MovieChat Forums > Donald Trump Discussion > The 'collusion' debate ended yesterday. ...

The 'collusion' debate ended yesterday. We now know as a fact the Trump campaign colluded with Russia.


The accidental redaction error in the Manafort legal filing combined with the news published mid-evening by The New York Times is the biggest revelation in more than two years. It’s bigger than the Trump Tower meeting in June 2016, though the two cases can’t be fully understood without reference to each other. These new revelations combined with earlier reports effectively end the debate about whether there was ‘collusion’ between Russia and the Trump campaign during the 2016 election. There was. It wasn’t marginal. It was happening at the very top of the campaign. The campaign manager was secretly funneling campaign data and information to a Russian oligarch closely tied to Russian President Vladimir Putin, someone who had no possible use for such information other than to use it in the Russian efforts to get Donald Trump elected President.

Lets review key details.

According to the Manafort court filing, the Special Counsel’s Office charged that Manafort had lied about sharing “polling data” about the 2016 campaign with his former Ukrainian deputy Konstantin Kilimnik, a man who US intelligence has ID'd as Russian intelligence. Given that Manafort had also told Kilimnik to offer briefings on the campaign to Russian oligarch Oleg V. Deripaska, it was a reasonable surmise that handing over the polling data was meant for Deripaska as well.

Here are the two crucial paragraphs (emphasis mine).

"Both Mr. Manafort and Rick Gates, the deputy campaign manager, transferred the data to Mr. Kilimnik in the spring of 2016 as Mr. Trump clinched the Republican presidential nomination, according to a person knowledgeable about the situation. Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person.

Mr. Manafort asked Mr. Gates to tell Mr. Kilimnik to pass the data to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch who is close to the Kremlin and who has claimed that Mr. Manafort owed him money from a failed business venture, the person said. It is unclear whether Mr. Manafort was acting at the campaign’s behest or independently, trying to gain favor with someone to whom he was deeply in debt."

This is all crystal clear. We’re not talking about vague conversations in which quid pro quos or campaign cooperation could have happened. It did happen. Manafort concedes passing on the campaign data in the court filing by his lawyers that they accidentally failed to properly redact. The Times confirms that the data came with the explicit instructions to pass it onto Russian oligarchs.

But none of this can be fully understood without murkier but now quite significant information first reported more than a year ago. Signals intercepts from mid-2016 about Manafort allegedly working with Russian intelligence to help the Trump campaign was one of the key factors that kicked off the investigation during the election. This goes back to the very beginning. Here’s a key paragraph from an August 2017 report from CNN:

"CNN has learned that investigators became more suspicious when they turned up intercepted communications that US intelligence agencies collected among suspected Russian operatives discussing their efforts to work with Manafort, who served as campaign chairman for three months, to coordinate information that could damage Hillary Clinton’s election prospects, the US officials say. The suspected operatives relayed what they claimed were conversations with Manafort, encouraging help from the Russians."

This is damning. We now have clear cut evidence from the other side that Manafort was doing precisely what was claimed: passing on confidential campaign data to a high-level Russian oligarch who Manafort knew from long experience was closely tied to Putin and the Russian intelligence services. There’s no longer any question about whether there was collusion. There was.

There's some speculation that this information could have been what Russian intelligence used to guide its campaign in the second half of 2016. We don’t know that yet. More importantly, we don’t need to know that. What is relevant is intent and action, not effectiveness.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/politics/manafort-trump-campaign-data-kilimnik.html

The only question remaining is what Trump knew and when he knew it.

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Trump is so out of touch with reality, it's hard to say how much he knew.

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Lol are you guys still going on about Russia?

to coordinate information that could damage Hillary Clinton’s election prospects,
Translation: how dare Trump take her throne?

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Wow, you sold that soul of yours CHEAP, son!

What happened to "There was NO collusion!"? He said it enough times. Are you going to say he's honest? Reliable? Trustworthy? Even after THAT?

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What happened to "There was NO collusion!"? He said it enough times. Are you going to say he's honest? Reliable? Trustworthy? Even after THAT?
In May 2015, Bill Clinton called Trump and encouraged him to run for President. In July 2015, Democrats said in an email they wanted to "maximize" Trump's chances. Why?

Lol Hillary Clinton had a 98% chance to win right?

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In July 2015, Democrats said in an email they wanted to "maximize" Trump's chances. Why?

Irrelevant whataboutism.

Anything to defend Trump, the white (and self-admitted) "Nationalist."

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Irrelevant whataboutism.
Nice dodge haha. The Democrats literally promoted Trump's campaign. Why did they do that?

Why were the Democrats so confident they were going to win in November 2016? Why did Obama go on the Jimmy Kimmel show and tell Trump "At least I will go down as a President!"?

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Why are you so afraid of the truth?

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That isn't an answer at all is it?

And you know why the Democrats would want to maximize Trumps chances? To have their candidate go up against a bloated buffoon who appeals to the mentally unhinged.



Like you.

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And you know why the Democrats would want to maximize Trumps chances?
Collusion with Russia.

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Your assertion of Democrats colluding with Russia never made any sense the first time you made it. It doesn't make any more sense now.

Repeating nonsense gibberish over and over again isn't going to do you any good.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bill-clinton-called-donald-trump-ahead-of-republicans-2016-launch/2015/08/05/e2b30bb8-3ae3-11e5-b3ac-8a79bc44e5e2_story.html?utm_term=.7aefc08771d9

An aide representing Clinton said the call occurred, but it was a casual chat, and not about the 2016 election.

And where are you getting the this part:

In July 2015, Democrats said in an email they wanted to "maximize" Trump's chances. Why?


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An aide representing Clinton said the call occurred, but it was a casual chat, and not about the 2016 election.
Of course it was about the election. Why else would Bill call Trump a month before he announced his candidacy?

Why else do you think the Democrats were so giddy when Trump dominated the polls and won the nomination? They never expected to lose.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1120 - The Democrats want the media to promote Trump's campaign was a "pied piper" candidate

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/10348 - How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?

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I'm sorry...I meant a legitimate news source. Not some website that literally has "leaks" (Hey...THAT'S why Trump loved them! He thought it was about the pee-pee!) in their name.

My God, you are such a loser.

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I'm sorry...I meant a legitimate news source. Not some website that literally has "leaks" (Hey...THAT'S why Trump loved them! He thought it was about the pee-pee!) in their name.
Obama to Trump October 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1NGWM8gP8

"At least I will go down as President."

Also lol @ the Obama quote in the beginning, he keeps harping out how elections can't be rigged or hacked. Haha when Democrats thought they were going to win they kept saying the elections were fair and everything.

It's hilarious!

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What's your point?

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And wasn't Trump a donor to the Clinton Foundation? Something like 100,000.00? Seems like YOUR scenario is much more likely (that Clinton would schmooze with a famous donor with a casual call) than onlyfactsmatter and his James Bond Villain plot.....


But, see....facts don't really matter to him. Only orange game show hosts.



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And wasn't Trump a donor to the Clinton Foundation? Something like 100,000.00?
Speaking of the Clinton Foundation, how is it doing now? With all the free time the Clintons have now, I assume that the Foundation is breaking donation records and still getting huge donations from foreign countries, right?

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Answer an actual point instead of deflecting.

You're as obvious as you are obtuse. You'd think you'd be smarter with all the schooling you get on here.


Oh....and it's doing better than the Trump Foundation/Slush Fund.

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So, why did the Democrats collude with Russia to get elected? Gonna answer that one for me?

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Show me an actual link to that deflection from a reputable source.


We now know Trumps people did and yet you never answer THAT (the point of the thread before you try deflecting like a bargain basement Wonder Woman). You really don't get the right to demand answers until you provide some.

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https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428 (this is actually a really good article)

Clinton strategists' initial reaction to Trump’s blaze through the primaries at the time was giddy disbelief, but back in New York the anti-Trump plan and machinery was still barely begun.
Why were they so happy a Russian operative won the GOP's Presidential nomination?

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Again, if she had run a SMART campaign, she should have run away with it. He's a racist, moronic, game show host who is a Presidential as you are respectable (not at all).

Now....answer the actual point of the thread about TRUMP and HIS collusion. No deflecting. Try and be a big boy.

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You know the saddest part of this? While Onlyfactsmatter may very well be a sock account of one of the morons in here, he also very well could be legit and mean everything he's saying because I've seen legions of Trumpers both on and offline spouting the same nonsense this guy does. These whack-jobs actually believe this garbage.

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I think he's very aware of the game of deflection he's playing.

That's what makes his desperation all the more enjoyable to watch. I find it amusing.

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I know. Literally every sentence--hell, every WORD--he writes sounds mind-numbingly retarded.

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Translation: how dare Trump take her throne?

Translation: ANYTHING to defend Trump, the white (and self-admitted) "Nationalist."

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Translation: ANYTHING to defend Trump, the white (and self-admitted) "Nationalist."
Hillary Clinton is the white nationalist because unlike Trump, she actually lives in a town that is 95% white (Chappaqua).

Also, when Mitt Romney said Russia was our number 1 geopolitical foe in 2012, how did you respond?

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Trump lived in a TOWER named after him on fifth Avenue in Midtown Manhattan. He is the WHITEST (with an orange tint) Nationalist by your infantile standards, you club-footed baboon.

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Trump lived in a TOWER named after him on fifth Avenue in Midtown Manhattan. He is the WHITEST (with an orange tint) Nationalist by your infantile standards, you club-footed baboon.
Now his current residence is literally named White hahahahaha.

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Which should make racists like you and he VERY happy.

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Actually not really, I think Trump is kind of a dunce lol.

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So.....you are jealous that he's smarter than you?


i mean....you didn't even refute that I called you a racist! How stupid ARE you?

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If I were President, I would have:

- Focused on an infrastructure bill
- Build the wall and deport illegals
- End all foreign wars

Some harder things I'd try:

- Obamacare repeal and replace
- Balance the budget

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No if you were President, you would have:

- been assassinated.

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It's typical of Communists to want to murder the opposition. I thought liberals were against the death penalty? Lol

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I'm not a liberal, you buffoon. I was a Republican when being one meant something up until a game show host became the face of the party.

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I hear that a lot, I very much doubt someone as left as you was a Republican.

But I will entertain you: everything you said about Trump, they said about Romney. Democrats called Romney a racist/sexist/xenophobe/murderer/etc. etc.

Do you think Romney was a racist? After the election, the NY Times wrote an article saying Romney was "President of White America."

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To a liberal, Romney probably looks like a racist.

Compared to Trump? Romney is the most color blind person on the planet.


But his racism is the topic of a lot of other threads. This is about the collusion. Involving Trump. Stop dancing around it, Ginger Rogers.

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To a liberal, Romney probably looks like a racist.
Exactly! You liberals call anyone to the right of Lenin a racist. It's why I just roll my eyes now. Romney was a racist, Palin was a racist, Bush was a racist, Reagan was a racist, etc. etc.

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Only when it's blatant. Trump is calling the immigration situation a national emergency when Flint has no water for crying out loud.

The TSA situation and National Parks situation is bigger than the immigration problem and Trump is the direct cause of those.

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As usual, you lie. No one thinks Romney is a racist. He might be a little insular from being Mormon, but Mormons are typically good people, not racist.

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All just more hot air from you...a moron who will do anything to avoid answering the actual question put to you.

Such an immature uncle you are...

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So you were a cuckservative until we got a president with a dick?

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No I was a real Republican until the GOP started catering to the mouth breathing, NASCAR loving, knuckle dragging, racist, Cracker Barrel crowd and nominated a bloated, lying game show host to represent the party.

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I thought you said you'd tap that now.

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Thats fake news

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I was a conservative before they started catering to conservatives i swear.

In the real world however all my libbie friends growing up who used to gang up on me for my beliefs are now wondering what the hell they were ever thinking but do i get an apology? Hell no they just act like they always thought like me

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"No Collusion" will soon go down in history with "Mexico will pay for the wall! Mark my words".

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Trump will probably just blame it all on manafort and get away with it. At least Nixon had some integrity that his campaign was at fault. Trump doesn't have an ounce of it.

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Notice how Trump has not once ever criticized Manafort publicly, unlike Cohen. I think he doesn't dare because he knows Manafort could bury him on the collusion angle.

It was reported in the press a year ago he told friends he was safe so long as Manafort didn't flip and sell him out. Well, it's true so far Manafort appears not to have flipped even though he initially pretended like he was cooperating with Mueller. My guess is because he's worried about more than just Trump if he did flip. There's no other reasonable way to explain why he'd intentionally mislead Mueller when the only thing that does for him is guarantee he will die in prison.

But Manafort's right hand man Rick Gates is fully cooperating with Mueller and is directly knowledgeable of all the incriminating evidence implicating both his former boss and Trump's knowledge of events. He's almost certainly the Times primary source on this. Much will ride on the strength of the incriminating evidence that Trump knew which Mueller almost certainly has by way of Rick Gates.

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