MovieChat Forums > The Flash (2023) Discussion > Barry technically should’ve recognized B...

Barry technically should’ve recognized Bruce at the end, why didn’t he?

posted 10 months ago by LanceDance (1088)
23 replies | jump to latest

Say what you will about the Schumacher films, they still take place in the same continuity as the Burton films. Michael Gough, who played Alfred in all four movies, didn’t say anything about Bruce’s appearance changing, and neither did Chris O'Donnell’s Robin. But are we now treating all actor changes as a different universe?

If so, does Batman Forever exist separately from the other films because of Val Kilmer? Do Iron Man 1 and Incredible Hulk exist separately from the rest of the MCU because Rhodes and Banner were played by different actors? One of Thor’s god friends changed actors, does that make it a different universe? Tony Stark’s dad was played by 3 different actors, are they all from different universes? Hell, Barry’s dad was played by two different actors between Justice League and The Flash, were those all separate universes pre-Flashpoint? And don’t even get me started on the X-Men movies and how all the young prequel X-Men cast were played by different actors between Origins and the First Class movies (among other continuity problems).

I’m aware there was a Batman 89 comic that continues after Returns, but with Clooney back, that comic is just fanfiction now… or is it?

As poetic as it is that Ezra’s Barry is now stuck with the worst live-action Batman, they should’ve just brought back an actor from an entirely different continuity, like Christian Bale, Robert Pattinson, or introduce James Gunn’s Batman, that would’ve made more sense and probably boosted ticket sales a little bit.

[–] ReelReviews14 (1033) 10 months ago

Excellent point, the "cameo" from "another universe" at the end doesn't even make sense, since cLooney was playing the same Batman that Michael Keaton did. Sure, the "tone" vastly changed when Schumacher was doing it compared to Burton, but you could say the same for the Snyderverse... compare the "tone" of Shazam to Man of Steel. Yet those films are supposedly set in the "same" universe.

If anything, the "other universe Batman" at the end should have been a Christian Bale cameo. But he probably (and wisely) said no.

[–] themightyperm (105) 10 months ago

Barry will never be in the right universe. He probably wasn't in the right universe when he went back and talked to Afleck Bruce the first time.

[–] FilmBuff (6698) 10 months ago

You're over-thinking it. George Clooney is a Bruce Wayne who looks like George Clooney. That's all. There's no reason to assume he's the same Bruce Wayne from the Batman film Clooney starred in. In fact, as you pointed out, since Barry did not recognize him, that suggests that he's a Batman from yet another timeline.

[–] ReelReviews14 (1033) 10 months ago

>>> George Clooney is a Bruce Wayne who looks like George Clooney. That's all. There's no reason to assume he's the same Bruce Wayne from the Batman film Clooney starred in. <<<

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. So when Henry Cavill showed up at the end of Black Adam, there was no reason to assume he was playing the same Superman from Man of Steel. It could have been a Superman from ANOTHER universe that by sheer coincidence looks, sounds, and acts exactly like the one from Man of Steel.

Just like how in Jurassic World Dominion, when Sam Neill shows up as Dr. Alan Grant, there's no reason to assume it's the same Dr. Alan Grant from the Jurassic Park movies, just because he's played by the same actor and looks and sounds exactly like he did in Jurassic Park. The one in Dominion could be another Dr. Alan Grant from an alternate timeline where events unfolded differently than how they did in the Jurassic Park trilogy.

And Tobey Macguire in Spider-Man: No Way Home? How do we know its the same Spider-Man from the Raimi trilogy, because he's played by the same actor from those movies? Spider-Man: No Way Home is clearly a multiverse movie, there could a dozen DIFFERENT Spider-Men that ALL look like Tobey Maguire. We shouldn't assume this is the exact same one from THOSE three films.

Leonard Nimoy's Spock in the JJ movies... are we sure it's the SAME Spock from TOS and the first six movies? There could be numerous Spocks from alternate realities that ALL look like Leonard Nimoy, y'know! Maybe its the Mirror Universe Spock and he simply shaved his goatee?

Yep, its all making sense now!

In fact, George cLooney being in the film actually makes perfect sense when you think about it... he's the WORST live-action Batman by far, and Ezra Miller is the WORST live action Flash by far, so it's brilliant putting them on screen together. In fact, it should have been a cLooney/Miller team up movie the whole time!

[–] LanceDance (1088) 10 months ago

As ReelReviews14 said, "George Clooney looks like George Clooney" is not a valid argument. His Batman is a continuation of Keaton and Kilmer's Batmen. That is a fact that anyone with a device can verify themselves. They could've made a joke that Keaton didn't age well or something, but instead it seems the writers are that ignorant of DC that they might have actually thought Clooney's Batman was part of a separate continuity.

There's a teeny tiny chance that because Clooney was received so poorly, they're treating him as a separate Batman on purpose to disconnect him from the Keaton films, but that would be giving them too much credit. If none of the other casting changes I mentioned got reactions from the characters, then Barry shouldn't have looked so confused either.

[–] FilmBuff (6698) 10 months ago

You're purposely conflating your real-world knowledge of who George Clooney is with the role he's playing in a film.

The film is very straightforward, and everything "ReelReviews14" writes is nonsense. Barry went from a world in which Batman looks like Ben Affleck into one where he looks like Michael Keaton, and wound up in one where he looks like George Clooney. That's all there is to it. Anything else is you layering your own personal opinions atop the facts of the film.

[–] LanceDance (1088) 10 months ago

By that logic, in Justice League Barry lived in a world where his dad looked like Billy Crudup. In The Flash, he lives in a world where his dad looks like Ron Livingston. Did Barry flashpoint offscreen and then forget about it?

The film being very straightforward hurts it more than helps it.

[–] FilmBuff (6698) 10 months ago

Are you being serious? This is starting to feel like trolling...

Films recast actors from time to time. As an audience, we understand that the actor in the role is not the same as the character being portrayed. When Val Kilmer played Batman, it wasn't some sort of continuity error or plot hole that no one realized Bruce Wayne no longer looked like Michael Keaton. That's the nature of acting. You know this already, so why are you asking?

[–] LanceDance (1088) 10 months ago

I’m being serious, dude. I’m genuinely curious and confused as to now this came to be. I won’t lose sleep over it or anything, we’re just having a discussion, and now you seem to be saying two conflicting things. Your second paragraph seems to agree with what I’ve been saying this whole time, yet before you’ve been defending or overlooking the casting with faulty logic.

All I’m asking is why is Barry confused with Clooney when no other character had a problem? Why even bring him back if they’re just gonna treat him as someone else? What was the point? They might as well have kept Keaton or Affleck, or use another Batman actor from a different continuity.

[–] FilmBuff (6698) 10 months ago

No other character had a problem because in that universe, Clooney is Bruce Wayne, just as no one else in the previous universe had a problem with Bruce Wayne being Michael Keaton.

Maybe an example from the MCU will help.

No one noticed that Rhodey looked like Terrence Howard in Iron Man, but looked like Don Cheadle in Iron Man 2, because the CHARACTER was meant to be the same person. When roles are recast, we are meant to understand that to the characters in the film, nothing has changed.

Meanwhile, in Spider-Man: No Way Home, when Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield showed up, people did notice, because they were meant to be Peter Parkers from different realities who looked different.

Barry's father is akin to Rhodey. George Clooney is akin to Peter Parker. Does that clear this up?

[–] LanceDance (1088) 10 months ago

Yes yes, I already know all that, most of your examples were the first things I mentioned. The Spider-Men make sense because they actually were from different continuities. But Clooney shares Keaton’s continuity, so Barry should’ve recognized him.

And yet, why did Clooney’s appearance not matter back then, yet matter now? Why connect this movie to the Batman Quadrilogy if they’re just gonna pretend Clooney and Keaton are different Batmen?

[–] FilmBuff (6698) 10 months ago

They aren't.

In Batman & Robin George Clooney played the Batman in the universe in which Keaton and Clooney had played him. They were all meant to be the same guy. In The Flash Clooney plays a completely different Batman from a completely different movie. It's the same actor in two different roles.

Michelle Yeoh played one of the Ravagers in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, as well as Ying-Nan in Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. We’re not meant to think that Ying-Nan is a Ravager on the side, and were Shang-Chi to somehow have been kicking it with the Guardians, he wouldn’t have said “OMG why is Ying-Nan here?” It’s one actress in two roles.

[–] sanrain (74) 10 months ago

Both Tim Burton movies and Joel Schumacher films are set in different universes It was acknowledged by DC comics that Burton-verse is Earth-89 and "Batman & Robin" is in Earth-97.

[–] MCguy (949) 10 months ago

A 50-something Michale Keaton should have been there.

[–] sanrain (74) 10 months ago

They initially shot with it Keaton as we got the leaked pics on the internet but later they shot it again to make it look like he is in different Kilmer/Clooney universe.

[–] MCguy (949) 10 months ago

Thanks

[–] Rorikon (16442) 10 months ago

Heh, didn't realize that. Technically they are the same Batman but different directors with different directing style theme. Since the ending happened, I think it retconned the continuity so we can now separate Burton movies from Schumacher.

[–] shydwaynehobbs (280) 10 months ago

Because that scene was meant to be a joke!dont think Clooney is going to play batman anytime soon again!

[–] mikethemartian (6101) 10 months ago

I don’t think you will ever see Bale playing Batman in a movie not directed by Nolan.

[–] sanrain (74) 10 months ago

Earth-89 and Earth-97 are 2 different universes. I understand back in 90's WB never really thought this needs to be separated but in recent years people are seeing them as different one. It is to give Burton-verse a specific identity and not to get dragged with what Schumacher did. I get the examples of Iron Man and Hulk where characters are getting replaced with different actors but in this case people have started to see them differently that is the reason Barry did not recognize. The original ending which was shot is Barry actually meets Keaton again but then they shot the scene again with Clooney to make it in Earth 97. The actor getting replaced scenario only applies for Val Kilmer and George Clooney but not for Keaton as he never was in same universe.

Yes Alfred and Gordon was played by same actor as even Judi Dench played M in 2 different continuity one with Brosnan and another with Daniel Craig but that does not make both are in same universe. So it the same scenario here

[–] LanceDance (1088) 10 months ago

That somewhat makes sense, if it’s true. Otherwise, the four films are still connected, and Barry not recognizing Bruce in-universe makes no sense since he doesn’t have the meta-knowledge that the audience does.

Judi Dench returning as M in James Bond was certainly a weird choice when making a reboot, but I didn’t mention that because the Bond franchise isn’t like Marvel and DC, it doesn’t do the multiverse/timeline thing… yet.

[–] DoctorThirteen (10361) 10 months ago

Reading through the whole thread I entirely get your point, and there are some good answers. For me it hinges on the makers of The Flash announcing early on that the Kilmer and Clooney movies now took place in different universes/timelines to Keaton's. So that being the case, Bruce Wayne has now always looked like Kilmer in the BF universe/timeline, and he has now always looked like Clooney in the B&R universe/timeline. So a total stranger to Barry.

As for the Batman '89 comic, that was also announced in advance to reassign BF and B&R to different universes/timelines (I don't know if you've read the comic. I didn't think much of it).