Why do people like this movie? - Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015) Discussion

[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

I would say though that the majority of people didn't know it was a remake of ANH. And would also say that most people probably have only seen ANH once in their lifetime and that was about 20 to 30 years ago.

Jar Jar Abrams even said they took the safe route in fear of ruining SW. Its easier to reboot something than to think of something new. Even Star Trek got rebooted in 2009 and that was successful as well.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

I agree that some of the decisions in the prequels didn't work out very well but at least there was some goddamn effort put into it. I have never seen a more lazy movie than the Force Awakens. I would just call it fan fiction but that is an insult to fan fiction. How could no one realize it was A New Hope remake? I realized that 3 minutes in when Poe (aka Princess Leia/Wedge 2.0) put the map in BB-8 (aka R2-D2 2.0).

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

How could no one realize it was A New Hope remake?

First you have to understand what a remake actually is, and TFA is not a remake, not even close. The story is quite different.

Intentional homage =/= remake.

Also, I'm pretty sure most people are quite aware of how similar it is to ANH. I'm not sure where Bubba is pulling that opinion from, that people are unaware.

It sounds like what most haters do: Pretend you know how everyone else thinks.

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[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

An orphan on a sand planet escapes the empire oops I mean first order on the falcon oops I mean Millennium Falcon. Finds a droid R2D2 oops I mean BB-8 with top secret information. Fights off two tie fighters oops I mean first order tie fighters as they leave the planet. Meets up with the rebels oops I mean resistance then visits a cantina oops I mean cantina and learns about the force from yoda oops I mean Maz K. Then Luke oops I mean Rey watches her mentor be killed by Darth Vader oops I mean Kylo Ren. Then lets call her "Rey" helps destroy the death star oops I mean starkiller base by deactivating the shield generator so that x-wings oops I mean x-wings can make a trench run.

Yeah, basically its a brand new story...

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[–] MissTique (26) 7 years ago

@Bubbathegut I wish there was a "Like" button coz I loved your slap-to-the-face oops I mean reply to Frogarama. ;-)

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[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

haha thanks, I am glad someone appreciated the not so slight humor. Unfortunately Froggy doesn't want to read it.

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[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

"Also, I'm pretty sure most people are quite aware of how similar it is to ANH. I'm not sure where Bubba is pulling that opinion from, that people are unaware."

I doubled checked on the internet and apparently your opinion is wrong.

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Yeah, whatever. It's not like it's possible to take your lame posts very seriously in the first place.

Oh and no I'm not going to go through all the responses you just posted to me over the last 20 or 30 minutes. It's not worth my time.

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[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

When presented with facts people always give up and say "Its too much to read." This pretty much happens a lot to me. I enjoy doing the research and presenting facts to back up what I said.

#RSWF

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[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

I hope you at least read what I wrote below, I worked hard on that.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

You two gonna lay down and make snow angels together?

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[–] Bubbathegut (17273) 7 years ago

Maybe, but we are going to see the movie together and share one seat.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Well...that's just...like...your opinion man

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[–] Frogarama (12942) 7 years ago

Yeah she is a Mary Sue she has nothing to overcome, she is perfect at everything so why should I get emotionally invested?

That's not an accurate statement, not even close. You're just parroting the talking points of man-children.

Also, the rest of your rant is badly thought out and very bland.

Lastly, homages to some basics from A New Hope (and ESB and ROTJ) is not the same as a remake. The story here is quite different. This kind of brainless crap, where you say things that have no bearing on reality, really makes you haters look like idiots.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

No she is a Mary Sue, she is already the best pilot, she already knows how to do the mind tricks (something that even Luke couldn't pull off), she is already perfect with a lightsaber and defeated an experienced sith lord. Rey is a bland, emotionless character who is not vulnerable to anything, she is perfect, she is a Mary Sue. The Force Awakens is the EXACT same movie as A New Hope, it copies it plot point for plot point (much like how Home Alone 2: Lost in New York copied the original plot point for plot point), they aren't paying tribute to the originals, they are recycling it because people will go see it for the nostalgia and the fan service.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

And yet...

Temple takes place in India and Raiders takes place in Egypt.

Temple deals with Hinduism and Raiders deals with Christianity.

Temple starts with Indy going incognito in China and Raiders starts with Indy raiding an Incan temple.

The opening action sequence in Temple has an important plot significance and is the reason why Indy ends up in the Himalayas to begin with while the opening actions sequence in Raiders has no bearing on the plot but serves to introduce Indy's character and set up his rivalry with Rene'.

Raiders denies the supernatural until the climax while Temple is more steeped in the supernatural in that we see mind control and a few other things throughout.

Temple has a kid sidekick but Raiders has no kid sidekicks.

Sallah was in Raiders (and Crusade) but not in Temple.

The Nazis appear in Raiders and Crusade but Temple has cultist villains.

Temple has the famous mine cart chase while Raiders doesn't really have a famous chase sequence.

Maroim and Willie are two entirely different characters. Marion was more of a modern heroine who can handle her own while Willie was more of the traditional screaming/fainting female character. This is notable in that one of the criticisms of Temple of Doom is that Willie was too much of a throwback to the pulp novels' depictions of women. Marion is much more of a fan favorite.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

Finn's involvement is certainly the only really unique part of Force Awakens as this is the first time we've seen a Stormtrooper as a major character in the movies. Rey is indeed a Mary Sue, though, but that's hardly a good thing. Saying that Kylo was injured before his duel is a bit of a minor point. You might as well say "Vader is ugly and Kylo isn't".

At the end of the day, there are far fewer similarities between Raiders and Temple than there are of ANH and TFA. I just pointed out that the Indy movies had different settings, plots, characters, themes, villains, and action sequences. You can't say that about those two Star Wars movies.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

Star Wars movies look the same because they're in the same universe. The same goes with Indy movies, the Marvel movies, Harry Potter, etc. Crusade is probably closer to Raiders than Temple is, granted, but you still have the father subplot, his love interest betraying him, and, like Temple, a much more blatant sense of the supernatural among other things.

TFA doesn't look like ANH. It is ANH. It'd be one thing if there was a different set of bad guys who have a resemblance to the Empire. It's another thing if they are essentially the Empire in all but name. It's one thing if they have a base that is round, similar to the Deathstar. It's another thing when they have a Deathstar.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

I meant Temple and Raiders look the same in that they were obviously in the same series. As I said before, they are different where it counts.

I have not heard anyone say Crusade was a Raiders ripoff (usually it is considered the best sequel) but I will admit there are many similarities. Still, Crusade doesn’t involve the Ark of the Covenant and tries something new in that a large chunk of it explored Indy’s mysterious past.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

In ANH, they explain that Vader was a student of Obi-Wan, a former Jedi who killed Luke's father, and was more machine than man (implying he was disfigured). This was because Vader wasn't originally supposed to be Luke's father. We got all the information we needed. I'm not sure how that separates him from Kylo. Especially since we got the same backstory for him: he was a student of Luke's who killed the Jedi trainees and turned to the Dark Side.

I suppose we don't know Rey's origin yet, although if she turns out to be a Skywalker, that doesn't exactly come as any sort of curveball and does nothing to distance her from being seen as an expy of Luke and Anakin. Made all the more obvious when both Vader and Kylo kill their former father figure who, by that point, had become a mentor for a good guy.

As for what counts, seeing Kylo's face isn't as important to the overall story than, say, the Deathstar. That means we have a very minor difference (seeing the face of the bad guy vs not seeing the face of the bad guy) and a huge similarity (the Deathstar factors into the plot).

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

Seeing someone's face unmasked and not seeing their face at all is not a minor difference.

That makes Anakin's imprisonment in his mask and, later, his hastened death by deciding to remove it a "minor" thing.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

One bad guy being a cyborg and one bad guy not being a cyborg is very minor. At least going by thebplot of ANH. It never becomes important. Likewise, seeing Kylo’s face isn’t important.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

A human and a cyborg does not represent a minor difference.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

When is it ever important to the plot in ANH? If you took out Obi Wan’s line about him being more machine than man, there would be no way of knowing Vader was a cyborg.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

It is not important to the plot. It is important for the character and who they impose themselves on the film and the characters surrounding them in it and on the audience.

When we were kids, all my friends and I were convinced that Vader was a robot. So ESB and the ROTJ blew our minds in several different ways.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

How is being a cyborg important to Vader's character in ANH? We're not talking about the other movies at the moment.

Why is it important in TFA that Kylo shows his face?

Keep in mind, if I were to point out major differences between Vader and Maul or Vader and Dooku, bringing up Vader's cybernetics would be at the far end of the list. There are much more significant differences between the characters.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

A robot doesn't have a conscience to listen to or ignore. That's a very important distinction between a human and a robot.

Since it happened, it's important since it depicts Kylo as someone aspiring to Vader 's imposing presence but also trying to ingratiate himself by removing it. In other words he's caught in two minds.

Maul is a non-entity. He's not a character. He's a martial arts display. He's nothing more than one of Grevious's magna guards. Interesting looking. Only there to be killed.

There's allusion to Dooku being an interesting character. He looks and talks like Sir Christopher Lee. But it's just a brief allusion. There's zero ambiguity until we see the look of surprise on his face when Palpatine orders Anakin to execute him.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

You and your friends thinking Vader was a robot is not important to ANH since the movie stated he was human and was made a cyborg. Since you were very young when you saw the movie, you simply didn't catch that part.

I think you put more thought into Kylo showing his face than the writers did.

Whether or not you think Dooku or Maul were interesting is also irrelevant. They are not similar to Vader, either way. That's my point.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

Nobody stated that Vader was a man in ANH.

ANH is a kids movie, so kids perceptions of it are very important.

It just appears to be more thought than you are capable of and so can't conceive of the writers putting it in. It's not their job to explain the thought behind it, but to show.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

Obi-Wan said he was a pupil of his who betrayed and murdered Luke's father, then he said "He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil."

I love how you imply I'm stupid while admitting you weren't able to catch important parts of the movie while claiming your lack of attention to detail was somehow important to the plot. At any rate, is Force Awakens supposed to be a kid's movie too? Either there's some heavy symbolism going on in the Star Wars movies or full lines of dialogue need to be ignored because the audience won't be paying attention anyway. Which is it?

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

That line is in ROTJ. Not in ANH.

So you clearly don't need me to imply that you are stupid.

I think you're done here.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

Oops, guess I got the line wrong, but you can't really get too cocky since you just admitted you an your friends spent years thinking Vader was a robot and that your lack of attention was integral to the movie.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

I never said we spent years but since you've made that claim

Spent about one year convinced of it until it was revealed in ESB on its release that Vader might be Luke's father, then another three years being not being so convinced of it (but still suspicious) until ROTJ came out and explained it all. By which time I was 8 years old.

If it makes you feel better you can go ahead and snigger at 5-8 year old children making reasonable assumptions over thirty years ago.

If you had been paying attention to the content of my posts then this wouldn't have happened.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

"Spent about one year convinced of it until it was revealed in ESB that Vader might be Luke's father, then another three years being not being so convinced until ROTJ came out and explained it all. By which time I was 8 years old."

So then it took years for you to figure out he wasn't a robot. Even after he said he was Luke's father in ESB and Obi-Wan said he was a former pupil who betrayed and murdered Luke's dad, it wasn't until you were eight that you figured out something that was never really hinted at.

By the way, for being so old, you act like an overly emotional child. Typically, when someone starts throwing insults around on the internet as they lose an argument, I assume it's some ADHD-riddled 13 year old.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

Most kids I knew didn't believe it when Vader made that claim.

But when the line that Obi Wan delivered confirmed he was part man part machine (which you thought was in ANH) after Yoda confirmed his fatherhood, it made sense.

You are now using Obi Wan's line about Darth Vader murdering Luke's dad even though it's at odds with Vader's later claim which I am supposed to have believed and understood as the truth as six year old.

"Typically, when someone starts throwing insults around on the internet as they lose an argument, I assume it's some ADHD-riddled 13 year old."

I haven't thrown any insult . I haven't whined about non-existent accusations of stupidity. Or made basic errors about dialogue in my posts, or about the content of the posts themselves. Nor have I lost an argument.

So I guess you're actually talking about yourself.

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[–] AP (5260) 7 years ago

So what you're saying is "I know you are, but what am I". Mature. Good job at being passive aggressive too. I think we're done here, kiddo.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

No I'm just applying your criteria to the person who, demonstrably, has actually displayed those attributes. You.

I don't really care what you think I am, but those were the terms you brought up and used and they can only be applied to what you've said in the past hour.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] TexasJack (12515) 7 years ago

"more machine than man" was ROTJ.

"a pupil of mine, before he turned to evil. He betrayed and murdered your father" was ANH.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

That's right. But to a very young kid who just saw a towering monolith with superhuman strength and an electronic voice, the words "pupil" and "betray" don't really dissuade them from thinking that he's a robot. Plus there's no way of suspecting that Vader didn't always look that way.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

For the record YES Last Crusade ripped off Raiders, and I f-cking hate Last Crusade.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

The same case cannot be made against Raiders and Temple. There is a difference between an homage and a flat out rip off. Epic fail.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

They follow a formula, that's not the same as ripping it off. Here is how Temple of Doom would have to go down to rip off Raiders the same way TFA ripped off A New Hope:

- Indy goes to Africa to search for the Diamond, he goes through a temple of booby traps, finds the diamond but accidentally sets off a another booby trap which causes the entire temple to collapse

- He is betrayed on the way however does make it out with the diamond, however Mola Ram and the Thuggees are waiting for him outside the Temple. Even though Mola Ram takes the diamond Indy escapes with his life

- We then see him teaching a lesson when he is interrupted by Marcus Brody. He tells them that the Nazis are digging for the Sankara Stones in India and want him to go get it.

- Indy stops in the Middle East to meet up with Willie Scott who has a statue that is needed in order to find the location of the Sankara Stones. However the Nazis barge in, there is a fight but Indy and Willie escape with the statue.

- They then meet up with Short Round in India who tells them that the Nazis are close to discovering the Sankara Stones and that Mola Ram and the Thuggees are helping them. The Nazis then ambush them and Willie is kidnapped however Indy thinks he killed her.

- Indy and Short Round then infiltrate the Nazi dig site, it turns out the Nazis are digging in the wrong place and that Willie is still alive just a prisoner. Indy uses the statue to find the location of the Sankara Stones, it is location in the underground catacombs known as the Temple of Doom. At the bottom of the Temple of Doom the Sankara stones are located in a giant statue of Kali Ma but it is surrounded by lava and bugs.

- Indy goes into the Temple of Doom, gets the Sankara stones but Mola Ram and the Nazis are at the top, they take the Sankara Stones and then lock Indy and Willie in the Temple of Doom where they are sure to die. However Indy finds a back door and they escape.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

- Indy tries to hide on a boat the Nazis and Thuggees are using to take the stones back to Germany however he gets into a fight with a giant Thuggee and Indy is getting his ass kicked until the Thuggee gets pulled under a rock crusher.

- The Thuggees and Nazis then decide to use the mine carts to get the stones out and Indy catches up to them and a mine cart chase ensues. Indy eventually wins the stones and he and Willie get on a boat to go back to America.

- However the boat is ambushed by the Nazis and the Nazis and Mola Ram take Indy and Willie back to the Temple of Doom. Mola Ram then uses a ritual to rip out Indy and Willie's heart however he doesn't understand the power of the stones and the spirit of Shiva sets all of the Thuggees and Nazis on fire.

There you go Techtash, that is Temple of Doom ripping off Raiders the same way TFA ripped off ANH. Chris Stuckmann used that same logic and it doesn't hold up. Nice try dumbass.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

So you throw an insult at me simply because I disagree? Interesting although given your history not surprising. Anyway there are in fact some differences between TFA and a new hope. In TFA we know a lot about Kylo Ren and very little about Rey. In a New Hope we know a ton about Luke but not much about Vader. That is flipping the script a bit. Finn is an original character. We never have seen a storm trooper turn to against the army he was fighting with. Interestingly enough though you hate Finn as well. The main hero did not fight the villain in a new hope where as in TFA the hero does.

Last Crusade did not rip off Raiders anymore than Temple of Doom did. You simply dislike it therefore you want to lump it into the ripoff bin. Last Crusade had Indy's father who was not present in Raiders, his backstory as a youngster, Elsa was also different than all the love interests. She betrayed him and was a villain where as the others were not. Temple of Doom had a different setting and short round. Temple of Doom also undermines the story just a bit because Indy says in Raiders he does not believe in any superstitious mumbo jumbo. Interestingly enough Temple of Doom takes place before Raiders... Explain that one.

I honestly believe you had in your mind what you wanted to see. Since you did not get exactly what you wanted the movie is trash. You disliked Rogue One as well. May I ask what is the issue with that film? You're saying that Disney should call it quits why? TFA was the third highest grossing film of all time critics and the fans loved it. They should call it quits because you did not like it?

I myself have some gripes with the film but it is a bit silly to think your opinion holds that much weight.

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[–] Martoto (4458) 7 years ago

Well said.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

You are completely wrong. Star Wars movies opening with a title crawl is following a formula, Star Wars movies having a lightsaber duel is following a formula, Star Wars movies featuring new exotic planets is following a formula, Indiana Jones movies having Indy search for an unrelated artifact in the beginning is following a formula, Indiana Jones having red line map travel is following a formula, Indiana Jones getting captured is following a formula, the main villain being killed by not understanding the artifact is following a formula.

Poe giving super secret information to BB-8 right before he is captured is ripping off A New Hope because the exact same thing is happening to him that happened to Princess Leia. BB-8 meeting up with a character living on a desert planet who dreams of seeing the galaxy is ripping off ANH because the exact same thing happened. The rebel pilots having to destroy a planet size space based weapon by maneuvering down a trench is ripping off ANH because the exact same thing happened. You should watch this video he really does a great job explaining why the Force Awakens is so horrible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g9cJ5WKZeU

All of your "differences" between ANH and TFA are very minor tid bits. That is like me saying that Home Alone 2 is not the same as Home Alone because in Home Alone 2 Kevin made it to the plane and he didn't in the original. Or that Harry and Marv already knew who Kevin was in Home Alone 2 but not in the original. I'll concede that the idea of exploring a disillusioned storm trooper was a decent idea but even then the movie still f-cked it up.

Temple of Doom did not rip off Raiders, different things happened to Indy and the story structure was different. In Raiders Indy was assigned the adventure, in Temple it happened by accident. In Raiders we meet the villain in the first 10 minutes, in Temple it isn't until the second half.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

In Raiders the love interest has something to do with the story, in Temple she is just along for the ride. In Raiders Indy ends up with his "fortune and glory", in Temple he gives up his "fortune and glory" for the good of others. In Raiders the supernatural forces are not seen until the very end (and this is true for Last Crusade and Crystal Skull), in Temple it is established halfway through that we are watching the fantasy universe. In Raiders the adventure continues after we think it's over (with the Nazis steeling the arc from Katangas ship), in Temple that doesn't happen.

Sorry but you are wrong on this as is Chris Stuckmann (the youtuber you ripped off your argument from). Disney is NOT doing anything new or original with the saga, they are just remaking the original trilogy because that is what they think fans want and people will see it because of the fan service and nostalgia. I had issues with the prequels but at least they felt like Star Wars and at least they were their own thing, they didn't have to recycle the original trilogy plot point for plot point like The Force Awakens did.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

The love interest in Temple of Doom having nothing to do with the story does not help your case. Part of the reason she is considered the worst Indiana Jones girl is because of that very reason. Marion and Elsa one way or another have a part to play in the story. Willie is simply there to be a damsel in distress.

Kylo Ren being revealed as a human in the second half of the film is not minor. Him killing his own father is not minor. We learn that Kylo is conflicted and is trying to flush out the good in order to be committed to the dark side. Vader we did not know whether he was a man or a machine or what was underneath the mask in a new hope.

Interesting how you skipped over the flaw I listed with the Temple of Doom. Temple of Doom takes place before Raiders does. So why does Indy not believe in any of the super superstitious in Raiders after witnessing what he did in Temple of Doom? Did they forget about that part of the film when they were making Temple of Doom? You ignored my question about Rogue One as well. What is the issue with that movie? Elaborate.

I am not watching that video in part because it is an hour long. I am arguing with you not that guy's view online. Given your history I know you will blindly agree with anything that speaks negatively about TFA. I obviously struck a nerve since you resulted to insults. Usually when someone can't come against someone's views they result to petty childish insults. I never claimed you were wrong as misguided and silly as I think your views are I can not take those away from you. You will claim I am wrong because you seem like the type of person who has an entitled attitude.

I think this because it is a bit silly to think Disney is going to pack up ship and quit because one disgruntled person online did not like what they did. Your voice and the other people who do not like it do not make up for the majority who did. We are getting part 8 and 9 and I myself look forward to it. If you're so dissatisfied stop watching them.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

Except we aren't talking about strong female characters, we are talking about whether Temple ripped off Raiders and it doesn't and that is one of the reasons. In case you are too stupid to realize this part of the point of Willie's character is she starts out as a complete wimp who hates Indy but evolves into a stronger character and falls for Indy. She's not as good as Marion but FAR better than Elsa who was one of the most bland, cringe inducing characters I have ever seen.

Darth Vader was conflicted also, Darth Vader killed his mentor in the same way that Kylo Ren killed his father. Let's be honest Kylo Ren is just Darth Vader 2.0, he's pretty much the same character except Darth Vader made sense. If Kylo wants to be evil why the hell would he look up to Darth Vader who redeemed himself and destroyed the sith? Just more lazy writing. Um did you not watch A New Hope? It was clearly stated that Vader used to be a Jedi, there was never any indication that he was a full fledged machine. "The force is an energy field created by all LIVING things", Vader has the force, therefore Vader is NOT a machine idiot.

Indy not believing in magic in Raiders is simply a continuity error, it was a character error that slipped past Lucas and Spielberg, or they realized and figured no one would notice. That has nothing to do with the pathetic excuse of an argument you are trying to make. I hated Rogue One because it's dull, lifeless and flat out boring. The acting is atrocious, the action sequences aren't fun and I never had a reason to care about anything. In the prequels I knew how it would end up by I was so invested in the story I wanted to know how it happened. In Rogue One it didn't matter at all to me.

Of course you won't watch the video you know it debunks your case. Oh I know Disney isn't going away, they are going to milk this for all it's worth, I have accepted it. My point is if they wanted to salvage any dignity they would pack it up but money talks

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

How is Willie better than Elsa? Elsa actually plays a part in the overall story Willie does not. You dug your own grave with Willie. You by your own words admitted Willie is just along for the ride. Marion and Elsa both have points in the outcome of each film they are in. I do not even have to argue that point any further you basically did it for me.

In a new hope we did not know Vader was conflicted. It was only in Empire we find that out. We had no idea Vader was Luke's father until Empire Strikes Back. The only thing we knew about Vader was he had some sort of connection to Obi Wan that was it. It was not until the Empire Strikes Back that we found out a lot of Vader's back story. Kylo idolizing Vader makes us wonder why he does. Leaving a bit of a mystery can add to the audience's curiosity. We all loved Vader but we knew very little about him. This left room for them to expand in the sequel. Leading to one of the best twists in cinema for Empire Strikes back.

So you concede that Temple of Doom does in fact have a continuity error. That is one of the reasons I think the Last Crusade is better. To me it seemed more thought out than that one did. I say that and I actually like all 3 of the original Indy films. I simply like Raiders and Crusade the best. Crusade is actually my personal favorite in the series.

You're labeling. How is the action not fun and how is the acting atrocious? I myself found the prequels too reliant on cgi. I like that the new trilogy is not going overboard with the cgi.

The video I am rather sure does not debunk my case. I could show you videos which think the force awakens is great and say it debunks your case but I am not doing that. I do not need to reference another person's point to disagree with you. You have your mind made up before you walk into a film. It is the entitled attitude I talked about. Oh this movie is not exactly what I wanted therefore it is total trash.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

Capshaw at least put some passion into her performance, Alison Doody is quite possibly the WORST actress I have ever seen. Sure Willie was along for the ride --> SHE DIDN'T ASK TO GO ON THE ADVENTURE, but once she was on it she started to evolve. There you are done with that point, that was never what this discussion was about, you are just deflecting because you have no real argument. Stop embarrassing yourself.

You can add all the mystery you want but it still doesn't make any goddamn sense, Vader destroyed the sith, if Kylo truly looked up to Vader he would never be evil, Vader is the ultimate redemption story, sounds like Kylo and the writes don't understand that. Whether Kylo is conflicted or not that doesn't make him a good character, honestly when he started slashing the control panels with his lightsaber I started laughing at what a joke he was and his stupid little temper tantrum. He isn't threatening, he isn't interesting he's just an emo brat bitch.

Sure Temple has a continuity error, but Temple of Doom is a good movie, Last Crusade isn't, that is why I am willing to forgive some of the minor errors in Temple but they stand out to me more in Last Crusade because Last Crusade is one big pile of sh!t. Hell Last Crusade's ending is impossible, Sallah's gun disappears meaning the Nazis never should have dropped their guns and they all should have killed them. Evil should have triumphed in Last Crusade but for the sake of the plot convenience it didn't. Last Crusade is a god awful piece of campy garbage but have fun with your crapfest of Force Awakens, Rogue One and Last Crusade.

It's just my opinion, I didn't like the story, I thought the characters were dull and lifeless and it was a complete borefest. Yes you are correct the prequels overrelied on CGI and that is my main complaint, however they had a good story and so I was invested.

Of course you won't watch the video because you're afraid of being embarrassed, how could you possibly know it doesn't debunk you if you won't watch it

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

Well if you like sh!t acting that's your business, you are right it is a subjective claim. WHAT??? No you didn't I kicked your ass. You couldn't defend your claim that Temple ripped off Raiders so you deflected to who was a better love interest. You couldn't stand on your own two feet so you went running for cover. You haven't proven the Elsa is better than Willie by your own admission ITS SUBJECTIVE!!! Elsa could have been a good character, I don't have too much of a problem with the way she was written, my problem is Alison Doody's flat out ATROCIOUS acting, it grated on my nerves so much I have to hit the mute button every time she opens that hole in her face. That and the dialogue she had to recite was so poorly written ("giddy as a schoolboy", "let's go to the library, yah!!!", shut the hell up)

Anakin was not as bad as Kylo Ren and I fully understood where Anakin was coming from. He lost his mother at a very young age and then watched her die and he then became terrified he would lose Padme in the same way. His fear got so obsessive that he turned to the dark side and ended up fulfilling his visions by his own actions. That is a far more compelling story than some whiny little bitch who doesn't even understand the person he idolizes.

Good for you, you like Last Crusade, again I am happy for you. You are able to take a look at a piece of dog sh!t and see some good in it. That's impressive not many can do that.

No way you watched that video, it's an hour and you responded well before you had time to watch it you f-cking liar. I know the debate is over, I beat your ass again but I'm happy to hear that you are packing it in for the night. Good day sir, until we meet again.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

And for the record Kylo Ren is just so emo whiny little bitch who resorts to temper tantrums and starts waving his lightsaber everywhere when he gets angry. Vader kept his composure when he was angry when he force choked people, that is what made him so intimidating. Kylo Ren is a complete joke although I do hope he kicks Rey the Mary Sue's ass in Episode VIII and given Disney's history of ripping off the original trilogy I am actually somewhat hopefull.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

How could you ever connect the dots that Vader is a machine? That makes no sense at all. Obi Wan said the force was created by all living things like 25 minutes in, that means there was maybe one scene where you could possibly think Vader was a robot and I really doubt the audience was making that connection doofus.

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

A few things Techtash:

1) I never said Temple was perfect, I think Raiders is better, all I said was that it was miles better than that piece of sh!t Last Crusade

2) The argument was never about whether Temple was better than Last Crusade, it was about whether Temple ripped off Raiders, drop the Willie argument, not only did I beat you but it's irrelevant to the topic

3) Why do you keep doing this to yourself? I kicked your little bitch ass on IMDB and now I'm doing it again on moviechat. The forum can change all it wants but some things will always remain.

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[–] Tectash (34) 7 years ago

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

Hippo: 1,293,504,002,558
Techtash: 0

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[–] movielife1974 (3) 7 years ago

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[–] Renovatio (2990) 7 years ago

"... the entire film banks on call backs, fan service and nostalgia..."

This is the new formula and it works... Add to it a bit of exposition and filling in the "world building" gaps and you have the perfect assembled product for generations of viewers to get their Star Wars fix... It also means you can just repeat the process again once you're done with the series...

This is what "fans" want... This is what fan culture inevitably leads to as you cannot depart from the scripture of the original...

It's ok... Let them have it, there are other movies with original stories or reinterpretations of existing ones, but they aren't going to be Star Wars movies... Let go... This is what Star Wars is now and all it ever will be, and it's ok ;)

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 7 years ago

That may work for now but I have a feeling people are going to get sick of it and it'll be in disneys best interests to just call it quits

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