MovieChat Forums > Titanic (1997) Discussion > Rose's mother was a biatch.

Rose's mother was a biatch.


I hope that she died in the poorhouse.

(I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.)

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I agree that Ruth didn't come across a nice person. Nevertheless though, I don't believe that she was completely rotten. It is too bad that she could never really connect to Rose before they never saw each other again.

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I've admitted that I've criticized Ruth priorly because of her snotty attitude and bad sides. Yet however, she wasn't completely one-dimensional either. She did genuinely love her daughter and urged her to marriage because of their financial circumstances. Yet it's a pity that the conflict between mother and daughter (for what was shown in the movie) was never restored.

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Absolutely. And as much as I do like Rose otherwise, I find it cold-hearted of her that she (as far as we know) never got in touch with her mother again and told her that she had survived the Titanic disaster. And yes, I know that they'd had a lot of different opinions. But surely what had gone wrong between them could have been resolved as the years went by?

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Well, to be fair, we don't exactly know if Rose actually got in touch with her mother again. But it's easy to assume a story, hahahahaha.

I think the characters in "Titanic" are far more nuanced and dimensional that people give them credit for and Ruth was one of them.

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True, nothing in the movie specifically states that Rose never got in touch with her mother again. But that is the feeling I get, because it was so important to her to completely break away from her old life. Then again, I guess that since the movie never really addressed the issue, well, that means that we're free to assume the best instead of the worst.

And I agree with you about Ruth. Sure, she is very snobbish. And for the longest time, she doesn't seem to notice that her daughter is unhappy enough to attempt suicide (Rose would have jumped into the ocean, if it hadn't been for Jack arriving there at the exact right moment). But she can't help that she acted like an upper class lady in that era would have acted.

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Well, that's true.

When it comes to Rose, I'll admit that there were times in later viewings where I did found her grating. Mostly in the way she rebelled throughout the second and last third of the movie. It's logically understandable, but somehow she became even more of a brat by rebelling.

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I guess that Rose had to rebel or commit suicide, as extreme as it must sound. She was simply not the type, who could fake a demure exterior and suffer through a marriage to a rich but abusive asshole. Tragedy would come sooner or later, even if she had married Cal according to her mother's wishes. Because even though Rose was a beautiful girl from the upper class, she was not trophy wife material. And it was sad to see how little Ruth understood that.

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I can't see any reason why she would get in touch with her mother again. It would render changing her name as largely pointless. If she had gotten in touch with her mother again she would have dealt with was the pressure to marry Cal or some other rich suitor unknown to her.

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But if you ask me, she should have let her mother know that she had survived the Titanic disaster. Because no matter how strained their relationship had been, they still were each other's closest living family member. But yes, she should have also told her mother that meeting and losing Jack had totally changed her life. So from now on, she would make her own choices.

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" I don't believe that she was completely rotten."

Unless you were rich, I don't think she cared much for anyone.

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I hope she found a rich husband for herself... And he treated her the way Cal treated her daughter.

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I wouldn't be surprised if that was what happened. After all, Ruth didn't have too many other options after Rose disappeared.

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Well I am sure that Ruth wasn't the slut that Rose was, so if she married a man like Cal then she was likely alright.

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Oh honey, behaving yourself isn't enough to keep a man like Cal from being controlling and abusive!

A man like that will abuse his wife over tiny things, to show her who's boss, because he's in a bad mood, because he's angry at someone he can't hit, or just because he likes being cruel to people who can't fight back.

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Right on! Even if Rose hadn't left Cal for another man, he would have treated her like a part of his property.

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I agree Ruth was pushing it a bit hard, but I thought she had enough sense in these circumstances and wasn't really much of a bitch. I even kind of feel the same way with Cal, who was highly narcissistic. Despite his disdain for the lower classes and Jack I thought he was acting reasonably until he decided to get revenge on Jack by framing him. I actually thought Cal's overreaction at breakfast was reasonable (minus flipping over the table), since Rose had enough nerve to talk back to when he was simply being civil (Do you understand?) when he told her she would never behave that way again. That's never a way you talk to your husband when he's simply asking you in a civil manner not to do something again. Rose was the real bitch in that scene. She was completely irrational in this movie to her mother and Cal from the very beginning, regardless of how depressed she was.

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You see? Even when you try to defend Cal, you happen to list some nasty parts of his personality (narcissism, snobbery, violence, vengefulness). So how is Rose a bitch to him for not being happy with this?

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I actually have some sympathy for Ruth. I have no patience for her behaviour -- either her own snottishness or the way she demeans and exploits Rose -- but she's a product of her time and circumstances, and she's trying to survive. She's been forced to play a game she's ill-equipped for.

The contrived misandrony of the script, and of Ruth's dialogue in particular, always makes me wince -- especially when you consider that, just a short while later, the women get to ride to safety in the lifeboats purely by virtue of their gender, while the oh-so-privileged men are expected to stay behind and die without complaint -- but Ruth is right in some of what she says: her choices are limited, and she's holding on to her options by her fingernails.

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I agree. Ruth could be a nasty character, but that is how many upper class women were back then. It is funny though how Rose was so different from her mother. But maybe her father had influenced her into not being happy with becoming some uptight high society wife? We know hardly anything about him except that he was dead and had left his wife and daughter with big debts, so I guess that it could be a possibility...

I don't see where this script contains any misandry though, so you have to elaborate on that one.

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