MovieChat Forums > The Old Man (2022) Discussion > portraying cia as the good guy- is this ...

portraying cia as the good guy- is this sci-fi?


fantasy maybe?

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No intelligence agency is good or bad. They are what their government wants them to be.

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And I think that was his point. Did the US government ever seem good to you? :D

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The US government is not a static entity and every administration has had different priorities.
Also there are real human monsters in our world and, while secret services tend to gravitate towards shady shit, someone has to protect our docile crumbling empires from barbarians and hungry young predators.

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"The US government is not a static entity and every administration has had different priorities."

Correct, and most of those had not been "for the good of the people". Specially the ones that CIA is in charge off - there is a reason they are secret (and not just to be shielded from the "enemy").

"while secret services tend to gravitate towards shady shit,"

Correct again

"someone has to protect our docile crumbling empires from barbarians and hungry young predators."

That should be the military forces. CIA should be ONLY an extension of the military forces, unfortunately they have extended in ... everything.

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I don't know the history of the Agency good enough to judge but there is no way a large country can function and protect its citizens without something LIKE the CIA. And these organizations tend to be either frighteningly competent and manipulative or totally useless. I don't know which is worse.


And, in my opinion, the worst thing about the CIA's work in Afghanistan was the fact that they helped to usher the latest comeback of Islamic purists and to birth a new bunch of jihadi outfits all over the world.

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Where do you think the CIA has done good?

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The were the first ones into Afghanistan in 2001.

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Yeah, and that really worked out well, didn't it?

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True enough, they did some great work, and were able to find and take out the Taliban leaders in short order.

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Yeah, and who runs Afghanistan today?

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Not those guys.

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The Taliban, yeah, those guys.

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Nope, not the ones they caught, and killed.

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The ones today are worse.

So, Ackbar ... are you Muslim?

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Yes

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[deleted]

The CIA is one of the worst actors on the world stage, responsible for plenty of death, destruction, and crime. See Bay of Pigs, Air America, Iraq, Syria, and Lybia, just to name a few. They had one real win, and they were so proud of themselves, they allowed a movie to be made of it (Zero Dark Thirty)

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Definitely. I can't remember the last time the CIA did something that was in the best interests of the United States of America.

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I would think the CIA’s biggest successes in averting some calamity to America remain secret and unpublished

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LOL, that's what they always say. Seems like if they did some positive stuff in the past, at least some of it might be de-classified by now, don't you think?

Meanwhile, the CIA has been responsible for thousands if not millions of murders of innocent indigenous people in the third world as part of their extorting and bribing corrupt oligarchs and governments to screw their people out of the value of their lands and labor. Seems like you either do not know what you are talking about or are trying to cover for some very bad stuff.

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No one’s taking your bait. Maybe go fishing on the politics board?

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By no one is answering, you mean you are evading a plain and direct question - because you're full or poopoo aren't you?

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Oh, I thought the question rhetorical just to seize on my passing conjecture as an opportunity to be needlessly condescending which is your calling card. Look, I’m no CIA historian but an example might be the 1980 events depicted 20 years later in Argo by Antonio Mendez who was a pretty heroic CIA operative.

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Iran was not a CIA victory.

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Neither was Libya. No justifiable reason why the CIA would incite a coup in one of the most prosperous and peaceful countries in the Arab world. The coup stalled out and Western militaries finished the job. Never gave us a reason why they did it. Anyway, now Libya is a barbarian infested wasteland with literal slave trading

https://edition.cnn.com/specials/africa/libya-slave-auctions

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> No justifiable reason why the CIA would incite a coup in one of the most prosperous and peaceful countries in the Arab world.

I think you need to understand America's toxic need to ensure that all alternate systems fail so that the propaganda about free-market capitalism being the only successful system.

It is not enough to leave alternates alone and ignore then, they are actively opposed and fought against to the death.

One that possibility of difference or change is taken seriously, the question of why is the US not doing it if it works, or why is the discussion not open. Or how do you keep American citizens from demanding better. This is active manipulation and brainwashing.

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[deleted]

There are a ton of videos by former CIA agents describing what the CIA is, how it works, what it has done wrong. Few seem to conclude saying that it is necessary. I think it is necessary, but what is also certain is that any secret police organization is going to evolve towards corruption and expansion of its power and budget. You can start by looking up John Stockwell videos on YouTube.

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Are you kidding? They frigging made a movie about their one big win in the last few decades

https://moviechat.org/tt1790885/Zero-Dark-Thirty

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[deleted]

Also, the Fast and Furious debacle was the brainchild of the CIA. Plenty of news about the guns and subsequent murders, but hear little about the CIA clearing the way for a cartel to fly a 747 full of cocaine into the U.S.

"In an effort to prevent a Los Zetas takeover, Uncle Sam has gotten into bed with the rival Sinaloa cartel, which has close ties to the Mexican military. Recent court filings by former Sinaloa cartel member Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla, currently in U.S. custody, reveal that the United States allowed the Sinaloas to fly a 747 cargo plane packed with cocaine into American airspace - unmolested.

The CIA made sure the trade wasn’t one-way. It persuaded the ATF to create Operation Fast and Furious - a “no strings attached” variation of the agency’s previous firearms sting. By design, the ATF operation armed the Mexican government’s preferred cartel on the street level near the American border, where the Zetas are most active."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/11/was-cia-behind-operation-fast-and-furious/

So they allowed a fucking 747 full of drugs into America and then gave a shit-ton of guns to cartels that ended up being used to kill dozens of people, including an American. Again, it seems like this alphabet agency is working against us more than for us.

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[deleted]

Yes, because you were unable to point to anything of value the CIA provides to civilization (outside of Bin laden), while I can point to several instances where they severely harm it.

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[deleted]

I am asking you to do no such thing. There is plenty of evidence out there on the deeds of the CIA. Also, if they were going to keep anything secret, you would think they would start with their fuck-ups, of which plenty are well documented.

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[deleted]

Guess you never heard about the Rockefeller Commission.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_President%27s_Commission_on_CIA_Activities_within_the_United_States

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Jesus Christ, this argument is two months old, give it a rest already. If I delete all my posts, will you dummies shutup about it???

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Are you really defending the CIA?

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My last comment is a year old and I deleted all the rest. Are you fucking serious???

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You think it wise to get angry at me for that question eh? From your own actions. Hmmm. You usually come off as wise and sensible.

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A) This discussion is 2yrs old.
B) I deleted all my comments but one.

So, what are you talking about? Because I have no idea what I posted that I deleted.

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I posed a simple question. Your subsequent behavior is puzzling.

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You posed a simple question based on what? What prompted this question?

Further, if I already deleted my comments, which I have absolutely no clue what they were, do you think I want to delve back into this bullshit a year later?

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Start with answering the question and we'll move on.

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If I don't remember what my DELETED comments were from two years ago, how can I answer that question?

Now answer mine.

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Half the conversation remains, enough for me to ask the question.

So you can't remember your position on the CIA two years ago? And very little has changed on the political scene since then. Then suddenly a 180. Strange.

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I have no fucking clue what the content of this conversation was 2yrs ago. Bark up another tree.

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good question does show how they can spy on you when they want too

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