MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Why I Loved Luke's Character Change

Why I Loved Luke's Character Change

posted 6 years ago by JesGuy (26)
57 replies | jump to latest

This is just my take. I loved this movie.

Will not be replying to comments like, "Why can't you just admit the movie sucks?!"

Don't be a dumbshit.

Much in the same way Sarah Connor changed radically between Terminator and T2: Judgement Day. She even had a moment of weakness where she almost murdered Miles Dyson in front of his wife and son. She even shot the guy! Then she realizes that she became a Terminator...and backs down before it was too late. I didn't feel this was a betrayal of her established character from the first film.

Imagine how boring T2: Judgement Day would have been without that character arc.

If Luke was this all-perfect, all-powerful God amongst Jedis---Force-Yanking Star Destroyers out of the sky, or Force-Crushing At-Ats might sound cool...at first. But what possible conflict could the writers come up with that make for an interesting story?? If Luke Skywalker could just BLINK the First Order out of existence---What story is left for the other characters in this VAST, SPRAWLING Galaxy??

This isn't Luke's "Journey". It mainly belongs to Rey and Kylo Benjamin. The reason for this is because Luke's main hero journey---is in the past. He did it! He became a Jedi, and redeemed his father. Yay!!!

40 years later...I'm SOOO relieved that Luke Skywalker had struggles and failures later in life. Luke the Jedi-God would've been really uninteresting, and not really something I could relate to. I could relate to Luke the aspiring Jedi who wants to save his Dad.

If you want Luke Skywalker to appear in these new movies, don't you want him to be interesting and relatable??? I sure as hell don't want a boring Luke Skywalker. And the fact that people are STILL arguing this movie nearly two months later (especially those who "claim" to despise it)---I'd say the film succeeded in refreshing Luke's character.

If you wanted Luke the Jedi-God immortalized on the big screen---I don't know what to tell ya. Shrug.

Now cue the HATE!! (That leads to the dark side ya know.)

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

Sarah Connor's character progression made sense - she was just an ordinary woman in T1 but the events of that film brutalised her and led to her turning into the badass we got in T2.

Luke's 'progression' on the other hand has him turn into the very opposite of the character as it had been known. Pessimistic instead of optimistic, cynical instead of a believer, and hardest of all to swallow, into someone who considered murdering his nephew based on a hunch. This was a character that was prepared to die rather than killing one of the most evil men in the universe as he believed he had some good in him and now apparently he's not above planning to murderer a close relative, the child of his best friend - wait for it - while they slept! And we all just have to accept this as it happened largely off screen and not in part VII (as JJA was too cowardly to try anything save for ripping off ANH).

Now it's possible that Luke could have changed dramatically in 30 odd years but to become the *opposite* character? It's not an impossible story to tell and it could have worked brilliantly but for that to be the case they had. to. tell. it. If this was the story it should have been what part VII was about, not some Death Star knock off or a map maguffin.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Firstly, I'd disagree with your idea of Luke's character "as it had been known". At the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke is hiding under the stairs, refusing to fight his father. Vader taunts him with his own feelings. Luke is sitting there trying desperately to resist the urge to just go ape-shit with a lightsaber. It's only when Vader threatens to tempt Leia to the dark side does Luke...go ape-shit with a lightsaber.

"Only your HATRED can destroy me!" Vader to Luke, Empire Strikes Back.

So Luke hacks away at a distressed Vader, who falls backwards to the ground, gripping the railing for dear life. Luke is RAGING-OUT on his beloved father. Luke has tapped into the dark side in order to overpower Vader. Luke had clearly won, but his rage kept him focused.

Luke sure didn't seem like a Optimistic Believer when he whacked his old-man's hand off - wait for it - while he was down and defeated!

It wasn't until the Emperor complimented Luke on a job well done, snapping Luke out of the foggy dark side. "Now take your father's place at my side!" Luke compare's Vader's wiry stump to his own robotic hand. Boom! Luke was an optimistic believer---until tempted by the dark side---had a moment of weakness---and learned from it.

So I'd argue that Luke did NOT become "the very opposite of the character as it had been known." As you can see, if you're talking about who Luke was as a character in ending moments of Return of the Jedi...he flip-flopped from optimistic believer---to pessimistic cynic---to optimistic believer again. And thank goodness for that interesting character arc! Wouldn't have been the same without it.

But now I just invalidated my entire original argument! Bwahahahahaha!

To clarify---All I've been reading lately is how Luke has changed into something un-Luke-like. So my original topic "Why I Loved Luke's Character Change" is probably better stated, "Why I Loved Luke's Character Arc in The Last Jedi".

I think it was very Luke-like.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

You make a good stab at it but you can't compare Luke momentarily giving into anger while fighting one of the most evil men in the galaxy (who was also taunting him with his plans to corrupt his sister) to planning to bump his nephew off in his sleep. *Especially* as he's been there - he faced his demons and the lesson of Jedi is pretty much 'love wins'. So why the hell would a guy who's been through that even contemplate murdering a loved one for crimes not yet committed?

Look, like I said, it is possible to tell that character's transition - and it was pretty ballsy of Rian to try - but in the end they didn't come close to convincingly telling that story. If they had Rian from the start and not that hack JJ maybe it would have worked but they didn't and it didn't.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Again...if Luke had NO MORE DEMONS TO FACE---Why do you want him in these movies???

Maybe you didn't! I dunno. But you knew he'd be in it from the end of Force Awakens, sooo.

Did you really think a grizzled aging Luke Skywalker---who HID AWAY FROM THE GALAXY after something really bad happened---would be Demon-free??? Why would you expect him to be anything less???

The dude knows he's regarded as this Mythical Legend all over the galaxy, even in the lowliest of places like Jakku. How humiliating it must be knowing that HE is responsible for nudging his nephew ALL the way over to the dark side. So he ran away.

He didn't run away for no reason!

Now there's an argument to be made about the questionable choices in the Force Awakens---like why does Luke run away and hide---but leave map pieces behind like a scavenger hunt. But that's a fundamental flaw set up in the first film.

Also, as I read some of these posts, I notice people seem to forget or overlook one huge fact. Luke DIDN'T kill his nephew.

Again, an argument could be made that we needed to SEE a little more of the build-up that LED to that event. But as I still have a working brain between my ears, I can work it out.

We see it from Kylo's POV---CrAzY-wIlD-eYeD LuKe!! Then we see it from Luke's POV---Sad and Fearful and Tempted to do something Bad. But doesn't. Cause even though he can see what Ben Solo will become---and Luke is terrified of the past repeating itself---Even in a moment of weakness, Luke knows HE'S the good guy.

And sadly turns Kylo into the monster Luke desperately wanted to prevent.

CONFLICT!! If you're going to get the amazing Mark Hamill to don the Jedi robes again, you'd better give him something to work with.

You say "it is possible to tell that character's transition - and it was pretty ballsy of Rian to try - but in the end they didn't come close to convincingly telling that story."

So how should it have been told? If you DIDN'T want that story, then what conflict should Luke have confronted??

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

"How should it have been told?" I've already answered that - it should have been told in part VII. This is why this trilogy is fucked on a strategic level: to try to hide his cinematic thievery JJ made part VIII and just called it VII leaving the next film to both continue the story and fill in all the blanks, which was always going to be difficult.

I would have been very happy to see Luke fall from grace (keeping the peace is very different to winning it) but if you're going to undo the events that you spent three films doing you'd better make damn sure you do a good job of that.

If Disney had taken the time to plan any kind of story that actually linked their new trilogy together instead of trying to recoup their investment in record time I am sure you'd have a lot less pissed off Star Wars fans.

As it is, there seems to be millions of people out their that are happy to do their job for them, to flesh out the script in their own minds so it makes sense, to make excuses for a billion dollar corporation that couldn't be bothered to get it right first time.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

So the crux of your issue has more to do with the too-quick execution of making The Force Awakens. Okay. I get it. In some ways I agree with you. But not enough to suck my enjoyment from the ones they did make.

I liked The Force Awakens for pretty much the same reasons everyone did. Yeah, yeah...it was pretty much a shot-for-shot nostalgic callback to A New Hope. And I generally agree with the consensus and give it a pass. I just don't care. As said by others, "It really brings that old classic Star Wars feeling." And that just warmed my nostalgic heart.

Now I didn't spend two years pouring through YouTube videos for theories, but I would on occasion think about what-ifs. After a while I noticed most of my thoughts seemed to follow the EXACT SAME FORMULA as the original trilogy. Luke trains Rey like Yoda trained him. Snoke manipulates Kylo Ren while actually wanting Rey to supplant him.

What about Finn's backstory as a child-slave-Stormtrooper-trainee---thought THAT might be a cool avenue to explore. Did he have friends? What about that trooper from Awakens who wiped the blood across his forehead. Did Finn know him?

This was the kind of stuff I was curious about after watching Force Awakens. I didn't care about Rey's parents---Especially since they SAID Rey's parents were nobodies IN THE FORCE AWAKENS.

Maz Kanata says to her, "Dear child. I see your eyes. You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku... they're never coming back." Did everyone get selective amnesia??

Went on a tangent. (You didn't say anything about Rey's parentage.)

Back to your points. So Disney should be held to a higher standard than George Lucas? You act like the original trilogy had this grandiose master plan! It didn't. Leia makes out with her brother?? Come on.

Movies are being made faster, and more are released every year. That's just the evolution of the business. Competition. Be happy you're getting Star Wars movies, period.

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

Yes, I think Disney should be held to a higher standard. Maybe that's not rational but I can cut George some slack when it comes to his own creation; I don't feel the need to be forgiving to an organisation that stumps up $4 Billion and then sets about dismantling the world they've just bought.

And I never said the original trilogy was planned, I just said the new one should have been. We're now in a bizarre situation where an unplanned trilogy feels a 10 times more cohesive than one with years to plan and a budget 20 times the size.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

I'd argue---What choices did Rian Johnson have?

The Force Awakens was---for all intents and purposes here---a soft remake of A New Hope.

Rian Johnson could've taken the next entry and did it EXACTLY like Empire Strikes Back. Luke trains Rey. Her friends go to a floating city and get betrayed by one of Poe's old war buddies. Perhaps Finn gets frozen in carbonite. Rey cuts training short. She leaves to rescue her friends. She has a showdown with Kylo Ren. He reveals to her that she's his long lost sister (or some shit like that). And so on... And so on... And so on...

Do you see the problem here?

Rian Johnson took the expected script and flipped it on its head. NOW---

---The next guy (J.J. Abrams as it turns out) is forced to come up with something COMPLETELY NEW AND ORGINAL!

DAH-DAHH-DAHHHHH!!!

I swear I'm scratching my head at this. Why is this a bad thing again???

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

If you think JJ Abrams is going to come up something completely new and original then you're going to be disappointed.

[–] FFNogoodnik (774) 6 years ago

It wasn't until the Emperor complimented Luke on a job well done, snapping Luke out of the foggy dark side. [/quote]

Here is where you fail.

Luke did not snap out of it when the Emperor complimented him on a job well done, he snapped out of it when he had cut off Vader's hand, looked at his own mechanical hand and and realized the future that following his anger was going to take him. In Vader he saw that future as plain as day. THAT is why he threw his saber away and said "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

[quote]Luke's main hero journey---is in the past. He did it! He became a Jedi, and redeemed his father. Yay!!!

Yes, and by having Luke no longer hold to those Jedi principles Rian Johnson basically made Luke's entire arc of the original trilogy useless.

It is comparable to a movie where you follow a drug addict's journey to being clean through all of the suffering and the damage he does to himself and others. You saw him fight and become clean. That is his journey being a success is why you tell the story because if the addict failed then there is not story. You do not make a sequel where that addict falls back on drugs and you especially do not do it for a reason that only serves to make another character look better.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Says who? You?

If you're gonna go with the Drug Addict analogy---Drug Addicts FREQUENTLY back slide.

I feel like a broken record here, but I'll say it again---Do ya want Luke Skywalker in the sequels, or dontcha???

If your answer's No---I get it. Nothing can live up to the originals. All that stuff.

If your answer's Yes---What kind of Luke Skywalker do you really want to see? What would've been satisfying to you? A flawless God-Jedi who knocks all the At-At's down like dominoes with a wave of his hand??? Why have new movies at all? Luke can just "think" all conflicts away like Dr. Manhattan. Shrug. Whoa. I'm bowled over with thrilling CGI spectacle.

Again, these new movies AIN'T Luke's. It was always belonged to Rey, Kylo Ren, Finn, and Poe. Han, Luke, and Leia were ALWAYS gonna be there in a supporting capacity. If you thought otherwise, you were really fooling yourself.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

"Now it's possible that Luke could have changed dramatically in 30 odd years"

Yeah. I'm not even CLOSE to the same person I was 20 years ago. Not only is it possible, it's highly likely that Luke would change in 30 to 40 years.

"but to become the *opposite* character?"

Is he??? LoL

Now I do agree that---had they shown a tad more of the build-up that led Luke to stand by his nephew's bed contemplating striking him down---MAY have helped flush out that storyline a bit for some people...?? But they didn't. Maybe they'll reveal more in episode 9. Depends on what story they're wanting to tell.

But I'm not gonna spend the next two years bouncing between Youtube videos, discussing "theories" and making predictions.

I'm just thrilled they are making new Star Wars movies AT ALL.

[–] grindovermatter (380) 6 years ago

Thank you, spot on.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Thanks. The vitriol is crazy.

[–] janelsenor (2042) 6 years ago

It was probably how he would have behaved if any of his previous impulsive moves resulted in such disaster.

Luke often acted impulsively when it came to saving his friends. He left Dagobah and ran to Bespin to save his friends with no plan. Luckily, this move did not result in disaster or the death of his friends who had to rescue him.

He impulsively attacked Vader with the Dark Side when Leia was threatened. Luckily, Palpatine taunted Luke, giving him that moment to reflect. Luke was able to pull himself back and disaster was abated.

In both instances, luck was on Luke's side and his impulsive moves did not result in disaster.

This time, he impulsively ignited his lightsaber when he saw the darkness in Ben's mind, most likely darkness that involved the destruction of Luke's friends. This time, Luke wasn't so lucky. This impulsive move resulted in disaster....

This isn't even a NEW failing for Luke. It's his old character flaw. His luck just ran out.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

This.

[–] Sirap (42) 6 years ago

The problem is that the sequels are just reboots of the OT. Ray is now Luke and Luke is Yoda. His backstory is unimportant.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

Still using this sock too?

[–] Sirap (42) 6 years ago

Too? This is the only account I'm using, pancakes. How about yourself, keeping your feet happy?

"perfectly unpretentious backbone of the board"

[–] Frogarama (12942) 6 years ago

You posted this reply 8 hours ago.

EXACTLY as predicted, your other account posted its first post of the day 8 hours ago when it posted the number "101." Its last post before that was 20 hours ago.

Not as suspected -- as predicted -- and so exactly. I with we could see actual time codes here because I bet the posts were within minutes of each other.

Thank you for helping me do this test.

[–] Sirap (42) 6 years ago

Way to go, Nancy Drew.

So somebody posted the same hour as me...and you actually take that as evidence for us being the same person?
Wow you totally got me there, lol.

[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 6 years ago

Luke wouldn't kill the second most evil man in the galaxy because he felt there was still good in him. This is the guy who slaughtered innocent children, blew up planets, served up his best friend to Jabba the Hutt and cut his hand off. Yet he all of a sudden has no problem killing his own nephew in his sleep because he is sensing bad vibes?

That was f-cking stupid.

[–] janelsenor (2042) 6 years ago

Actually, when threatened with the possibility of turning Leia, Luke did try to kill Vader.

Palpatine, in his overconfidence, decided to jeer at Luke. Unfortunately for Palps, this caused Luke to pause and reflect on the path he was on.

But Luke's initial impulse was to attack Vader in anger and kill him.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Where in the movie did Luke Skywalker KILL HIS NEPHEW???

[–] mitzibishi (1629) 6 years ago

Didnt even bother consulting his sister and best friend about it. Straight to the hut on a whim and a tingle to murder his nephew who hasnt done shit yet.

Unsheave a very loud lightsaber and stand there in the hut right next to a jedi in training.

Not a smart cookie, looks like Luke Skywonka lost a few braincells in all those years.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Gee Mitzi...

Faced with the weight of these two options---Either, billions dead across the galaxy, versus a quick fix of killing just one guy---seems less whimsical tingle, and more HOLY SHIT BILLIONS DEAD!! PANIC!! LIGHTSABER!! RARR!!

And riiight. In that specific circumstance, Luke will consult with his sister and bff about, "Hey guuuys! Sooo, what's your all's take on me ending your kid? How's Chewie?"

...Not an open bakery.

[–] mitzibishi (1629) 6 years ago

"Faced with the weight of these two options---Either, billions dead across the galaxy, versus a quick fix of killing just one guy"

So he chose not to kill him and let billions die accross the galaxy.

Duke Skywonka is pretty dumb.

Your argument here is flawed. You are saying he only chose to do kill him because billions would be killed. But he didnt even kill him so he said "fuck it let them die" which makes him even more stupid.

He didnt even choose to talk to anybody, his sister, his best friend Han, even Kylo. He must have had a bad day and drank to much blue milk that night.

The real Luke would have at least reached out, like he did with Vader who did have a hand in killing Billions, like actually, not on a whim that someone may, Yoda say the future is cloudy, Luke cannot accurately predict the future, Yoda couldnt so Luke cant.

Vader was basically Hitler. Kylo was a kid who did nothing.

The Vader thing totally destroys any points you may have. Destroys them.

Dude even Mark Hamill said it wasnt Luke Skywalker.

"seems less whimsical tingle"

it was a tingle. The kid did nothing. Then walked into his hut like a dumbass on a tingle that he may be bad. Then just stand there with a very loud lightsaber.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mitzibishi (1629) 6 years ago

Im with you.

I definitely believe that this was Luke Skywonka, he even had his oompah loompahs doing his chores back on the island.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

I asked for no dumbsh...

[–] mitzibishi (1629) 6 years ago

Most of your points and rants are dumbsh.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SHOUT THEM!!!??!!1111

[–] CraigJamesReview (1499) 6 years ago

I actually agree with you somewhat. I really liked the Luke-Rey-Kylo storyline and I can see Luke becoming very bitter and wary due to his past and how that might cloud him toward his determination to keep the dark side from rising again. It storyline never felt outside the realm of possibility for me.

I'm trying to go for an entertaining, informative youtube channel so, if you have the time, take a look. Hope you enjoy what you see and if you have any thoughts or criticisms, i'd love to hear them. Thanks in advance. Review right here- https://youtu.be/nerCnafPUm8

[–] sunshine62 (250) 6 years ago

@to Jesguy.

There is nothing wrong in you enjoying the film...there are parts I liked too....

nevertheless ,I don't see how a change of character has anything to do with why Rey and Snoke both sensed conflict still in Kylo (despite he had already murdered his father)and Luke ,somewhat 12 years prior, only sensed an overwhelming darkest in Ben...Luke stopped because he couldn't go thru with killing his nephew, his own flesh and blood , not because at the last moment he saw a sparke of light and he realised he had made a mistake.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Hey sunshine.

Agreed, as there is nothing wrong if you didn't. It's all good. Whatever. There are definitely parts I didn't like, but on the whole---the movie was great!

I was hesitant to throw my hat in this ring. I read someone's post the other day asking the rather ridiculous question, "Where are all the defenders of this movie? It's got such a high rotten tomatoes rating with critics! I don't get it!"---or something to that affect.

By the way---Thanks for presenting your question/observations it in a non-vitriolic way.

It's sadly stupid that I have to THANK someone for being polite.

Based on what I READ...Rian Johnson at first didn't want flashbacks at all. I don't know how that information would've have been conveyed otherwise...?? But anyway...he then decided to film the flashback a certain way. It was a creative decision that possibly put more emphasis on the bedside-lightsaber event than intended.

The Flashback---First from Luke's perspective, we see an edited glimpse of what happened. Second we see the scene play out from Ben's point of view, and Luke looks freaky-scary. Thirdly we see it from Luke's POV, but as it ACTUALLY occurred.

When I saw it, I just assumed that there had been a lead-up to this encounter that we didn't see. I don't think Luke simply walked by Ben's room one night---was suddenly hit with a vision, and in that split second cruised through the guy's door and switched on his lightsaber. Above I said it could be argued that more needed to be shown of the lead-up to Luke standing there in the first place.

Unless there were script rewrites or deleted scenes...I dunno. In this age of Stand-Alone Prequels---Maybe Disney and Mark Hamill will sign on to tell THAT story! LoL

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

That was my post. Not sure why it's ridiculous asking why so few people here actually seem to like it - especially considering the reviews it got. And your post above was exactly the kind of reply I wanted: It wasn't a trick question!

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, or conflating your post with another. If so I apologize.

The reason I was hesitant to post at all is that this board is filled with these crazy notions that if you genuinely loved this movie---flaws and all---YOU'RE A DISNEY SHILL. Or a SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR. Or a FEMINIST.

Crickets.

What...the...eff...are these people talking about?! That's the stupidest crap basket I've ever heard. I ain't got time for that nonsense. And I imagine most other people who enjoyed the movie feel the same.

So these boards and YouTube are filled with vitriol towards anyone who liked The Last Jedi. I don't blame ANYBODY for not chiming in their two-cents.

And when people are posting topics like "Why does Rey HAVE to be Female?"---And laughably taking no other answer that doesn't mirror their own. Petitions for a Episode 8 to be stricken from the Canon. Wtf?? It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so rampant.

I'm all for discussing movies. I LOVE to nit-pick! But discuss the movie.

I hate to break it to some folks, but there happens to be two sexes on this planet. There was a 50/50 shot that a Star Wars trilogy would one day feature a Female protagonist. This "Mary-Sue" crap is obvious. We all know what it's really about. Your not fooling anybody guys.

There's no imaginary CONSPIRACY by Rian Johnson to supplant anyone's childhood. I mean, really??

[–] Arghhhh (804) 6 years ago

No need to apologise, but I appreciate that.

I don't think it's as bad as it seems - and I say that as somebody who has been insulted many times simply for not liking a film I'm told I should. I think what happens is whenever a post is made 3 or 4 people disagree with it and maybe one says something pointless and insulting, then our brains merge them together as how tempting is it to believe that everyone who disagrees with us is a mindless idiot?

I agree with many things you've said but don't you think you're being a bit hypocritical in your second to last paragraph? You're implying that criticism of Rey is solely due to sexism... As you've said, it's ridiculous if people scream SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR but you're essentially accusing thousands of people - including me - of being bigoted, simply because they don't like a character in a movie...

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

Oh...no, no, no...didn't mean to imply that at all.

Please, by all means---Nitpick the shite outta Rey's character!

But once someone uses the term "Mary-Sue"....Dude...

That's not criticism. And those who use it---know it.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 6 years ago

"Mary Sue" is criticism of Rey's character and the writers who created her.

I still fail to see the logic of attributing criticism of the work of two MALE screenwriters to sexism. I don't care whether the plastic character they created pees standing or sitting. The story and script sucked, period. It was horribly lazy and hackish writing.

[–] JesGuy (26) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] TexasJack (12515) 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sunshine62 (250) 6 years ago

by JesGuy:

Based on what I READ...Rian Johnson at first didn't want flashbacks at all. I don't know how that information would've have been conveyed otherwise...??
______________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Jesguy!

He could have had the protagonists just say their point of view without the visual flash-backs ..the events would have had less impact on the viewer ..but that's all Rey got .

Luke actually tells Rey the events that brought him ultimately to Ben's bedside with his lightsaber lit hoving over his sleeping nephew..

Luke says that when Ben woke up he saw the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him...
So Ben was not even expecting Luke to turn on him.

Luke said he saw darkness in Ben ..he sensed it building up in him during his training and then when he looked inside what he saw frightened him and according to Luke , Snoke had already turned Ben ' s heart to the darkside.

This doesn't make sense seeing , some 12 years after, Rey and Snoke ,despite Kylo has already killed his father, still sense that there is conflict in Kylo Ren.

It's just bad writing.. Luke just does what the writer needs him to do even if it doesn't make sense.

a. Darth Vader had totally committeed himself for years to the darkside but Luke just the same believe he could save him.

b. if it's true , that Klyo had turned totally to the darkside (and Rey and Snoke confute this part ), then why did Ben look frightened when he saw Luke over his bed with his ligthsaber .

c.Why didn't Luke go after Snoke and confront him ...try to save Ben....Ben must have been several years under his uncle's care ?

There are too many inconsistencies...the whole Ben/Luke confrontation doesn't stand up to scrutiny .
Rey and Snoke still sensed that Kylo was in conflict and the fact Klyo didn't kill his mother was proof.