Not as good as Part 1


I don't understand why people say this is better than part 1 at all. The plot is basically recycled from the original with a few of the characters roles rearranged. The movie is full of humor that doesn't work, for example the sunglasses scene. In the original film, the T-800 puts on the glasses to hide his exposed cyborg eye. In this movie, it's played just for laughs.

The T-1000 is nowhere near as intimidating as a villain as Arnold was in the original. I'm sorry, but the actor playing him was just too skinny. This movie also just felt too clean for me and lacked the grit of the original. T2 is a good film and I'll admit it's the best of the Terminator sequels, however the original is still king as far as I'm concerned.

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Both are masterpieces but the original is way darker, grittier and more desperate.

You feel the doom on the heads of the characters.

For the T1000, the original Terminator was meant to be an average looking man and Lance Henriksen was supposed to play the part, he was also very skinny. Arnie was meant to be Kyle Reese so they reworked the concept of everyday man in T2.

Juliet Parrish: You can't win a war if you're extinct!

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I agree with you 100%, OP.

The Terminator is still the best of the series. It always will be.


------
Mischief. Mayhem. Soap.

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When I was a kid growing up watching this movie over and over again I didn't think i'd ever find a cooler action movie anywhere.

But now that i'm older and understand the concept of originality alot better, I do believe The Terminator is a better movie. all sequels do is just build on what happens in the original and while alot of sequels might be enjoyable to a certain extent, there's never that charm there that the original had.

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It's almost exclusively "NES Kids" who think T2 is better than T1. They saw T2 long before they saw T1, and since they were little shits at the time, they looked up to Edward Furlong as a "cool, older kid" instead of the annoying shithead that he is, and the idea of having a pet Terminator just like John Connor did made them feel giddy. Also, their parents bought them T2 toys.

The exact same phenomenon exists with Mike Tyson's Punch-Out (NES, 1987) vs. the original arcade games (Punch-Out and Super Punch-Out from 1984). NES Kids nearly always prefer MTPO despite it being inferior to the arcade versions in every way.

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STUPID,RUDE REPLY.

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Your non sequitur is dismissed, CAPTAIN ALL CAPS.

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ALL THE T2 FANS ARE LITTLE SHIT NES FANS WHO LOOK UP TO EDWARD FURLONG.....DISMISS AWAY,YOU ARE PAINTING YOURSELF IGNORANT JUST FINE SOLO.

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"ALL THE T2 FANS ARE LITTLE SHIT NES FANS WHO LOOK UP TO EDWARD FURLONG"

You "almost" got that right, CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK. Add the word "almost" or "nearly" before the word "all," change "T2 fans" to "people who like T2 better than T1," change "are" to "were," and change "NES fans" to "NES Kids," and then it will be right.

I suggest you enroll in a remedial reading class, and also, buy a new keyboard. The one you have is stuck in caps lock mode.

"DISMISS AWAY,YOU ARE PAINTING YOURSELF IGNORANT JUST FINE SOLO."

Your non sequitur is dismissed, and since you have no arguments, your concession is noted.

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GOTTALOVE PEOPLE WHO SAY IGNORANT SHIT AND THEN ARGUE IT AWAY OVER A WORD HERE OR THERE...REPEATING YOURSELF ON THOSE NOT CLEVER THE FIRST TIME RUDE BITS,THATS JUST AWKWARD.

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It's not just "a word here or there," dumbass. What you claimed I said was completely different than what I actually said. There's a huge difference between "all" and "almost all," and there's also a huge difference in meaning with every other word or term that, due to your unfortunate reading deficiency, you got wrong.

Your tacit concession remains noted.

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OKAY.IT SEEMS TO MEAN A LOT TO YOU..YOU HAVE MY CONCESSION..I SINCERELY HOPE THIS MOVIECHAT WIN MAKES YOUR DAY.

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"YOU HAVE MY CONCESSION"

Thank you Captain Obvious, but I already noted your concession.

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YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME.

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You are a jerk and a bully, Maximrecoil! An arrogant self absorbed jerk! You won't have any friends in life making such arrogant selfish remarks! Just because you think everyone should think what you think and that anyone who doesn't think what you think is an idiot! Because that's what arrogant selfish people act like!

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T1 by far a better story. Groundbreaking.

T2 CG visual effects blew the roof off the dump.

Overall, T1 better. Today, CG Visual effects are nice, but they’re quickly dated and relied on by lazy production companies. They’re cheap and easy and NOT impressive anymore.

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Agreed, T1 had the better story, pacing, characters, development, world building, music and acting.

T2 had better action, CGI visuals, and superior cinematography.

T1 is a far superior film, T2 is really good too but not as good except for some of the visuals and action sequences.

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"T2 had better action, CGI visuals, and superior cinematography."

The CGI in T2 sucked. It was very primitive and didn't look real at all (I didn't think it looked real in 1991 either). Fortunately, a lot of what people thought was CGI in T2 was actually practical effects, and they were well done. For example, the little metallic craters that appeared in the T1000 whenever it got shot were real, practical effects. It was only the "healing" of them that was CGI. When they showed the T1000, disguised as John's foster mother, with a spike through the foster father's head, that was a practical effect, and so on. CGI was just used for basic morphing and blending effects, all of which were lacking in the detail needed to make them look real.

Saying that a movie has "superior cinematography" to another movie is meaningless, because "cinematography" is a nebulous concept. However, T1 has far better picture quality on the 2013 Blu-ray release than any T2 Blu-ray release has. The 2013 T1 Blu-ray transfer is one of the best I've ever seen, while the T2 transfers range from bad to looking like a wax museum. Picture quality is far more important to me than some undefined level of superiority in the ill-defined concept of "cinematography."

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Disagree. The morphing effect blew people’s minds at the time of T2.

Thanks to T1, Aliens, and even The Abyss, T2 had the advantage of having a much bigger budget and advances in CGI so of course it would look better.

I’m still kinda old school when it comes to visual effects and prefer stop motion and miniatures. Optical effects are just so much fricken work.

As for the movie, Linda Hamilton was way to manly and not believable. And I didn’t care for the John Conner character. Always found him to be annoying.

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"Disagree. The morphing effect blew people’s minds at the time of T2."

I saw T2 on opening day in 1991 when I was 16. The CGI was impressive from a technical perspective, but it didn't look real. When you see, for example, the T1000 in the form of a featureless metal man, or when he's morphing into the helicopter or down through the ceiling of the elevator, etc., that in no way looks like real metal, or a real object of any kind. Compare it to the real metal that they used for the pieces on the steel mill floor after he was shattered and they melted; huge difference.

"Thanks to T1, Aliens, and even The Abyss, T2 had the advantage of having a much bigger budget and advances in CGI so of course it would look better."

The T2 special effects look great except for most of the CGI. It is jarring and out of place, because it doesn't look real. When he walked through the jail bars in the mental hospital, that bit of CGI looked okay, but only because it wasn't a case of them creating an object with it.

"As for the movie, Linda Hamilton was way to manly and not believable. And I didn’t care for the John Conner character. Always found him to be annoying."

Linda Hamilton was great in T1, entirely believable. In T2 Cameron turned her into a caricature of a "strong woman," she was like a female version of John Matrix from Commando; not even remotely believable and almost as annoying as Edward Furlong's John Connor. She was even worse in Terminator: Dark Fate though. She was like a female version of the intentionally over-the-top, satirical Jack Slater character from Last Action Hero.

T2 had a lot of potential. If Sarah had believable character development from her character in T1; if John Connor had been about 16 and played by an actual actor instead of some shithead kid off the street, and if Arnold's Terminator hadn't acted like he was John Connor's pet, it would have been awesome. Arnold's Terminator in T3 was done a lot better; he didn't kowtow to John Connor or anyone else. He was an asshole, just as you'd expect a cold, calculating machine to be.

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Linda Hamilton was not too manly, I disagree. What she was was supposed to be almost pretending to be divorced from emotion and more machine like (or more like Kyle was) and it was supposed to be because she was mentally overwhelmed by the situation. Here response was to 'act like a soldier'.

But this is contrasted by her motherly instincts that show through at certain key moments; like when she does not kill Dyson in from of his kids. I thought they balanced the idea of a strong woman while keeping the feminine characteristics alive in the character perfectly.

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The effect, both CGI and practical in T2 are better than T1, but not necessarily better than other movies. I was not saying they were great even by todays standards; only that the effect were better in T2 than T1; I am surprised anyone would even argue with that.

Superior cinematography is no meaningless and also not meaningless for comparing an original with a sequel. I was not comparing apples to oranges. If you think cinematography is nebulous you don't understand what it is. It is about angles, lighting, shooting and framing a sequence. All of this is important to how the actual picture will look.

I am not scene the blu ray release of T1 or T2, I would have to take a look to compare them. But even if the picture quality of T1 blu ray is better than T2; that has nothing to do with cinematography. The manner in which you dismiss it suggest strongly you just don't understand what it is. An example of good cinematography is the scene when the Terminator jumps the Harley into the reservoir. The angles that it was shot at and the frame changes and timing of the transitions from frame to frame are all aspects of cinematography and T2 had many examples that were absolutely terrific such as this one.

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"The effect, both CGI and practical in T2 are better than T1"

There is no CGI in T1, so how can the CGI in T2 be better than the [non-existent] CGI in T1?

"If you think cinematography is nebulous you don't understand what it is."

You have that backwards. Anyone who says that cinematography isn't nebulous doesn't understand what it is. It is defined simply as "the art or science of motion-picture photography."

"It is about angles, lighting, shooting and framing a sequence. All of this is important to how the actual picture will look."

Of course cinematography is important to how the picture will look. However, to say that one movie has "better cinematography" than another, you have to be able to quantify it. Which angle is best? It depends. Which type and amount of lighting is best? It depends. Which type of framing is best? It depends. Not only are all those things dependent on what you're trying to capture/express in any given shot, but the answer to the question of which is best for any given scenario is always an opinion, not a fact. It's a nebulous term if used in the context of placing a value on it (such as "better") like you did. There are an infinite number of variables in cinematography and no concrete value metric for any of them.

"I am not scene the blu ray release of T1 or T2, I would have to take a look to compare them. But even if the picture quality of T1 blu ray is better than T2; that has nothing to do with cinematography."

Yes, it does. The selection of the type of film used for any given scene, the amount of lighting, the type of lens, and the degree of focus all fall under the broad category of cinematography, and they are what primarily determines picture quality. Also, Cameron made a stupid decision to shoot T2 on Super 35 with a spherical lens, and cropping it to 2.35:1, which results in a lower resolution than T1 had, which was shot on 35mm with a spherical lens but only cropped to 1.85:1. Had he used an anamorphic lens like most people who shoot 2.35:1 movies do, it would have had more resolution than T1 (due to not being cropped at all, i.e., using the entire 35mm frame for picture information instead of a lot of it being cropped away). Selection of film and lenses is an aspect of cinematography and the selection made in T2 resulted in lower resolution than T1.

"The manner in which you dismiss it suggest strongly you just don't understand what it is."

^^^ Comical Irony Alert.

"An example of good cinematography is the scene when the Terminator jumps the Harley into the reservoir. The angles that it was shot at and the frame changes and timing of the transitions from frame to frame are all aspects of cinematography and T2 had many examples that were absolutely terrific such as this one."

That scene was ruined by it blatantly being a stunt double, so it doesn't matter how good you think the cinematography is, because seeing an obvious stunt double takes you out of the movie, i.e., it interrupts suspension of disbelief. Also, there's nothing to support the idea that the cinematography of that scene was anything special, aside from you liking the way it looked, which is merely an opinion. You can see comparable cinematography in most any episode of The Dukes of Hazzard, by the way.

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There is no CGI in T1, so how can the CGI in T2 be better than the [non-existent] CGI in T1?

There was no CGI but practical effects on top of drawn scenery. Like the scene when the exposed terminator is chasing Kyle and Sarah or certain parts of Kyle vs terminator. It is comical it looks so bad.

"However, to say that one movie has "better cinematography" than another, you have to be able to quantify it"

I did, I have an example. Other parts of it are like when the camera moves or zooms in. you can easily say one film is better than others. For example 'shaking cam' is bad cinematography because it draws attention to itself instead of presenting the desired image. That is an extreme contrast. T1 had good cinematography but t2 had great.

"Yes, it does."

The cinematography does not determine the media type the film is being presented on. cinematography is not if it is full screen or wide screen in presentation or how many pixels the file type supports. The Choice of camera would have an impact on the cinematography but for the life of me I don't know why you think the camera used for T1 is better. Maybe you can say the more faded colors of the camera recording add to the atmosphere of T1 but the actual camera of T2 definitely looks better (more natural).

"Selection of film and lenses is an aspect of cinematography and the selection made in T2 resulted in lower resolution than T1"

Is that accurate? I would have to look it up, how is it that T2 has a more natural appearance if it is lower resolution? Something sound off there.

"That scene was ruined by it blatantly being a stunt double"

This is called moving the goal posts. Doesn't matter you could see it was a stunt double.

"You can see comparable cinematography in most any episode of The Dukes of Hazzard, by the way."

Incorrect; the way it was shot in T2 such use of cuts to the next frame, the moving of the camera, and reserved use of slow motion all added to a cinematic marvel.

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"There was no CGI but practical effects on top of drawn scenery. Like the scene when the exposed terminator is chasing Kyle and Sarah or certain parts of Kyle vs terminator. It is comical it looks so bad."

You claimed that the CGI in T2 was better than in T1. You were wrong, obviously, given that there's no CGI in T1.

"I did, I have an example."

An example is not quantification. It's impossible to quantify because there are infinite variables with no fact-based value metric. You merely gave an opinion. There are over 150,000 frames in each movie. You can start by writing an analysis about each frame, stating which one has "better cinematography," and citing, e.g., the law of physics, the mathematical proof, or anything else concrete that supports your assertion for each frame. Good luck.

"you can easily say one film is better than others."

It's easy for anyone to make any assertion they want. Unfortunately for you, a mere assertion carries no weight whatsoever.

"The cinematography does not determine the media type the film is being presented on."

I didn't say it did. It does, however, determine the type of media the footage is captured on in the first place, and that has an impact on picture quality.

"cinematography is not if it is full screen or wide screen in presentation"

Is that a joke? You have to frame your shots differently depending on the intended aspect ratio, and framing is an aspect of cinematography, obviously.

"or how many pixels the file type supports."

Who said anything about pixels or file types? Film doesn't have pixels and is not a computer file of any kind. You are out of your depth here.

"The Choice of camera would have an impact on the cinematography but for the life of me I don't know why you think the camera used for T1 is better."

I didn't say anything about the type of camera. The lens choice and the intended aspect ratio are what resulted in T1 having more resolution than T2.

"Maybe you can say the more faded colors of the camera recording add to the atmosphere of T1 but the actual camera of T2 definitely looks better (more natural)."

You don't know what you're talking about. T1 did not have "more faded colors," it had excellent colors, and is one of the best-looking movies (in terms of picture quality) that I've ever seen. And again, the camera choice is irrelevant. As long as it's a good quality camera in good working order, they all do the same thing. It's the lens that actually focuses the light onto the film negative to expose an image. Also, because T2 was cropped all the way down to 2.35:1, it used less of each 35mm frame than T1 did, which was only cropped down to 1.85:1, which means T2 has less native resolution. Less resolution means less image detail. Had Cameron went with an anamorphic lens like most everyone else does for shooting 2.35:1 movies, it would have had more resolution than T1 (because an anamorphic lens "squeezes" the image to make it completely fill the film frame, giving you full 35mm resolution, i.e., nothing is cropped away), but he didn't.

"Is that accurate? I would have to look it up"

Of course it's accurate, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. And you're doing things backwards. You're supposed to know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

"how is it that T2 has a more natural appearance if it is lower resolution?"

It doesn't, not even close. T1 has amazing picture quality and T2 looks like ass in comparison. You've already admitted that you haven't seen the Blu-rays, which means you haven't seen the best available home presentations for either movie. T1 has more native resolution (because a 1.85:1 movie shot with a spherical lens uses more of each film frame than a 2.35:1 movie shot with a spherical lens does), which results in more image detail.

"This is called moving the goal posts."

No, it isn't. Part of cinematography is using framing and camera angles to help preserve the illusion that it's real, so as not to break suspension of disbelief. Do you think a scene can have good cinematography if you can see, e.g., a boom mic or other production equipment in the shot? Obviously not. The same goes for a shot where you can clearly see that it's a stunt double instead of the actual actor.

In T1, when the Terminator punched through the car's windshield, that was actually a custom-built pneumatic arm that punched through the windshield. In order to sell the illusion that the T1 was punching through the real windshield, they had to use a very specific camera angle, and that's an aspect of cinematography. Do you think it would have been good cinematography had they used a camera angle that showed that Arnold was just miming while a mechanical prop "punched" through the windshield?

"Doesn't matter you could see it was a stunt double."

Yes, it does. See above.

(continued below)

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"You claimed that the CGI in T2 was better than in T1. You were wrong, obviously, given that there's no CGI in T1."

Perhaps I chose my words poorly. I said: "The effect, both CGI and practical in T2 are better than T1" I meant that the use of effects as a whole are better in T2, augmented with using CGI. Perhaps I was one coma short in my sentence.. But dude, you know damn well what I meant and are just being a douche.

"An example is not quantification."

Of course it is. Examples provide a point of reference. That is part of quantification.

"You can start by writing an analysis..."

Wow, you are dedicated to being an asshole aren't we. I'll tell you what you do that yourself. I'll stick with being a rational human being that is comparing only 2 films and not all films.

"Is that a joke? You have to frame your shots differently depending on the intended aspect ratio, and framing is an aspect of cinematography, obviously."

Hey idiot, movies are not supposed to be shot in full screen. You were the one that brought up presentation when I was talking about the filming. You confuse the final product that you are watching with the aim of the filming. Those are not always the same.

"T1 did not have "more faded colors," it had excellent colors"

It purposely has more use of grey and darkness. This is intentional and adds to the atmosphere. I might have conceded the point that T1 had better cinematography because that was the affect they were going for but you are just outright denying reality. T2 has much more natural use of color and is basically perfect for an action film.

"you're supposed to know what you're talking about before you talk about it."

Actually I was trying to politely say you are full of crap. Even if you are right about the specification of the cameras used, it does not prove your point that cinematography is not quantifiable. that was a ridiculous assertion to start with.

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seeing a boom mic is not the same as being able to tell someone is a stunt double. That is a ridiculous comparison.

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"Perhaps I chose my words poorly."

Your concession is noted.

"Of course it is. Examples provide a point of reference. That is part of quantification."

No, it isn't. Quantification is putting something into numbers, dumbass. Why do you think it shares a root with the word "quantity"?

"Wow, you are dedicated to being an asshole aren't we. I'll tell you what you do that yourself. I'll stick with being a rational human being that is comparing only 2 films and not all films."

Your non sequitur is dismissed and your tacit concession on that matter is noted.

"Hey idiot"

Comical irony from the guy who established himself as an ultracrepidarian in the last post.

"movies are not supposed to be shot in full screen."

I'm not the one who brought up "fullscreen," dipshit; you are, due to your obvious reading deficiency. Also, you're not even correct. Many movies have been shot in "fullscreen;" it's known as the "academy ratio."

"You were the one that brought up presentation when I was talking about the filming."

No, I didn't, numbnuts.

"You confuse the final product that you are watching with the aim of the filming. Those are not always the same."

The final product is the only thing either of us have to go by, moron. You don't have access to the original negatives, nor even a theatrical film print, for either movie, and neither do I.

"It purposely has more use of grey and darkness. This is intentional and adds to the atmosphere. I might have conceded the point that T1 had better cinematography because that was the affect they were going for but you are just outright denying reality. T2 has much more natural use of color and is basically perfect for an action film."

You don't know what you're talking about. The color is perfectly natural in T1:

https://i.imgur.com/6B7kdNZ.jpg

As for darkness; here on Earth, the night is just as natural as the day, obviously. There was no artificial darkening of any scenes in T1. The dark scenes were simply shot at night.

"Actually I was trying to politely say you are full of crap."

That makes you look even more stupid.

"Even if you are right about the specification of the cameras used"

Again, simpleton: lenses and intended aspect ratio; not the specifications of the camera itself. This confirms that you are completely out of your depth here.

"it does not prove your point that cinematography is not quantifiable."

Is that a joke? My comments about lenses and intended aspect ratio as they relate to picture quality is a completely separate point than "cinematography is not quantifiable." The former wasn't intended to prove the latter, obviously. The latter is simply a fact, but feel free to try to quantify the entire art/science of cinematography into specific numbers/values. I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do it.

"that was a ridiculous assertion to start with."

Here's some quantification for you:

You + an idiot = 2 idiots.

See above, Slow Doug.

"seeing a boom mic is not the same as being able to tell someone is a stunt double."

Yes, it is. They both break the illusion / break suspension of disbelief, and for exactly the same reason.

"That is a ridiculous comparison."

You fail Analogies 101 forever.

"Seriously, you trying to say stuff from Dukes of Hazard is comparable to T2? Give me a break the cinematography in Dukes is cheesy as hell. And makes the fact they are jumping real cars look awful."

That shot I pointed out isn't just comparable to the motorcycle jump shot from T2, it's better. And I never said anything about the cinematography of the Dukes of Hazzard in general; I specified the cinematography of the car jumps/stunts, for which the camera crew back then was highly acclaimed. And since you can't look at those jumps and see the immense talent that went on behind the camera, your opinions on cinematography of any kind are laughable.

"And I don't know what I am talking about."

Exactly.

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You are a special type of stupid aren't you. One that purposefully uses words to obscure a point.

"Quantification is putting something into numbers, dumbass. Why do you think it shares a root with the word "quantity"?"

I had assumed you meant qualify not quantify. Since Film is an art form trying to quantify it would be impossible. I guess I over estimated your intelligence.

"Your non sequitur is dismissed"

As compared to your non sequitur's and ad hominems? perhaps I should just dismiss you completely. Which I am about to do.

"'m not the one who brought up "fullscreen," dipshit"

You're the dipshit that brought up the blu ray as an argument against the cinematography, completely ignoring cinematography has nothing to do with the medium the product is presented on. I was simply pointing out arguing about the medium was ridiculous so I used an example. Points of reference are important otherwise we would talk past each other. But since you are dense asshole that was unavoidable from the start.

" lenses and intended aspect ratio; not the specifications of the camera itself"

maybe I am when it comes to some of the technical jargin, but that does not mean that the film of T2 just flat out looks better and more natural (and perfect) for an action film. I am pretty sure nearly the entire world agrees with me, despite the ignorance of the technical aspects. So your point proved nothing. T2 looks better than T1. Deal with it asshole.

"Yes, it is. They both break the illusion / break suspension of disbelief, and for exactly the same reason."

No it is not, one is a technical error the other is the result of not being able to use an actual actor on a desired shot. They did the best the could and everything else about the shot is amazing and considered a film making iconic achievement.

"You fail Analogies 101 forever.'

I understand analogies, yours just sucked. See above. And also you fail Art of Argumentation 101 forever and a day.



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"I specified the cinematography of the car jumps/stunts, for which the camera crew back then was highly acclaimed"

The jumps and car stunts of Dukes had way too many frame changes and it ended up making the product look comical.

"Exactly."

Funny, I might not know what I am talking about. That is possible. But I am still more right than you. So what does that say?

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"You are a special type of stupid aren't you."

Comical Irony Alert: Part II

"One that purposefully uses words to obscure a point."

Your non sequitur is dismissed, simpleton.

"I had assumed you meant qualify not quantify."

Translation: you just now discovered that "quantify" doesn't mean "qualify" like you thought it did, you know, after I told you what it actually means.

"trying to quantify it would be impossible."

I already told you that, numbnuts, and that's why value judgments on cinematography, which has no inherent values, and can't be broken down into values, are subjective, i.e., mere opinion. Your concession is noted.

"I guess I over estimated your intelligence."

You just made a fool out of yourself (again), moron. LOL at your laughable attempt to save face.

"As compared to your non sequitur's and ad hominems? perhaps I should just dismiss you completely. Which I am about to do."

Given that I haven't presented any non sequiturs or ad hominems, this is yet another non sequitur from you. Consider it dismissed out of hand, of course.

"You're the dipshit"

Comical Irony Alert: Part III

"that brought up the blu ray as an argument against the cinematography, completely ignoring cinematography has nothing to do with the medium the product is presented on. I was simply pointing out arguing about the medium was ridiculous so I used an example."

Home video is the only way you can [legally] see the results of the cinematography at home, idiot. And Blu-ray is the closest we have to the original negatives. In terms of resolution, it's comparable to theatrical 35mm film prints, which is the medium people watched these movies on in theaters in 1984 and 1991.

"Points of reference are important otherwise we would talk past each other. But since you are dense asshole that was unavoidable from the start."

"Fullscreen" is an utter non sequitur. It has nothing to do with anything I said. Also:

Comical Irony Alert: Part IV

"maybe I am when it comes to some of the technical jargin,"

There's no "maybe" about it, which means you're not qualified to argue about this.

"but that does not mean that the film of T2 just flat out looks better and more natural (and perfect) for an action film."

You've never even seen the Blu-rays, dolt; so what are you going by exactly? Decades-old memories of seeing them in the theater? Low quality home video formats like VHS or DVD?

"I am pretty sure nearly the entire world agrees with me, despite the ignorance of the technical aspects."

Your argumentum ad populum fallacy is dismissed.

"So your point proved nothing."

False. It proves that T1 has more native resolution than T2, which translates to more image details. Both movies have natural color timing and were shot on film, so neither one looks more "natural" than the other. T1 isn't desaturated like you think it is. An example of a Terminator movie with desaturated, unnatural color timing is Terminator Salvation.

"T2 looks better than T1."

So says the dipshit who's never even seen the T1 and T2 Blu-rays.

"No it is not, one is a technical error the other is the result of not being able to use an actual actor on a desired shot."

The result of both is the same, dullard, i.e., it breaks the illusion. Also, they are both technical errors. Boom mics and other production equipment are required, but it's someone's job to make sure they don't end up in the shot. Likewise, when stunt doubles are required, it's someone's job to make sure that the audience can't tell that it's a stunt man. This is usually a combined effort from the casting, wardrobe, and makeup department (i.e., making sure the stunt double looks as close as possible to the actor he's doubling for) and the cinematographer, who needs to make sure that the angles and framing of the shot don't reveal that it's a stunt double.

"I understand analogies, yours just sucked. See above."

You've already established that you don't understand analogies, Slow Doug.

"And also you fail Art of Argumentation 101 forever and a day."

Your non sequitur is dismissed, and also, monkey see, monkey do.

"The jumps and car stunts of Dukes had way too many frame changes and it ended up making the product look comical."

You don't have a clue about what you're talking about of course. The second-unit camera crew on TDoH was legendary, and the stunts themselves were spectacular as well, some of them setting real-life world records at the time, and having lasting influence on the field of TV/movie car stunts in general (such as their invention of the suspension harness). It was the first production in history that focused so heavily on car stunts, and over the course of the show's run, they got extremely good at doing them and filming them.

"Funny, I might not know what I am talking about."

There's no "might" about it. You are utterly clueless.

"But I am still more right than you. So what does that say?"

What does your laughably false assertion say? Nothing of value, obviously.

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how in the hell do you get around the character limit?

in response to your statement here:

"Given that I haven't presented any non sequiturs or ad hominems"

I will now quote everyone one of you ad hominems and non sequiturs:

""cinematography" is a nebulous concept" Non sequitur the discussion was on which film between T1 and T2 'looked' better. Not a general discussion of cinematography as a concept. Idiot. Right here you lost before we even started.

"There is no CGI in T1" - Another non sequitur, i was talking about effects as a whole and not specifically CGI. Idiot.

" Comical Irony Alert" - THis is a non sequitur everytime you use it, which I think is 4 times now.

"ruined by it blatantly being a stunt double" Nothing to do with cinematography despite your protest, another non sequitur.

"You can see comparable cinematography in most any episode of The Dukes of Hazzard" - bringing up any other show or film when comparing 2 specific films is a non sequitur, idiot.

"You can start by writing an analysis about each frame, stating which one has "better cinematography," and citing, e.g., the law of physics, the mathematical proof, or anything else concrete that supports your assertion for each frame." -This entire rant was a non sequitur that was never prompted for, I was comparing the 'look' of 2 films not all films, idiot.

"You don't know what you're talking about."

"dumbass."

"No, I didn't, numbnuts.

"That makes you look even more stupid."

"You + an idiot = 2 idiots."

"You fail Analogies 101 forever."

"Your non sequitur is dismissed, simpleton."

"Translation: you just now discovered that "quantify" doesn't mean "qualify" like you thought it did" - this is bullshit and you know it. but you are just being an ass hole.

"I already told you that, numbnuts"

"I already told you that, numbnuts,"

"You've already established that you don't understand analogies, Slow Doug."

out of space. But the summary is you don't understand sophistry.



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"I will now quote everyone one of you ad hominems and non sequiturs:"

No, you won't. I already told you that I haven't presented any non sequiturs or ad hominems, dumbass.

"""cinematography" is a nebulous concept" Non sequitur the discussion was on which film between T1 and T2 'looked' better. Not a general discussion of cinematography as a concept."

^^^ Dipshit Alert

The whole sentence was:

"Saying that a movie has 'superior cinematography' to another movie is meaningless, because 'cinematography' is a nebulous concept."

My statement followed from and directly addressed (i.e., refuted) your claim that T2 has "superior cinematography" to T1, which means it's not a non sequitur, obviously. Ironically, your claim that it was a non sequitur is a non sequitur.

""There is no CGI in T1" - Another non sequitur, i was talking about effects as a whole and not specifically CGI."

Once again, you claimed that the CGI in T2 was better than in T1. You were wrong, obviously, given that there's no CGI in T1. You already conceded that, idiot, when you said, "Perhaps I chose my words poorly." A statement that refutes a previous statement isn't a non sequitur, obviously.

"Idiot."

Comical Irony Alert: Part V

"" Comical Irony Alert" - THis is a non sequitur everytime you use it, which I think is 4 times now."

Any time an established idiot calls anyone else, e.g., an idiot, it's ironic, and since I find it funny, it's comically ironic.

""ruined by it blatantly being a stunt double" Nothing to do with cinematography despite your protest, another non sequitur."

Already refuted, therefore your non sequitur is dismissed.

""You can see comparable cinematography in most any episode of The Dukes of Hazzard" - bringing up any other show or film when comparing 2 specific films is a non sequitur,"

No, moron. Since you claimed that the cinematography of the motorcycle jump in T2 was something special, it's relevant to point out that it isn't, because vehicle stunts with comparable (and superior) cinematography were done years before on a routine basis in a comparatively low-budget production.

""You can start by writing an analysis about each frame, stating which one has "better cinematography," and citing, e.g., the law of physics, the mathematical proof, or anything else concrete that supports your assertion for each frame." -This entire rant was a non sequitur that was never prompted for, I was comparing the 'look' of 2 films not all films, idiot."

Ironically, this is yet another non sequitur from you. I never said anything about "all films," clodpate. I suggested that you can start by writing an analysis about each of the 150,000+ frames in T1 and T2.

As for your following list of quotations that you posted without addressing any of them, those are some more non sequiturs from you. Consider them dismissed out of hand.

"this is bullshit and you know it. but you are just being an ass hole."

No, it isn't bullshit. You repeatedly replied as if I'd typed "qualify" instead of "quantify," and then when I finally posted the definition of "quantify," you did a laughable attempt at saving face by claiming you thought I meant "qualify." LOL at that, and LOL at you too, you know, while I'm at it. Had I meant "qualify" I would have typed "qualify," obviously.

"But the summary is you don't understand sophistry."

More comical irony, coming from Captain Non Sequitur, as well as the guy who presented an argumentum ad populum fallacy. This is yet another non sequitur from you of course. Consider it dismissed.

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You are by far a bigger idiot than nearly anyone I have had a conversation with, and twice as much an asshole as I am which is goddamn impressive.

Just because you try to dismiss it and dismiss you use of sophistry does not make it so. You are an idiot and dishonest to boot. And you can go fuck yourself with your "Comical Irony Alert: Part V" bullshit. This is a meaningless non-argument and nothing more that an ad hominem or an attack on a character. LOOK UP SOME FUCKING DEFINITION BEFORE YOU COMMENT YOU WASTE HUMAN LIFE. Now kindly go fuck yourself and never speak to me again.

Learn how to carry a conversation and an argument without fallacious arguments and get over your pathetic arrogance and being impressed with yourself. No one else is on this planet is impressed with you, so why should you be.

you were wrong on nearly every point and the only point you got 'somewhat' write was because I choose some words poorly.

"Once again, you claimed that the CGI in T2 was better than in T1"

No you fucking idiot, I was not claiming CGI was better in T2 than T1, I was saying the effects as a whole were better, I just choose my word order poorly which is what I conceded. Fucking prick.

I now dismiss you entirely. You have proved nothing except you are an asshole not worth conversing with. Anyone that reads this will see that. there is no catharsis, you have not grown and I have learned nothing. It was all a waste of time because you just can't get over yourself and like to try to belittle people to prove you superiority on a movie discussion board, which is fucking pathetic. No welcome to my ignore list. You should delete yourself from this board and the internet until you grow up and learn how to have a CIVIL disagreement. Now piss off you pathetic little wanker.

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"You are by far a bigger idiot than nearly anyone I have had a conversation with"

More comical irony from the buffoon who's lost every single point he's tried to argue so far.

"You should delete yourself from this board and the internet until you grow up and learn how to have a CIVIL disagreement."

You're the one who was uncivil first, dipshit. By the way, an ad hominem fallacy is when someone responds to an argument with an insult in place of an argument. An insult in addition to an argument is not an ad hominem fallacy.

In any case, your entire post is a non sequitur, which isn't an argument. Since you have no further arguments, your tacit concession on the whole matter is noted. Also, your resignation from the argument...

"No welcome to my ignore list."

... is accepted.

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"Incorrect"

How do you know? When was the last time you watched the original Dukes of Hazzard TV series? The first jump that you see in the title sequence...

https://youtu.be/md_rVr0l6Rk

... is more impressive than the motorcycle jump in T2, since there's more panning involved. They panned that shot perfectly, and the camera angle and how close the car is to the camera are perfect. You see the whole car coming into the frame from the right-hand side of the screen; as it passes by you it just about fills the whole screen, giving it a big screen presence, and then as it lands on the left-hand side of the screen you see the whole car again, from an awesome quartering-away angle. On top of that, you can't see that it's a stunt driver instead of "Bo Duke" in the driver's seat, and they did that jump for real, unlike in T2 where the motorcycle was partially suspended by wires, making it appear to defy the laws of physics.

"the way it was shot in T2 such use of cuts to the next frame, the moving of the camera, and reserved use of slow motion all added to a cinematic marvel."

Even if the stunt man hadn't been clearly visible, there was nothing remarkable about the motorcycle jump scene in T2. Also, cuts are an aspect of editing, not cinematography.

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Seriously, you trying to say stuff from Dukes of Hazard is comparable to T2? Give me a break the cinematography in Dukes is cheesy as hell. And makes the fact they are jumping real cars look awful.

And I don't know what I am talking about. sure. Have a nice day. now imagine a smiley face with a middle finger next to it.

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I think T2 is really good. Great complement to T1. Far better than any of the ones that followed it.

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I don't understand why people say this is better than part 1 at all.
Is anyone saying that?

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Yes, most people are saying that, including the IMDB rating. T1 was good for its time but the special effects seriously outdate is. Hard to watch when you can't even take the effects seriously.

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T2 was great summer entertainment. Although not as great as T1 it was James Cameron returning to the top of his game. I remember The Abyss coming out just two years earlier and that was pretty boring. I also thought the Gun's N' Roses tie-in song/music video made T2 even more enjoyable.

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