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If you were Butch, would you go back for Marcellus?


https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/rzeia4/pulp_fiction_if_you_were_butch_would_you_go_back/

On one hand, if you save his life, he may call off the dogs out of gratitude that could very likely hunt you and your girlfriend down and murder you.

On the other hand.

He might not. While he's grateful to be alive, that doesn't change the fact that he's pissed off about the way you fucked him. Especially since you just murdered his sole remaining hitman after Jules quit the biz (not that you know that).

With you escaping and leaving him behind, it's essentially guaranteed that the hillbillies would have murdered him after raping him and the likelihood that the remaining gangsters pursue you after the death of Vincent and Marcellus seems slim. There would probably be some kind of power struggle within whatever organization Marcellus ran or it would simply, based on its relatively modest size, would probably fizzle out as the remaining players went elsewhere for work.

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I guess butch had a code, an “honor among thieves” type thing. You can see he thought about it as he was preparing to leave, but decided he couldn’t let Marcellus go out like that.

But I always wondered if butch would remain free from Marcellus’ wrath. Wallace isn’t aware of Vincent Vega’s fate yet.

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Marcellus was an enemy of Butch but it was not personal, it was business. there was a financial dispute between them and it was resorting to deadly violence but i think they still had mutual respect for each other as men. if Marcellus was simply to be killed then Butch probably would have allowed it and left since his life was on the line too but since Marcellus was facing a gay gang rape he just had to take the risk and save him. Marcellus wanted to kill Butch since he had to keep his street cred in rep after taking that big boxing loss but he was planning to do it humanely enough and Butch knew that. he couldnt in his right conscience allow his adversary go out like that, there wasnt any hate between them it was just business

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What makes you think Marcellus was planning to kill Butch "humanely"? He was a ruthless gangster who had just been screwed over and lost a lot of money as a result. Given the chance, I bet Marcellus and his thugs would have had Butch worked over pretty good before burying him.

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idk i feel like Marcellus was a super rich and power street boss and had lots of money and real estate. he wasnt killing him for ego or emotional reasons, it was business, he needed to show the streets if u dont pay u disappear. maybe it would not be the most humane killing ever but it wouldnt have been a gang rape killing by any means. Butch disrespected Marcellus enough to steal his money but he didnt disrespect him enough to let him get raped to death by some homos

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The fact that Marcellus was a mob (or "street") boss is exactly why I believe Butch would have been punished so harshly. He not only disrespected Marcellus, but straight up betrayed him and screwed him out of a bunch of money. As you said, a message needs to sent to the streets. A quick, painless "disappearance" doesn't send a very strong message.

You want to keep people in line in Marcellus' line of work, you don't do things "humanely". You put Butch's head on a pike.

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yeah maybe i was wrong to say humanely. what i mean is he wouldnt have gay raped at least

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Personally, no, I would have left. Putting myself in Butch's shoes, I don't care whether the grudge between Marcellus and myself was business or personal—he had put a hit out on me, and just moments earlier was trying to murder me himself. As far as I'm concerned, I don't owe him shit.

Throw in the possibility of a failed rescue attempt leading to my own rape/murder—or even a successful attempt leading to Marcellus deciding to kill me anyways (who knows how rationally a murderous gangster is going react immediately after being brutally raped?)—and yeah, I'm outta there. Nice knowing ya, Marcellus.

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that rational thing to do would be let him die in the homo gangbang but Butch had too much pride to do that. the reason he fucked up the fight and took Marcellus's money wasnt for greed or love of money, it was because Butch was too proud of a man to throw the fight. he took pride in his dads war death and had flashbacks of Christopher Walkin giving him his dads dead anus watch back to him as a kid. he risked his own life and ass virginity to save Marcellus for the same reason he risked his life the first place throwing the fight, pride. it was against his moral code to let his enemy die in such a sick fucked up way. Butch is a man willing to die for his principles. he wasnt a rational man, more of an idealistic one

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I agree Butch was a proud man, and that's likely why he didn't throw the fight. But why would pride cause him to risk everything to save the life of an enemy? I don't see the connection there.

The reason Butch returned to rescue Marcellus strikes me as heroic altruism, more so than pride. Butch's actions in the scene reveal him to be both fearless yet also compassionate. It makes him a more likable character, despite his flaws. Had Butch rescued Marcellus merely out of hubris, the scene would have been less effective, and Butch wouldn't be quite such a great character.

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Butch stands firmly against gay rape even of an enemy

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So you believe the main issue was the rape, then?

If, for example, Marcellus was going to be tortured/murdered in some other way, but not raped, you don't think Butch would have gone back for him? Not saying I agree or disagree; just curious about your take.

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yeah i think the rape was what took it over the line

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Interesting. I just re-watched the scene, and there's a clear point where Butch is about to leave the shop, but stops in the doorway. He hears Marcellus being raped from the basement and pauses for several seconds, clearly disturbed by what he hears. He then turns back for Marcellus, despite the danger.

I'm unsure if Butch would have reacted the same way had the screams been caused by something other than rape, but I suppose you could be right.

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yeah exactly he is wrestling with the thought of going back and really doesn't want to since he knows logically it's not the right move but once again like before his pride this is too strong to allow even his worst enemy to go out like that

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Nope, if I was Butch and had that chance to escape after knocking out the gimp, I would have done. Far more risk in going back to help Marcellus out when you are virtually in the clear. Not only do you not know if Marcellus will abandon the hit on you, he might even want to have you killed so word of him being raped doesn't get around. Plus, although it went smoothly for Butch in taking care of the pawnshop owner and his cop friend, that part of it may not have gone to plan.

I'm glad Butch did go back, not just because it gave us the scenes that followed, but it made him a more moral character.

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I would have bailed.
Ok Butch is strong, but a katana vs 2 men, who were both carrying firearms 10 minutes before? Not great odds to make it.
That alone makes me doubtful.
Had he found a loaded gun, maybe.

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I don't think anyone could truthfully answer that question unless the events ACTUALLY happened to them.

Some would want payback. Some would run and call it sweet luck.

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Pulp Fiction Theory Finally Explains Why Butch Saved Marsellus

https://screenrant.com/why-butch-saved-marsellus-wallace-pulp-fiction-theory/

Butch ended up saving Marsellus in Pulp Fiction even though Marsellus wanted to kill him, and a theory explains why Butch made that decision.

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I would have gone back for him. Leaving another man or anyone for that matter, to be raped and murdered is not something I would want on my conscience, as well as living with for that matter. It’s one thing to kill another man or woman in self defense, but to leave that same individual to the wolves (in this case, morally depraved sadistic wolves) is something else entirely. Of course circumstances play a role, if Marcellus had hurt my family or someone I knew personally in a way that even bordered unforgivable, I would most likely be indifferent to his suffering. But because it was my own double crossing that led to Marcellus trying to kill me, that changes things, and from his point of view it’s business and that’s all it is. I’m not going to leave someone to die because I fucked them over and they attempted to kill me over it.
Not trying to sound like a tough guy or anything, it’s just principle.
Also, as an infantryman the leave no man behind philosophy is ingrained in my makeup.

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