Rory is an Awful Bitch. - Gilmore Girls (2000) Discussion

[–] Ziggy (1533) 7 years ago

I think the writers are trying to say that she's in her 20's and people in their 20's make mistakes. It's not crazy to be in your 20's and not ready to get married or not quite know what you are looking for in a partner. Seriously, the mistakes I made in my 20's ... I don't like to think about it, but I did learn a lot about myself!

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[–] fishrock (53) 7 years ago

but is clearly attracted to douche bag Tristan despite the fact that he's an utter tool [/i]

She is very clearly not even remotely attracted to him. She is just kind to him after she made it clear and he accepted it.

[i] Then years later when Dean is married, she fucks him destroying his marriage [/i]

Dean destroyed his own marriage up by fucking his ex instead his wife. How the fuck do you not hold Dean responsible for fucking up his marriage by cheating on his wife? He fucked a woman who was not his wife. Dean destroyed his marriage.

[i] she goes to Yale and hangs out with Marty who is treated like shit by uber douche Logan [/i]

Logan was a douche, sure. Nevertheless, she made it clear to Marty that she was not into him. To her, they were friends, nothing more, and she made that abundantly clear, early on.

[i] later confirmed when she doesn't want to marry him

Blind sided by a proposal she didn't expect or want in front of everybody in the world and expected to give an answer to spare his feelings and give him the dramatic moment HE wanted, she demurred. He should have known better. That wasn't a rejection, it was a "WTF are you thinking dropping that on me like that."

Not saying saying she never fucked up, because she did, but not for the reasons you say.

Not liking some guy who likes her, outgrowing relationships and moving on even when they don't, sleeping with an ex out of nostalgia, trusting instinct to reject a highly public marriage proposal that comes out of the blue..., that's normal life.

Not perfect, but not vile, rancid, or awful.

edit..., effing html tags
edit again, effing html tags. Screw it. It's them, not me.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

No-one is saying Dean doesn't have responsibility in wrecking his marriage. No-one ever has.

What all have said is Rory holds responsibility too as Dean didn't rape her. She dropped her panties knowing Lindsay was there and that divorce proceedings hadn't happened.

The best thing she could have done with Dean wa leave him alone after she ran off to New York to talk to Jess and then let things move organically with Dean. Not climb the tree to force him to not work through his feelings in his own time - she did that to make her feel better then when he didn't she still felt okay to move on with Jess. It would have at least made things clearer for both Jess (the guy she's been having an emotional affair with before the split) and Dean.

Granted she was a teenager but pick one and leave the other one alone until the dust settles then be polite if you bump into him on the street and don't force jack shit! Same thing with Tristian - she was capable of shutting him down, avoiding him when he was being a dick. But she didn't really, he teased she didn't tell him to truly go screw himself as it wasn't ASP's plan. If CMM had stayed pretty obvious he would have morphed into 'Logan' with Rory at his side and Dean and Jess on the side line.

But back to what we did have when his marriage breaks down, why does she got out with Dean again? Not out of realising she cares but because Marty asked if she had a boyfriend. Then she treats him like a fuck toy then starts ditching him when it isn't convenient for her because...Logan.

When she finds out about Logan and the bridesmaids what does she do. Hit the road to find Jess with a half mind to cheat. Why the fuck did Jess deserve that?

It isn't like something she grew out of it either she also has no problem dropping them again when she is older for Logan when she is dating someone she won't dump and he is dating someone else. She wasn't continually bumping into him. She was a freelancer who was getting nowhere, he was a prince of the publishing world (so much for hitting out on his own). But even if she did, dropping her panties is still on her.

She also dropped them for a furry encounter with a Wookie she just met after she ditched her mother when they were in the city.

Now I'm not saying Rory wasn't free to drop her panties with anyone she felt, but we should also get Rory does it with who she does it with as she has the emotional IQ of a toddler. Basically her EQ is as high as a two year old with a hammer.

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[–] fishrock (53) 7 years ago

The best thing someone could have done and what they did do is not usually the same. It is only as an observer or in retrospect that that can be examined.

My point is that the OP blamed Rory for fucking up Dean's marriage, never even mentioning Dean's culpability at all. Strictly speaking, Rory made no promises to Lindsay, no vows, and owed Lindsay nothing. Dean was 100% responsible for his actions, which were cheating on his wife. Rory didn't cheat on anyone.

Again, not saying Rory didn't fuck up. She did plenty. But not in any of the OP's stated instances. Or yours

All the hypothetical 'could have done this better' scenarios are meaningless, because they didn't do that. Dean could have not married Lindsay when he was still in love with Rory, and could have not cheated on his wife. Jess could have not been a dick and relentlessly pursued Rory, stealing her stuff, when she wanted nothing to do with him and was obviously unavailable and with someone else. Marty could have moved on years earlier. Tristan could have spent his energy on his girlfriend rather than make a game of getting the new girl and getting all pissy when she didn't want any of it. Logan could have let Rory enjoy her graduation party without blindsiding her with a marriage proposal, totally hijacking her party and making it all about him.

But no..., Rory fucked up all these guys lives by being the center of their juvenile attentions.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

Rory took part in helping someone cheat on someone. She made no vows to Lindsay but she knew Lindsay existed and ran Lindsay down. Means she didn't give a shit about anyone outside Rory getting her rocks off when she was with Dean. She is smart enough to get the shit would hit the fan when it came out and if she didn't the first time she got it the second considering they met in a semi public place.

That isn't saying Dean isn't responsible for sticking things in the wrong place but Rory isn't a snowflake who has no input or power in her encounters and that is what me and the OP and others are pointing to. She does so she has to be held to account for her part because Rory's screw ups don't happen just once or twice or somewhere we as an audience don't see it. She is one of the main characters on the show so we see her cock ups more than others and as the OP points out her score sheet isn't good!

But if you think she hasn't then, even though me and others say it I don't know what to say. As you seem to be saying that you think it is okay to sleep with someone when you know someone else is in the picture? Or to look up an ex with the idea of using them to hurt the person you are with. Or to be into someone else when with someone else but hanging on because you'll know they will end it and you can move on to the person you wanted to isn't scummy.

The thing is even if you do Rory in the show knows these things are wrong in the context of others - She chews Paris out for Asher while dating someone else, she is pissed at her mother, she tells Tristain off for his treatment of Paris.

It is just when it comes to herself Rory doesn't practice what she preaches which makes a bit of a bitch.

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[–] fishrock (53) 7 years ago

Yes, she is a main character. So we see all her fuck ups. That does not excuse all the fuck ups the secondary characters make.

I do not think it was okay for Rory to sleep with Dean after he was married. That would be one of the fuck ups I said Rory has made plenty of. How many times to I have to say this? But it was Dean that fucked up his marriage. He cheated on his wife with his ex. That is the bottom line. HE broke his vows and promises. HE cheated on his wife. Rory just banged an ex.

But EVERYBODY makes excuses for Dean. He fucking cheated on his wife. Rory didn't cheat on anyone. But somehow, she is the one in the wrong. Poor pathetic Dean, Rory fucked up his life by allowing Dean to cheat on his wife with her.

Look at the title of this thread. That is what I replied to.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

Then start a thread complaining about Dean.

This thread is complaining about Rory's behaviour when it comes to her love life. Not just with Dean but multiple men.

She knew Jess was insecure about Dean but didn't actually do the work to tell him to get over it or leave Dean alone.

She didn't shut Tristain down when she completely knew what he was doing

She didn't shut Jess down when she got that as well

She strung Dean along when she wanted Jess. She ragged on Shane who did nothing to her apart from be with the guy Rory wanted

She ragged on Lindsay and didn't apologise when caught

She slept with Lindsay's husband when she knew Lindsay was still in the picture

She turned back up on Dean's doorstep so she could get a safe boyfriend

She strung Dean along when she started to get into Logan

She went to use Jess to get back at Logan

She didn't tell Marty to cut out his shit in that badly contrived plot

But it is wrapped up in how these guys hurt her when she has a fuck load if power in these relationships for it not to get to that fucked up point in the first place.

And it doesn't change in the revival

She was going out with a guy she refused to dump while screwing a guy with a long term girlfriend

She dumped her mother in New York to screw a guy in a wookie costume she just met

But they still package that behaviour in a nice 'moral' middle class girl from a single parent home who has supposedly trying to plug away at the coal face, even though she hasn't - sure she's smart but Rory didn't get to stay in Chilton or Yale due to her winning a scholarship, it was on her grandparents dime. Something most people don't have. She didn't simply show she was a brilliant journalist - her first in was a piece she wrote for a friend of Logan. But she has an aent whoputs up with her running around streets to get reception when she has the common sense to call him back on the cell that has reception. Rory in real life would be a car crash you'd avoid but we watch as she is ASP's wish fulfilment character.

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[–] fishrock (53) 7 years ago

I don't actually feel the need to start a thread complaining about fictional characters acting like people do in real life. Sometimes, I like to point out to those that do that their take is one sided, and utterly ignores that interactions and behavior are rarely one sided, and that all interactions require, well, interaction.

So there are at least two sides. And, both sides can fuck up. In fact, it makes for more interesting drama when neither side can be easily seen as completely faultless.

But it is a little irritating to me when the popular notion completely ignores the wrongs of one side and dumps it all on the other. I have, in every single comment in this thread, acknowledged that Rory fucks up plenty and not made excuses for her. She is not the only one, nor are hers any worse. Unless you want to see them that way.

I haven't seen the revival yet.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

Oh I agree both sides can fuck up and threads can be a bit one sided and I agree it is easy to pick apart Rory because she is the main character of the show.

But part of the reason we do is because a lot of her behaviour isn't actually addressed in the show, where as everyone else is painted as the bigger fuckup and gets hit in the face with it.

Dean's consequence with the affair - he is thrown out of his home, has to live with disapproving parents, talked about all around town,and finds his relationship after the breakup is a complete disaster. It is a consequence of his out of line behaviour.

But Rory - what we see is she sleeps with a married man, gets a 5 star European holiday, distance from the marriage split and the man (till she doesn't really want him any more). Rory's part in the marriage break up is mentioned by no-one else. Lane, the friend who won't have sex before marriage becomes Rory's cheerleader and so does Dean's sister. Sure she gets a stern talking to by her mother a couple times, but nothing more outside that she cares about. Now I come from a small town, that news would spread like wild fire and sure friends protect each party in public but behind closed doors you get an earful.

The same goes with the Dean/Rory breakups before too - Rory never corrected anyone when they started ragging on Dean - she didn't stand up for him after Luke, a grown man assaulted him. We didn't see any real fall out with regard to the end of their relationship when he dumped her at the marathon and then she suddenly started going out with Jess.

With Jess - we don't see her calling him out on his crap. Or telling anyone else about it. But everyone assumes that everything that goes wrong is Jess' fault. A lot of it is but Rory didn't help by not communicating with the guy she got emotionally involved with because they got things on a deeper level than her and Dean.

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[–] fishpan (544) 7 years ago

Also what isn't great is we do see Rory call others out on their behaviour and I can't remember once them getting defensive and throwing Rory's past mistakes back at her.

Paris and Asher - Rory goes nuts about Paris cheating on Jamie. But Paris had a front row seat when Rory cheated on Dean with Jess before this point got that things were complicated and then later on slept with Dean while she knew Lindsay was about. And Paris never threw that back at her. That is well...inhuman behaviour on Paris' part considering the fights the two of them had.

But hey threads like this are basically a good way to vent about a fictitous person who we are suppose to route for and finding like minded people who have also found reasons that we can't.

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[–] fishrock (53) 7 years ago

That is really my point. All the characters are decent people who make mistakes, and this show is entirely about mistakes, consequences, adapting, correcting, making more mistakes, moving past them, the inherent unfairness in the universe, jumping to conclusions like they are a lifeboat, and growing in the process. Hell, the whole show is built around a mistake, an unintended unwanted teenage pregnancy, and living with the consequences of the mistake, and, doing a pretty decent job of it.

Dean is a genuinely decent young man. Jess is a genuinely decent young man, but a bit of a jerk. Logan is spoiled and undisciplined and full of himself, but, and it pains me to say, a decent young man. Even Tristan, who is an asshole of the highest order, is not really a bad kid.

Rory is flawed, no more than any of them. Considerably less flawed than Paris. But Paris is also a genuinely decent person, just incredibly high strung, paranoid and needy. Nobody shits all over Paris.

Threads like this shit all over Lorelai and Rory, and never even Emily, who seriously..., the woman is horrible at times, but, Emily is a decent person who is motivated by what she believes is best, and those beliefs are not wrong in any sense that matters other than they are wrong for Lorelai. And, Lorelai can't outgrow her anger at her mother.

I am not sure there is a single character on that show that was without character flaw. The peripheral characters had flaws, minor maybe, they were gossips, rude, meddlesome, weird, controlling, apathetic, obnoxious, and so on. But, all of them were decent people. Flawed, but decent. Like the real world.

The show is about family, dysfunctional as every interesting family will be, friendships, unlikely though they may be, trust as a leap of faith, loyalty even when questionable, and, of course, love. And mistakes. And forgiveness. And coffee.

And pop culture references.

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[–] fishrock (53) 7 years ago

did you see the new series where Rory fucked some random furry guy in a Starbucks line?

Like, as if to illustrate my point. (I started watching the revival, got this far.)

Do you get what I am saying? Even you said she ditched her Mom to fuck Chewbacca. Her mom left her to go back to the hotel room because she was tired and bored with Rory's project. Rory didn't ditch her mom. Nobody ditched anybody.

And Rory decided to hang out with some people afterward, spent an evening socializing with other young people, connected with one, and had a one night stand. Her first, a 32 year old unmarried woman having a one night stand, and despite the fact she is horrified that she did that..., OMFG..., we need to nuke her from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Except "Rory fucked some random furry in a Starbucks line" is not what happened. But that just doesn't matter to whoever posted that.

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[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

You're supposed to understand her and her awful behavior. The writers want to justify the romances as though Rory is a moral character (you know... because she reads and does well in school). She's the machinations of a west coast writer trying to promote the strong single woman. In the end, Rory becomes a user of men... like her mom. She is unlikeable because she doesn't mind tearing relationships apart for the next guy. You are not awful like she is because you have real morals and you care about people. That's a good thing. My wife and her best friend watched this show and eventually came to the same conclusions as you. Rory was supposed to be this hopeful and bright girl. In the end, she acted like an ass and hurt those who were close to her.

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[–] legnadibrom (5719) 7 years ago

did you see the new series where Rory fucked some random furry guy in a Starbucks line?

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[–] beauq81 (1017) 7 years ago

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7bm4ey/rory-from-gilmore-girls-is-actually-the-worst

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[–] zkash (24) 4 years ago

she didnt marry him because she tought shes too young. even though her friend had babies at that age. i dont get why she didnt marry him tho. like she loved him and theyve been together long enough.

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[–] Zinger (2164) 4 years ago

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[–] Colorado_Kid (209) 3 years ago

Sleeping with a married person isn't being stupid or an error in judgement but a selfish act. Rory knew very well that sleeping with Dean would ruin a marriage but she didn't care except for what she wanted and that was typical Rory. It's like when she sees someone sitting under her study tree and tells him he has to move and when he doesn't she goes home in a bad mood.

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[–] joi2049 (5488) 3 years ago

In the end, Rory becomes a user of men... like her mom.

This seems to SUM IT UP pretty well. The thing to NOTE 📌 is how her mother LUSTS after her RICH FATHER while the BLUE COLLAR (and not as rich) LUKE character carries a TORCH for her mother (which also parallels the way that DEAN is also the BLUE COLLAR character who LOVES RORY while she LUSTS after and for the RICH LOGAN character). And at one point DEAN also WARNS LUKE that this was the case.

And the realization that LOGAN was "like her FLAKEY father" is probably also part of the reason why she turns down Logan's proposal (because she also saw what happened when her Mom marries her father).

Plus her mother was also ENGAGED to marry that other TEACHER from Rory's PREP school, and then RAN AWAY without giving him any CLUE as to why she changed her mind. So how surprised should we be that RORY also RAN AWAY after she had sex with DEAN??? Both of them are definitely "COMMITMENT PHOBES." But that teacher was also talking to her mother as if he had plans on RUNNING the life of RORY (which was also NOT OK when she also wasn't his daughter).

So YES, you're right about how RORY "wanted what she wanted," and that was typical, but DEAN also did LIE to RORY letting her assume that his relationship with his wife was OVER WITH when it was not. Because Dean had LUSTED after RORY for so long that he'd also say anything at that point to get what he wanted and never got (even though he'd also made an automobile for her that Rory let JESS wreck).

Both Rory and her mother were TORN between 2 WORLDS. That of the LOWER CLASS BLUE COLLAR's and that of the UPPER CLASS WHITE COLLAR's (TUX WEARING, RICH GUYS). But RORY also didn't grow up in that world like her mother had, which is probably also why she'd have been better off if her grandmother never became a part of her life.

But since her mother also wanted RORY to "live the LIFE that she'd never had" (due to getting PREGNANT at age 16), she asks Rory's grandmother for FINACIAL HELP to put RORY though PREP SCHOOL, Rory gets a STUCK UP ATTITUDE as a result of that, DUMPS DEAN, and the rest is HISTORY.

So in the end her mother DUMPS her SPOILED RICH FATHER for BLUE COLLAR LUKE, and Rory DUMPS DEAN for LOGAN, before she also DUMPS LOGAN at the end of the show to pursue some other dream about being as famous as the other CNN JOURNALIST that she admires.

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[–] fc31 (4563) 3 years ago

I think that is the point of the show. Rory did not mean any of them to happen, but they just happened. I don't think she seduced Dean, both of them were clearly at fault. Heart of a young girl is a fickle thing, I think that is what it is about. Rory is also ambitious, everything else is just byproduct of boredom.

She is also awful to her grandparents, but then again they do have problems of their own.

The popularity of show dropped I don't think was because of Rory, but her mother and her mother's break up with Luke.

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