MovieChat Forums > Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023) Discussion > Should they have gone back to 1939?

Should they have gone back to 1939?

posted 9 months ago by bozo_500 (12244)
35 replies | jump to latest

From imdb trivia

The original ending had the time-travelers go back to 1939 with Indiana Jones (Harrison Ford) put into the difficult position of trying to save Adolf Hitler from Jurgen Voller (Mads Mikelsen) killing him

From wiki

Mangold considered Nazi Germany for the film's time-traveling final act, with Jones attempting to stop Voller's plan. However, as this idea was developed further, Mangold considered it too predictable. He also found that it lacked emotional resonance for Jones and played out like a spy film, prompting him to choose the siege of Syracuse instead.

Full interview with Mangold:
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/indiana-jones-5-ending-explained

I guess it'd have been too close to the opening WW2 stuff and the ending up in BC ending was pretty insane/shocking/eerie and tied in with the previous endings of the overconfident villains being undone by the sheer power of the mcguffin (and going that far back has not really been done in a movie before*), but it would've been fun seeing Indy attempting to save his old book signing chum Adolf Hitler from assassination!

*There was a famous Twilight Zone episode where a passenger plane flew through a time fissure into the past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Odyssey_of_Flight_33

[–] bozo_500 (12244) 9 months ago

and had they gone to 1939 maybe theyd need to rework the movie so there wasnt the 1944 opening (therefore building anticipation to see WW2 at the end) therefore some other action sequence would need to be the opening.. maybe pre war Raiders/Crusade era 1937 and still have Voller and the Nazis chasing Indy & over the Dial

[–] xergan (859) 9 months ago

It would have been likely going back to the intro scene, just to find out, that all the lucky stuff was somehow done by old Indy and in the end they identify they couldn't change history. Also when they travelled in time, they haven't changed anything. The dragon and the watch were already forshadowing the ending.

[–] bozo_500 (12244) 9 months ago

Yeh that would make sense going back to the start BTTF2 style. I'm sure all these scenarios were considered by Mangold, before deciding to go BC

[–] MoviesStillSuck (256) 4 months ago

I’m sure they weren’t, and that he just banged out a crappy LucasFilm flick to collect a massive paycheck.

[–] bounce (62) 2 months ago

Like all movie franchises then?

gotcha.

[–] MoviesStillSuck (256) 2 months ago

Gotcha gotcha butterscotcha.

[–] bozo_500 (12244) 9 months ago

Indeed this was the intention

Initially, the screenwriting team thought about ending the movie by returning to the film’s extended prologue in 1944, when a younger Indy and the film’s villain, Nazi scientist Jürgen Voller (Mads Mikkelsen), first encounter the Antikythera on a Nazi loot train. And indeed, the film’s second act does end with Voller obtaining the device, kidnapping Indy, and flying off in a WWII-era Nazi gunship to travel back in time so Voller can win the war for Germany.

Except, Mangold says, he realized he didn’t want do to that.

“I couldn’t find a way to wrap my head around going back to the past and stopping Mads from doing his nefarious deeds to continue the Third Reich,” Mangold told Variety in early June. “It lacked wonder and was going to turn into kind of a cat and mouse thing. I felt like we’d be better off if that’s what people are anticipating, but that we really pull the tablecloth out from under the dishes at the last minute.”

At the same time, Mangold knew that if you’re going to have a device that can help its user manipulate time, “You’re going to have to see the power.” So rather than go back to WWII, Mangold and the Butterworths looked to Archimedes for their ending, and sent Indy and Voller — as well as Indy’s compatriots Helena (Phoebe Waller-Bridge) and Teddy (Ethann Isidore) — back to the Roman siege of Archimedes’ home of Syracuse on the island of Sicily in roughly 213 BCE.

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/indiana-jones-5-ending-shia-labeouf-mutt-williams-james-mangold-1235659773/

[–] xergan (859) 9 months ago

The current ending is also more in line with the typical trope for the bad guy dying because of a stupid mistake after winning over Indiana Jones.
In Indy 1, Satipo died after obtaining the Idol from Indy, just because he thought all traps are passed, Belloq was melted by the Ark of the Covenant, Mola Ram lost his grip because he wanted to keep the stones, Donovan aged to death, Spalko died because aliens rejected her. So sending Voller into the wrong past seems to me like the correct decision.

[–] stevewyzard (1252) 9 months ago

Thanks for posting this: as someone who enjoyed the movie, this provides some good information!

[–] bozo_500 (12244) 9 months ago

alternatively they could ended up in 1936 - during Raiders with Voller now trying to capture the Ark, and Indy trying to avoid running into his younger self BTTF2/Endgame style!

[–] Batfleck (1538) 9 months ago

i feel indiana Jones is best when he is going against nazis but i have not seen this film yet!

[–] Karl Aksel (1451) 9 months ago

I think Voller should have had a better plan than to kill Hitler in '39. Doing so would have completely demoralised the entire military from top to bottom, meaning WWII would have ended before it had begun. And in any case, for Indy to go back in time for the purpose of saving Hitler isn't exactly kosher.

Voller's plan should instead have been to go back in time in order to provide Hitler with new technology - especially nukes. That would have made Voller's plan actually scary. Who knows, maybe Voller wasn't interested in genocide. Germany winning a war isn't in an of itself sinister - Germany winning a war whilst run by Hitler is what's scary.

[–] Schuss (4) 8 months ago

I thought that as well. Maybe introduce the V2 rocket earlier in the war.

[–] FilmBuff (6695) 9 months ago

Personally, the Siege of Syracuse was the best possible destination from my point of view. Not only did it tie into earlier aspects of the film, but it's my personal favorite historical battle. No one believes me when I tell them that my Sicilian ancestors defended themselves with a death ray in 212 B.C. Archimedes was a bad ass.

One of my favorite silent films is Cabiria, which includes a great sequence depicting the Siege, but it was nice to see a modern film's depiction of the battle.

As you pointed out, it was also nice to see the trend of the villain being defeated in large part by his completion of his quest. That's something one comes to expect from an Indiana Jones film.

[–] bozo_500 (12244) 8 months ago

just looking at some of these that carried similar plot of WW2 time travel/alternate history stuff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_Axis_victory_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_science_fiction,_fantasy,_and_horror_films

from the obvious (Man in A High Castle) to the more obscure (Philadelphia Experiment II - 1993)

obviously Dial of Destiny never fully got into the past to deal with it but for a while it looked like it might end up the past half hour with Indy in WW2 again

[–] mikethemartian (6088) 8 months ago

That is one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes.