking out different countries.

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You're confusing news with political commentary. Fox, CNN and CNBC are really political commentary channels - not news.

If you want news, then you can find well-balanced sources with news services such as Reuters, Associated Press and Agence France-Presse. International news sources are good too since you get a different point of view.

"And I think very few people are blind to the faults of Trump."
Yet he has a 88% approval rating among Republicans.

The anti-abortion crowd lost their credibility when they supported placing children in cages after separating them from their parents.

Trump has you seeing a Muslim boogeyman under your bed. Creating fear is one of the ways he manipulates people. Hate is the other. Dictators playbook. Very predictable.

"Most countries do have legalities and hoops that one must go through to live in their country."
Yet it was OK for his present wife to work here illegally.

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No, I'm not confusing anything.
International news sources is where I see issues in the UK, France and Sweden with immigration not vetted..

The biggest issue here in the USA is the divisiveness created between the left and the right by the media and the government..thus pushing them both to be more extreme.

If you really feel it's logical to equate the issues in the USA to some countries where women have genital mutilation, are not allowed to work at all or leave their house without permission of a male relative, are not allowed to leave the country, are not allowed to show their face, are not allowed to own any property, must have a witness to prove they were raped, may even be blamed and shamed if they are raped, may be put to death if they are unfaithful even if they really weren't, may have their own father or brother or husband participate in their harsh punishment or murder if they don't comply ....
then you are free to make these leaps in logic.
No one here will stop you from that.

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My reference to saying you were confused was about your comment that CNBC, Fox and CNN were news. The reason why they are presenting opinion is because they're not news, but political commentary channels. Similar shows used to be only on the radio like The Bob Grant Show, Rush Limbaugh, Lynn Samuels and Matt Drudge to name a few. Now they moved to television and the internet.

Divisiveness always existed but I agree that politicians - especially Trump - and greedy media outlets are taking advantage and fueling it. It doesn't help that critical thinking skills are not taught in this country.

"Not vetted"? Provide a link to your international source.

There are two women. Woman A is stabbed to death. Woman B is raped. By your argument, women B wasn't abused because she's still alive. My argument is that the abuse may not be as extreme, but it's still abuse.

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