MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979) Discussion > Always don't get this part... after the ...

Always don't get this part... after the transporter accident...


STTMP - is the Biggest and Best of all the Star Trek movies period. The part that always bothers is after a terrible transporter accident, of course the next passenger would be wary and may refuse to get on the pad.

This is of course is McCoy's wonderful moment and a nod to fans (McCoy, a long time hater of the transporter from the original series), but anybody including McCoy would refuse to transport which in my opinion always detracts from this. Is it even funnier and more dangerous that it is McCoy after the accident?

Also, where do you stand on the long standing debate philosophical debate- do transporters clone/kill everyone on each transport cycle and are we all watching re-assembled facsimiles of everyone episode to episode?

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Also, where do you stand on the long standing debate philosophical debate- do transporters clone/kill everyone on each transport cycle and are we all watching re-assembled facsimiles of everyone episode to episode?


In 1966, the transporter was described as transforming solid matter molecules into energy and then transported *that* energy to a remote place and reassembled them back into the (hopefully) original item/person. We are to believe that the molecules themselves are getting moved..

Under close scrutiny decades later, it doesn't seem at all possible to do anything more than to scan an item and reprint a clone of it somewhere else, so that's where the argument comes from. But like Superman flying, we have to accept that something beyond our understanding of physics is happening and that the transporter is not building facsimiles of everyone.

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As Geordi pointed out to Barclay it has been statistically proven that transporters are the safest way to travel.

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I would be thinking so, if you could only do from Transport Platform to another and potentially only one by one. But it is shown that you can beam anywhere, so I never thought of it as a clone/kill. The Replicator basically transform mass during beaming, that's why it is always enclosed. That is my head canon.

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That's one of the things that always sort of bothered me about the series. No one ever seemed to consider the enormous philosophical and spiritual implications of the device: that when you use the transporter, you are killed, and what emerges at the other end of the process is a transporter clone. Honestly, I think the idea would have presented enormous opportunity for dramatic storytelling.

As we all know, the transporter was a budgetary concession to the reality that the TV show simply couldn't afford to pay for the special effects shots that would have been needed, showing the Enterprise or one of its shuttlecraft landing on a planet's surface every episode. The transporter effect was very cheap by comparison.

I think in the context of the movie, and the transporter accident depicted, we're supposed to take McCoy's reluctance as both an affectionate homage to his dislike of transporters that we saw in the series, and as charmingly irrational for this milieu: that given how mature a technology transporters are by this period in the Star Trek universe, basically his reaction is supposed to be like it would be for us today, refusing to get on a plane because an earlier flight crashed. We know that accidents like that are anomalies, that flying is statistically the safest mode of travel, and if the engineers say they found and repaired the fault that caused that earlier crash, then the problem's fixed, now stop being a nervous Nelly and get aboard.

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"...flying is statistically the safest mode of travel..."

Tell that to 200 helpless people who are about the hit the ground at 500 mph, who know that in a few seconds their bodies will be torn to pieces, crushed, burned, and the chunks scattered across the landscape.

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That's why I said statistically. And it's simply irrefutable. Far fewer flyers die in crashes than people traveling by any other mode of transport -- both in absolute terms, and on a per-capita basis. As has so often been observed, the most dangerous part of your airplane trip is your drive to and from the airport. You are orders of magnitude more likely to die in a car crash than an airplane crash.

The key difference is, when you are killed in a car crash, you are just one person (and maybe one or two or three others who went out with you in the same accident) -- and moreover, you're just one of over a hundred thousand of such deaths each year -- whereas in a plane crash, you are in a headline-grabbing event that took out hundreds at once.

Yeah, accidents happen. Every person who ever died in a plane crash drew a really bad hand. The odds were actually in their favor, and they still lost. That's life. No one ever said it was fair.

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When you use the transporter, you are killed, and what emerges at the other end of the process is a transporter clone. Honestly, I think the idea would have presented enormous opportunity for dramatic storytelling.

Sounds like the key plot point in The Prestige.

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Great answer! I agree with you, but I still find this moment not well thought out.


On killing/cloning... I think the Original Series addressed this, Plato's Stepchildren - Kirk says matter and energy are now interchangeable. Meaning there is no killing.

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That's more of a handwave, not an explanation. And that doesn't mean it's correct. Star Trek is stuffed with many things that are contrary to reality. For example: not so much in TOS, but in TNG, Roddenberry had become unrealistically utopian in his views. The show sucked during its first two seasons because he forbade interpersonal conflict between any of the main characters -- he felt that humanity would have evolved beyond that by the 24th century. This is nonsense. Human nature hasn't changed for tens of thousands of years; that's not going to suddenly about face in a mere couple of centuries, and the idea that advanced technology and lack of resource scarcity will change it is equally nonsense -- that's called technological determinism, and it's founded on the idea that merely having enough makes you inherently good, or rather, leaves your inherent goodness uncorrupted and uncompromised by poverty and want. Well, if that's so, explain greedy, exploiting robber-barons, or third-world dictators, who are evil and oppressive, despite their vast wealth.

Roddenberry wasn't so unrealistic when he was working on TOS in the 60s. Personally, I've always suspected the change in his outlook was a result of spending the 70s and 80s attending conventions, and listening to legions of adoring fans telling him what an elightened visionary he was -- it simply went to his head. So the 24th century Federation is socialism that somehow works. This time. After hundreds of failed attempts in scores of different countries throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.

In fiction, you can dismiss certain things by virtue of a thing called writer's fiat. As I said, that's a handwave, not a reasonable argument.

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No, the transporter isn't killing and re-assembling anyone no more than your own body does.

The human body replaces its own cells regularly. Each human being sheds 330 billion cells which are replaced daily, equivalent to about 1 percent of all our cells. In 80-100 days, 30 trillion cells will have replenished—the equivalent of a new you.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/our-bodies-replace-billions-of-cells-every-day/

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Regardless of the philosophical and scientific questions, the reason why the Transporter exists is: The makers of the Original Series didn't want to have to do the extra Visual Effects shots of a shuttle craft going down to a planet and back again every episode. The Transporter solved that issue.

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According to laws of universe matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed and total amount is fixed in the universe and they can be converted from one form to another only or energy to matter

So when transporting molecules and atoms and quarks and everything within is converted to energy and reconstituted back into the original matter. So you're the same you just transported through space and time faster.

The transporter is not making a copy of you because to make a copy you'd need to convert your matter to energy and then dispose of that matter and transport that energy to point B and use molecules there to reconstitute you back but that's an issue if molecules and atoms etc there aren't available.

So it takes you, makes it energy, sends it across and reconstitutes that same energy back to the original matter

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I will accept that Fani! thank you so much :)

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