All the angry right wingers here I see
just looking at the thread list
i'm not a right winger or even all that angry, but i am annoyed by this sort of pandering, identity obsessed trash.
ordinarily i'd be very interested in anything coen related, but as soon as i saw what this was, i knew i wanted nothing to do with it.
What do you mean?
I know nothing of this movie, what is the pandering being done?
it's another lesbian movie, where no doubt all the women will be brave, noble & superior and all the men will either be inept dolts or loathsome rapists or something to that effect.
most people can't seem to get enough of things like that. i'm really sick of it, myself.
Is that going to happen, though?
The protagonists of Coen movies are very rarely perfect, superior and noble.
The only factual thing you've mentioned, it seems, is that they are lesbians, which could be a minor trivia about the characters...
fair enough. generally i am willing to give either of the coens all the chances in the world.
but the fact that he's made a movie with that kind of character as the lead is enough for me to refuse to see it & generally condemn it. with alacrity.
maybe i'll catch it on a streamer years from now & think i was silly to dismiss it. could happen. i change my mind all the time.
but this is one of the areas where i feel like i need to take a personal stand & refuse to participate in this sort of thing. & i'd like to think more people are doing the same. maybe that's fanciful of me & i'm on my own, but i think the tide has gone out a bit on this identitarianism, & i hope consumers reject stuff like this.
So you only want to watch a movie with a straight male lead?
I mean there are still a ton of movies out there that you can watch without lesbians, so why is it that when there is a movie about them it's identitarianism? (isn't identitarinism a right wing ideology?)
there's nothing essentially rw in identifying & criticizing identity politics. some of the most prominent people who attack it are people like john mcwhorter & coleman hughes & sam harris, who in most of their views are standard issue liberals, even leftists.
& funnily enough, they get slammed to the identity obsessives who see any departure from their orthodoxy as right wing!
if this movie was just viewed in isolation, then there might be nothing remarkable about having lesbians as leads. but it's not of course. it's part of the dreary identity counting culture with its miserable focus on making sure every box is checked and all the skin tones & sex preferences are accounted for. i think this obsession is a cancer. it's bad for education, it makes for toxic work places and i think it makes bad art. it creates escalating resentment & causes people to act with a kind of performative delicacy, creating a pageant of victimhood.
like i said, i haven't seen it, so i have to have some modesty and not declare full out war on this one movie. though by most accounts it's pretty poor, a misfire, so i'm not missing much in skipping it probably.
I think identity politics and identitarianism are different things, or at least have come to mean different things. When I mentioned right wing, it wasn't to make this a political thing other than the actual word identatarinism. Sexual orientation really shouldn't be political. At all.
https://www.populismstudies.org/Vocabulary/identitarians/
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/10/12/american-racists-work-spread-%E2%80%98identitarian%E2%80%99-ideology
So, even if we just take this as identity politics, neither Ethan Coen , nor Tricia Cooke are lesbians, so it's not like they are pushing their own agenda here. Has Ethan Coen actually pushed any sort of lesbian agenda? Could this movie be the same if the lead broke up with her boyfriend? If so, what does it matter if she is a lesbian or not. Lesbians do actually exist in this world, so why shouldn't they be in a movie or two? Perhaps the reason why more movies are featuring movies with LGBTQ+ people is that it's no longer really taboo, nor is it anything special. It's just representative of the world we live in.
fair point on identitarianism vs id politics. i probably conflated those terms.
as for what's in your 2nd paragraph...everything should be looked at as an individual case. i want people to be judged as individuals, & i should keep the same standard. but it sure seems to me that lesbian/queer female stories have become prominent in a way that seems very much like the way all manner of identities have become interjected into movies & tv & broad culture, & i think that stinks & i don't want to support it & very much want it to die die die
i find it dreary & tiresome & pandering & it does the opposite of what i think a proper story should do. instead of feeling natural & organic, instead of creating verisimilitude, it makes you all too aware that you are watching someone feed you vegetables. someone is trying to broadcast that they are a good person & you will be a good person if you adopt their diversity-drenched media as well.
How many lesbian led movies are out there?
share"..it's part of the dreary identity counting culture .."
The only counting I hear and see is people who are chalking up every movie like this as another attack in their imaginary culture war.
i think the obsession with race & sex & all the other stuff is all too real & apparent. it's wound its way into all areas of our lives, in the way civil rights legislation has been repurposed to impose quotas in gov't bureaucracy & in orgs that receive gov't funding, in the way schools have become identity obsessed.
none of those things are fantastical or made up.
You just keep saying "obsessed" because it makes anything conspicuous to you sound illegitimate or undue.
Legislation had to be repurposed because, left to their own devices, historically white dominated institutions benefit whites disproportionately. Either unconsciously or by design. Therefore, to offset this, to make representation more equitable, action needed to be taken.
If you are bothered that in areas of entertainment the idea of a non-white or non hetero person in the types of roles traditionally dominated by white/straight movie stars is not considered exotic enough to remain a rarity, without any legislation, then it proves that the legislation is working, and that it was required.
you're welcome to defend it. i'm different. that's allowed.
i think the fact that we're seeing minorities like jews & asians protest the quota systems that have been set up to benefit other minorities says a fair bit about how divisive & counterproductive those actions are.
how effective have they been? they've been very effective in leading people to weaponize their identities & adopt a kind of performative delicacy in their daily lives.
they've actually seemingly created a little mini-industry of white people trying to claim various exotic ethnicities so they can grab a bit of that quota benefit for themselve.
that seems like backwards motion to me. & terribly patronizing in the belief that certain people can only thrive if we have systems set up to put a thumb on the scale for them.
& needless to say, when we do see people from the quota-benefiting groups get access to elite institutions, their presence will be viewed with skepticism, because there's every chance they're where they are not because of what they've accomplished but instead because they have the right chromosomes & melanin content & so on.
so my preference is that we do what mlk & lots of other smart & wise people have wanted: actually judge people by their abilities & actions & so on.
this need to promote some, listen to some, privilege some while ignoring others based on identity is a cancer on our lives imo.
happy movie-chatting to you anyway.
You prefer it when minorities had to work ten times as hard as whites to maybe get a chance. Got it.
sharethat's all you have to say?
speaks volumes.
I'd have more to say if, like you, I just make up a load of anecdotal and nonsensical bullshit about, for example, how Jews and Asians are unhappy with the imaginary quotas (presumably of all other minorities except Jews and Asians, which makes no sense) that you say every part of society is trying to fulfill,.
sharei'm happy to bring facts.
like how racial quotas at elite institutions actually help caribbean & african immigrants & foreign students far more than they do anything for native born blacks.
& how those quotas impact asians & jews far more than they hurt whites, which is why 'students for fair admissions' brought & won the lawsuit against harvard.
or how, after 50+ years of massive government interventions in education & regulation of hiring & in government transfers, native born blacks remain far behind in academic achievement. for eg, in the 11 states that pay for all students to take the sat, the b/w gap is .98 standard deviations, meaning the avg white has a higher score than roughly 82% of blacks. in washington dc the gap is 2sd, meaning the avg white has a higher score than 97.5% of the black students there.
or how the decline in black poverty from 1940 to 1960 was 47%, & after the use of civil rights laws to impose quotas & the expansion of government transfers the decline slowed & many blacks have remained stuck in the welfare trap.
i can give you the fact that asian women, who are part of a minority group, now out earn white men in america. asian people are a minority who no doubt face discrimination - for eg, job application studies show asian names are less likely to receive responses, yet they significantly out-earn native born white americans.
or i can show you the stats showing that black professionals are admitted into their education programs with much lower standards, lower tests on lsats & msats. & how they have much higher rates of failure in those programs, & how those that practice in their fields have much higher rates of facing disciplinary action from their governing bodies.
i can show you all of that if you want.
Yeah so all that means that movies with lesbians in them should be fewer and further between. Got it.
shareBAD LESBIANS....BAD....YOU RUINED ANOTHER MOVIE BY EXISTING.
shareget lost
shareTHAT WON'T BE HAPPENING ANYTIME SOON...SO...SINCE I AM HERE FOR A WHILE...WHY DON;T YOU SHOW ME ON THE TICKLE ME ELMO WHERE THE BAD LESBIANS HURT YOU.😉
shareit's annoying that this site doesn't have a proper block function.
shareYOU WOULD REALLY BLOCK A GUY JUST FOR RESPECTING OTHER PEOPLE?
sharejust you.
you're a real creep. stay away from me. i don't want to see your trash in response to me again.
HOW AM I A CREEP?...I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY CREEPER THINGS I MAY HAVE SAID...I STAND BEHIND MY OPINIONS...AS I AM SURE YOU DO AS WELL...DON'T UNDERSTAND THE OVER TE TOP THEATRICS WHEN SPEAKING TO ME THOUGH...LET'S BE PALS...WHAT ARE YOU TOP FIVE FAVORITE MOVIES?
shareI'm not a particular conniseur of lesbian crime movies, though I did enjoy Bound (1996) https://moviechat.org/tt0115736/Bound
Any other suggestions?
low post count , you must be new .
You'll soon see theres an army of straight white angry males here who are outraged everytime they see a character not straight white or male - you'll fit right in !
You’ve done your work to stir it up. You troll for an emotional reaction using race and politics and then complain when you get what you’re craving.
shareits more of a RE-action. I just got trolled and stirred up when I see all these threads from the usual assholes saying ... well , all the usual misogynistic sexist racist bullshit , disguised and legitimised by calling it "calling out woke"