MovieChat Forums > Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) Discussion > Indy 5 if directed by Spielberg?

Indy 5 if directed by Spielberg?

posted 8 months ago by bozo_500 (12307)
24 replies | jump to latest

Ive been reading the making of/development of the movie on wiki, roughly it goes Spielberg was on board until 2020 and Crystal Skull writer David Koepp had written the script (also there was Johnathan Kasden who wrote Solo) but its not clear if the story centred around the Dial at this point. Koepp eventually left saying they all (Spielberg, Ford, Disney) couldnt agree on a script. Then Spielberg stepped away shortly after. Mangold was hesitant to direct as felt not enough time to do it for the now summer 2021 release date (originally slated for summer 2019), but the pandemic shut down gave him time to 'aggressively rewrite the script' with his Ford v Ferrari writer over 6-8months and 'Mangold conceived the film's time-travel element and its use of the Antikythera mechanism as the MacGuffin' and that 'according to Mangold, the earlier draft by Koepp featured a MacGuffin that was "just another relic with power, similar to the relics we had seen," with no emotional connection to Jones.'

Therefore that leads to thinking Spielberg's Indy 5 would have been radically different to the Indy 5 we got and most likely had a different McGuffin..

But say it still had the Dial (it might well have), then how different would it have been to the eventual Mangold movie?

-Obviously it would've 'felt' more like an Indiana Jones movie and had that unique 'Spielberg look/feel' (but it has to be said MG did a decent job directing 'as Spielberg' which is basically what he was hired to do)

-Ford possibly less of a curmudgeon, more 'Indiana Jones' (I get the impression Ford wanted to play him more like the 'grumpy old man' persona he has in real life and Mangold just let him do it however he wanted , maybe Spielberg would've guided him more to being the Indy of before..)

-The Nazis and Vollers involvement in the moon landing stuff/Operation Paperclip would've figured more? (Nazi moon base type stuff) Perhaps even Die Glocke?? (the Nazi Bell) maybe it could've been Vollers previous attempts at a way of timetravel to alter WW2s outcome (there were frequent rumours Die Glocke would be the mcguffin)

-perhaps the ending would not have gone 'full timetravel' , thered have been an 'almost' like the previous movies finales, but not Indy and the Nazis actually in 212 BC interacting with Archimedes (which wouldve been like at the end of Crystal Skull, Indy & Co going through the portal on the spaceship as it takes off lol)..

-If there had been timetravel perhaps it would've been going back to 1939 or the 1944 beginning of the movie? (with old Indy assisting deepfake young Indy), or even Raiders of The Lost Ark or Last Crusade (a'la the BTTF2/Avengers Endgame/Flash thing of going back to a previous movie)

-or heres a thought, what if the Spielberg/Koepp version of Indy 5 had the Spear of Destiny as the mcguffin (and Mangold simply relegated it to being a fake in the opening..) His comments about Koepps McGuffin being "just another relic with power, similar to the relics we had seen," might suggest that..

-and of course had Spielberg directed it would've been more an event for audiences (and possibly out earlier in like 2019 still riding that Force Awakens/Lucasfilm/Ford wave.. or 2022 with Jurassic World/Top Gun which could've helped as another legacy sequel to see) therfore more box office (at least made it to 500m anyway)

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 8 months ago

some intersting concept art from the Spielberg/Koepp non Dial of Destiny Indy 5 set in China (opening Young Indy sequence) and Buenos Aires (the concept art guy looks to be updating it near daily)
https://www.instagram.com/brockbankadam/
https://www.instagram.com/p/CvwXi9CK0wh/ (Raiders sub?)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CvznN-vKBzG/ (Indy captured by Nazis?)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CwPl-UMKFSN/ (Buenos Aires. is that Felicity Jones from Rogue One?)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cwe8upJqeRv/ (Young Indy opening in China)
from comments -

brockbankadam Spielberg was going to direct but for various reasons passed the baton to James Mangold and there was a complete re-write

timduttonart Enjoyed working on this set with you, big shame about that big script change to take the story away from China... when was it... Feb 2020...

@timduttonart it was a shame , I think it would have been a spectacular set. I don’t think anything remains from the version we worked together on

@brockbankadam yep, the only set that survived the rewrite was the Nazi plunder train, with that sequence becoming the opening instead of this one with young Indy. Real shame Spielberg left the project, especially since it was apparently down to scheduling and that all changed thanks to covid anyway. Alas!

https://twitter.com/Barnett_College/status/1697710134976266453
Some concept designs recently shared by Film Concept and Comic Artist Adam Brockbank based on production designer Adam Stockhausen's work. Apparently a story we will never see set Indy5 in China and Buenos Aires.

He did confirm on his Instagram this was Steven and David Keopp's version of Indiana Jones 5 before scheduling and the pandemic among studio and creator differences led this version to get scrapped and James Mangold stepping in to start from scratch.

My hunch is that had the pandemic not happened Spielberg wouldn’t have written Fabelmans (at least not yet) and Indy 5 would have remained his next film. Can’t say it wasn’t a good trade off. :)

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 8 months ago

another one posted https://www.instagram.com/p/CxDKcr_qk-b/ (Indy finds a tiny Budda?)

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16270) 8 months ago

Felicity Jones would had been an improvement over PWB.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 8 months ago

Yeah it looks like she might have been Indys goddaughter in Spielbergs version .. She's 2y older than PWB (and hot)

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16270) 8 months ago

PWB is not bad looking but yeah FJ is prettier. Plus I thought she was miscast as roguish and ravishing treasure hunter. When I heard the casting, I figured she’d been one of his students, and something more quirky and offbeat in personality.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 8 months ago

Another one https://www.instagram.com/p/CxKpCUgqZ0q/ (Indy fires submarine gun with Jyn Erso/Felicity Jones?)

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 7 months ago

Look to be last one https://www.instagram.com/p/CxP5AIgqVvN/ (exploding sub)

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 2 days ago

Unless its Ana De Armes? (another Bond actor to cross over into Indy?)

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 7 months ago

Bit of info from this tweet regarding Spielbergs Indy 5

https://twitter.com/multiplexhero/status/1699813628059304375
Apparently there was a Nazi plunder train involved in the main plot of the movie and not a flashback, which is why David Koepp is still credited for the script in the final film

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16270) 6 months ago

So it almost sounds like IJ and company were just tracking down Nazi loot a la 'The Monuments Men' or something.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 6 months ago

Sounds likely, with a supernatural artefact at the centre of it (spear of destiny?)

Also there's the art with young Indy (and later adult Indy) in the tomb/buddha temple (China,), Buenos Aires, Nazi submarine (with Felicity Jones as the goddaughter?) so maybe a Nazi loot on board a lost train/submarine, and amongst it is something that ties in with the Chinese tomb/young Indy?

[–] HarlemEagle42 (16270) 6 months ago

This almost sounds like the Indiana Jones/Lara Croft crossover that we never got. Spear of Destiny honestly would had been a cool MacGuffin;I think one of the old IJ comics used it.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 5 months ago

Indy and Short Round concept art
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAgD1ETWIAA0j97?format=jpg&name=large
https://twitter.com/Barnett_College/status/1731638512934347019

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 2 days ago

btw that was from another artist, just a fun personal piece not part of the 'Spielberg Indy 5' concept art https://www.instagram.com/p/CzEjf0mqz4b/

There is this interesting comment tho regarding a potential Short Round cameo in DoD

do remember hearing last year or so that they had filmed a scene with short round in it where indi went to him for information and to catch up but was supposedly cut due to certain higher up decisions. If it was filmed it will probably sit in the Disney vaults along with the alternate endings that were leaked about too.

[–] ebhaynz (3545) 8 months ago

Spielberg dropping out as director was a very ominus sign. I really think Skull killed the franchise more than anything. Then they waited over a decade before greenlighting Indy 5.

Bad decision after bad decision completely vanquished the once extremely loyal fan base.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 8 months ago

i doubt he was that keen on directing Indy 5 in the first place (he wasnt too keen on doing Indy 4) but figured 'why not i'll do it as a favour to Harrison (who really wanted to do another) and it'll be a break from my serious stuff' of course once the pandemic reared its head he mustve had second thoughts and just wanted to do Fablemans

[–] ebhaynz (3545) 8 months ago

Yep you hit on a great point..and solved why Indy 5 was so horrible..Spielberg didn't want to make anymore Indy movies after 1989, period.

[–] TandyMan (10412) 8 months ago

He's been pretty open in interviews about Fablemans. A movie he always wanted to make and getting older and basically now or never, time is short. I think he would have course corrected Indy 4 with the last one. But I really don't think they were letting him make the movie he wanted to make. I think that's why he ultimately walked. He didn't own it anymore, he didn't have his way about things. And that dude is way too successful and prestigious to put up with that nonsense.

[–] TheArgentinian (6477) 8 months ago

He would have not made the film less generic. The franchise's dead.

[–] ADBruno1985 (3311) 8 months ago

I don't really have much to add, but I think this is a well thought-out post, the kind of which we don't see here often, so thank you.

Also I think this movie is destined to go down as one that people will always wonder about. Like if George Lucas had done his Sequel Trilogy. Or if Joel Schumacher had gotten to do another Batman movie.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 8 months ago

Thanks, one thing tho, I wrote it before the recent Instagram posts of the concept artist showing Spielberg/Koepp's Indy 5 which doesn't seem to be anything to do with the Dial or have much in the way of similarity to what we eventually got , but yeah its looking like another 'What If' to add to all the other ones like Lucas' Sequel Trilogy and Schumakers Batman 5 as you say , also Burtons Batman 3, Wooden Planet Alien3, Blomkamps Aliens sequel, Ridley Scotts I Am Legend, Verhoeven's Crusade, Roberto Orci's Star Trek 3 etc (and obviously previous Indys although maybe not as much an alternate film as this )

[–] jacotodd47 (1046) 6 months ago

I don't know. Things I liked a lot are now seeming outdated to me. Spielberg is a good example. One hasn't seen Indy 5, but I did see Spielberg's most recent directorial effort - "The Fabelman's". Wow - it struck me as corny, boring, disinteresting, and of course not to mention - outdated. One thought maybe time was up for Steven Spielberg. So, could he have done better with Indy 5? Well, here is another problem, one did see the Indy 5 trailer. It seemed absurd. Harrison Ford looking ridiculous. And the entire Indiana Jones concept - seemed outdated to me. I don't know if anyone could have done better with it. It could just be me as I am getting up there in age. To the young people, Indiana Jones films, the first 3 anyway, are terrific. And Steven Spielberg is a great director. You just have to go back a bit to find his best work. I'll get this in quickly, The Beatles (whats left of them anyway) released a new single called "Now and Then". I took a listen, it sounded so outdated to me. But again, to the young people, The Beatles were great - go back to what they did in the 1960s. That stuff, even now, still sounds terrific.

[–] bozo_500 (12307) 4 months ago

This game looks along the lines of what Spielbergs Indy 5 might've been?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hujLocUYl8

[–] PrimeMinisterX (8327) 2 days ago

Nice post. I appreciate the effort.

I was really hoping that Indy V was going to be a great grand finale for the series. I didn't hate the movie like many did--I at least thought it was an improvement over Skull--but it certainly did not match the original trilogy in terms of quality.

In truth, Ford was probably just too old to really "be" Indiana Jones any more, regardless of the script. There was always going to be a kind of sadness to whatever was made, as we would be forced to face the aging of the actor, the character and ourselves. But with the right script and director it could've been a fitting swan song.

Was Spielberg the right director? Indy 4 would suggest otherwise, though if his heart was really in it, maybe he could've made something great. Was Mangold the right director? I didn't like his excessive use of CGI and the final product was not great, so I would have to conclude that no, he was not the right director.

Speaking specifically to Indy in China and Argentina, while I understand that Indy is allowed to go on adventures all around the world, to me the setting doesn't FEEL right, much how China didn't feel right in the third Mummy movie. I guess, to me, it just seems like Indy should be adventuring around in Europe and the Middle East and leave the rest of the world to someone else.