Great actor! why the hell didnt he make it bigger? - Michael Biehn Discussion

[–] alexjohans0n (2094) 2 years ago

Heroin

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His characters died in pretty much every box-office hit he featured in, primarily because he rarely played the lead

Although, he's been great in some lower-budgetted stuff like 'TIMEBOMB' (1991) and 'THE DIVIDE' (2011)

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[–] MillerJones (470) 5 months ago

He didn't want to be a big star.

I suggest you listen to him speak.

Michael Rosenbaum had him on "Inside of you" twice check it out.

Some people just want to act & are not cut out for stardom as such.

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[–] Rocky15 (505) 4 days ago

He was brilliant in The Abyss, honestly feel he deserved an Oscar nomination for that role

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[–] Tam87 (289) 3 days ago

He definitely did. Him and Ed Harris owned that film.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 3 days ago

Agreed Biehn kind of steels that film. I always thought Cameron made an error in that film though. Abyss was not a huge suc I think Cameron should have reversed those roles. Made Biehn the lead and Harris the antagonist. Harris is a great actor but making him the lead in a blockbuster like that always seemed slightly off.

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[–] Tam87 (289) 3 days ago

I think the Abyss underperformed due to audiences expecting another Cameron actioner. Every movie poster and trailer emphasized "from the maker of terminator and aliens" to the point where I think audiences expected a shoot em up underwater, but got a more character driven aquatic adventure instead. That would've effected word of mouth/re-viewings.

As for swapping Harris and Biehn, maybe that would've changed things. Harris is a fantastic actor, very intense.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 3 days ago

Agreed.. again LOL. This is getting ridiculous with you Tam87. I can tell you are a huge film lover. I think Abyss was marketed poorly. Its not action and its not horror. Basically a sci fi drama which is a difficult thing to market. Cameron been getting brought up a lot lately so Ive mentioned this the last couple days. Basically the Abyss IMO was Camerons most original film and his passion project. I think after it didnt resonate Cameron was a bit demoralized and just committed to staying comercial which is a shame. He basically became more committed to his ocean adventures and used film to fund that. To me he peaked as a filmaker with Abyss even with its flaws which are fairly minor in terms of story. Ive always liked the film since seeing it in the theatre and I was only 13 but I got it.

I think people expected an intense monster movie set underwater and Cameron gave them a kind of Close Encounters of the Third Kind character driven drama. Might have been better if he would have put out a couple more films first to get more established before taking such a leap but its always easy to critique looking back. Had Cameron made the Abyss after the success of something like say Titanic I think it would have been a hit. Maybe timing was the biggest problem.

No question about Harris. Fine actor. I think he gave a perfect performance in the film hes just not someone people tend to rush to go see in the theatre back then. I may have needed a superstar or at least upcoming superstar to work. Ive said it before Bruce Willis would have made that film a monster hit. One year after Die Hard. Like I said though its easy looking back. I dont think we ever got another bold attempt from Cameron like his first 3 films. Crowds favorites and commercial successes but nothing really with that kind of impact. IMO Abyss with be more appreciated as time goes on into the future similar to Carpenters "The Thing" and other films that were ahead of their time.

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[–] Tam87 (289) 2 days ago

think after it didnt resonate Cameron was a bit demoralized and just committed to staying comercial which is a shame. He basically became more committed to his ocean adventures and used film to fund that. To me he peaked as a filmaker with Abyss even with its flaws which are fairly minor in terms of story.

Exactly. He went back to his bread and butter with T2 & True Lies after its failure. Abyss had a great love story in it as well, a more convincing one than Cameron wrote for Titanic.

What I always remember about The Abyss is how great the DVD was. The menu screens, the documentaries about how they filmed it in an abandoned nuclear reactor plant - watching how they made it was more entertaining than the film itself haha.

I think people expected an intense monster movie set underwater

So did the movie studios lol. They forced Cameron to cut a huge chunk out, which is put back in for the 1992 re-release and the dvd. No doubt they were worried it was too slow for a summer movie.

IMO Abyss with be more appreciated as time goes on.

It seems to be going that way. Abyss was way too good to be seen as a failure. The amount of effort that went into creating it was immense, you will never see that dedication again.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 2 days ago

LOL.. Thats the DVD I still have. Yes its great. I never fell into this mode of dump all your DVDs for streaming. Just between me and you we still have VHS tapes of some films as well and yes we watch them. They still work just fine.... shhhhh its a secret LOL.

Yes Abyss is basically a love story. Basically starts that way and ends that way. I guess Terminator is also a love story but IMO the Abyss is written better. Kudos to Harris and Mastrantonio making that work so well. Im not even going to give my thoughts on Titanic because people tend to freak out and get triggered. I also wasnt impressed much with true lies. I actually think Last Action Hero is a far better film and Cameron fans have a meltdown over that notion.

Seems like the last few year Abyss has gained more of a following. I think people miss the more serious tone of Cameron and Abyss is a very thoughtful and mature film. "IF" they ever decide to try and bring it back I think it would be better suited for a series ... HOWEVER.. I dont see the point if they are just going to ruin it. The Characters in the Abyss were all likeable even Biehn who is technically a villain but in reality hes not. Its a unique film and hard to classify. Kind of like De Palma and Mission to Mars which I also think is an underrated and overlooked film that failed at the time of release. The Abyss was better IMO though.

Although.. the way film is going its questionable people will even watch these sorts of movies 10-15 years from now. I could see there being cliff notes versions of film similar to books where people never actually watch them in their entirety let alone try to analyze the meaning. Things are heading south faster than I thought possible. I still buy the DVDs or record to have a copy but its mostly older stuff. DVDs in envelopes are thin and dont take up any room.

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[–] Tam87 (289) a day ago

I never fell into this mode of dump all your DVDs for streaming. Just between me and you we still have VHS tapes of some films as well and yes we watch them

Every real movie fan should have a dvd/bly ray collection. If you don't, you're a philistine haha.

I guess Terminator is also a love story but IMO the Abyss is written better. Kudos to Harris and Mastrantonio making that work so well.

True, that's down to The Abyss having a lot more time to develop its characters, especially in the extended cut. Terminator's love story develops with the action which is cool, you see Sarah growing closer to Reese with each scene.

A better comparison would be the love story in The Abyss versus the one in Titanic. I didn't like the Titanic one, but maybe that's because I think DiCaprio and Winslet are mediocre actors and Cameron gave them a juvenile script? The Abyss by comparison feels epic, like Cameron really thought it'd win him oscars.

Although.. the way film is going its questionable people will even watch these sorts of movies 10-15 years from now. I could see there being cliff notes versions of film similar to books where people never actually watch them in their entirety let alone try to analyze the meaning

That's a great, lol. I'm not sure either.

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[–] Melton (2686) a day ago

There’s a brand new 4K UHD and Blu-ray of The Abyss so you can chuck your non-anamorphic DVD now.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) a day ago

LOL nah its fine. We watch stuff like this on a projector so it doesnt make that much difference. As long as I can follow the story and see whats going on Im fine. Some of my bootlegs of unknown stuff have NEVER been released on DVD or even VHS so I dont make a big deal out of it. My Abyss copy was one of those THX special edition versions so its pretty solid. Tons of extras with a neat menu screen. Sometimes I prefer the older DVDs because the Blu Rays can sometimes look a little goofy to me and the special effects are not as well hidden. Abyss is probably a solid bluray though. Cameron is likely fanatical about those. Maybe I will grab one cheap if I come across it.

We have thousands and thousands of DVDs. Maybe 50 blurays Upgrading everything to bluray would be insane. Sometimes I go Bluray if its an old film we dont have. I did buy Die Hard and Predator on Bluray but always end up just watching the DVDs. Predator looks kind of strange. Very colorful though.

DVDs here are also inexpensive. Used Book Stores and Pawn Shops sell them for $1 and if you get say 30 DVDs its $20. I guess blu rays were good in that way. Funny thing is my youngest son thinks VHS is the coolest thing ever. He likes old tech.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 3 days ago

He never really got the respect he deserved as an actor. Would have been nice for him to at least get nominated for the Abyss because I think its one of his best performances as well. Hes not really a bad guy in it just sick.

Awards are not everything though and its always been political. Mickey Rourke didnt even get nominated for Angel Heart and he made Deniro look like a fairly average character actor in that film. Figure that one out LOL.

In the long run nobody really remembers the awards but the films and performances are rediscovered. Here we are talking about Michael Biehn 35 years later as a supporting actor in a film. That says a lot about the quality of his acting.

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[–] Cognoscente (2503) 3 days ago

Awards are not everything though and its always been political. Mickey Rourke didnt even get nominated for Angel Heart and he made Deniro look like a fairly average character actor in that film.

Coincidentally, I have read several interviews where Mickey talks about how he dislikes the politics in Hollywood.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 3 days ago

Yes very much. Its a shame for him as well. Rourke had his ups and downs along with substance abuse problems. When he was on though it would be tough to find a better actor. Interesting approach he had to acting. He wasnt method like a lot of the more modern types more just traditional but boy was he good at it.

One thing Biehn was able to do later on in his career was get ahold of his own productions even though they were low budget. Rourke had a tendency to get so pissed off he would just want to quit entirely and Box. Seems like Mickey just liked fighting and competing whether it be boxing, acting, relationships etc. Kind of a torn individual. He developed a bad reputation and people grew tired and didnt want to put up with it anymore because making films is hard enough. Everyone basically agreed how good Mickey was on screen though. Even Deniro and those two hate each other.

I think Biehn has always been a serious actor that didnt want to be stuck in action films so he was reluctant to take leads sometimes. Seems like he was comfortable just focussing on characters and not really caring as much about leading a film. His abuse problems would put him in situations though where he would sometimes have to take anything he could get though which is probably why his work has a little inconsistency in terms of production quality. Hes really a big film actor that belonged with highly crafted directors that know what they are doing. I would have liked to see him collaborate more with guys like Carpenter, Badham, McTiernan, Tarantino, Fincher etc. Closest we got to him and Carpenter was Planet Terror with Rodriguez and I thought he was a great match for that style of film.

Always a shame when Alcohol/Drugs mess with careers. Swayze went through it as well. Mel Gibson another. Very long list of fine actors just cant keep it together. Staying around Hollywood is just a bad idea once some of these guys become known.

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[–] Cognoscente (2503) 3 days ago

It's a shame that Biehn didn't work with Rourke in their prime!

This is my favourite interview with Rourke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGz5MYTICb8

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 3 days ago

Yeah thats a good one. Rourke is always interesting to listen to in terms of perspective and his own flaws. He doesnt really hold back even when discussing his own flaws. He basically talks in interviews like hes speaking to a therapist. Late 90s Rourke was kind of getting back on track and Directors started giving him a chance again. Hes a tough guy and an absolute perfectionist with a huge streak of anti authority. It really takes another tough guy as a director to keep him straight. Sam Peckinpah, Walter Hill, William Friedkin types. Anything less and Mickey just cant keep it together, loses respect, and walks all over them. I would say the same comes when working with actors. Biehn and him probably would have done great work on screen together but Im not sure Biehn would have liked him. Michael's not one to appreciate lot of drama and conflict on the set. Hes more about get the job done and make the film which is probably why Cameron always used him as basically a reliable fall back actor when he needed someone he could count on.

Cameron and Rourke might be an interesting combo but Mickey wouldnt be able to screw around. Cameron probably end up firing him pretty quick if Rourke wouldnt keep it together. Cameron did allow actors to improvise though. Maybe it could have worked IDK.

Rourke is one of a kind though. Some of his performances are practically legendary. Now hes kind of laughed at but people forget how good he actually was. Desperate Hours is forgotten and underrated. Basically Rourke going toe to toe with Hopkins for 2hours on screen. Rourke tends to approach acting with actors more like boxing matches than collaborations. It takes a strong actor just to hang with him onscreen. Harley Davison and Marlboro Man is a silly and fun movie but Don Johnson (Also extremely underrated) is very strong in that film. I have always personally thought actors were intimidated to work with Rourke. He shook up Deniro on Angel Heart IMO.

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[–] Ripkens25 (1956) 2 days ago

I agree with a lot of what you said about Mickey Rourke (I'm a big fan)....but he was definitely a method actor. In fact, he learned his craft at the Lee Stasberg acting school, known as a renowned method acting school.

Mickey's career has had a zig-zag trajectory. Good early on (his 2 brief scenes in Body Heat really put him on the map). Good in Diner.....progressively better in more arty films like Homeboy, Johnny Handsome, A Prayer for the Dying. 9 1/2 Weeks was a star-maker.....he was stellar in Pope of Greenwich Village, Angel Heart and Barfly. Then, things started to cool off when he began to dabble in plastic surgery (Wild Orchid for example...which happened BEFORE boxing. I know he claims the bad plastic surgery was a result of trying to fix boxing injuries....but he dabbled in it before boxing).

Then, movies like Desperate Hours and White Sands came along, and even Harley Davidson & the Marlboro Man......all serviceable, and it was the last time you'd see Mickey looking like some semblance of his former self.

Then came a string of bad movies, until somewhat of a one-movie comeback with The Wrestler, and some bit parts in movies like The Pledge and Sin City. Then, his movies took a serious downward spiral.

It's a damn shame. I think Mickey has suffered from a form of body dysmorphic disorder. He was an extremely handsome actor...but that's never what HE saw in the mirror. And the more he tried to fix what he thought were flaws, the worse it got. It's like a greek tragedy.

Such a talented actor in his prime. But his performances got progressively worse the more his ego got in the way, and he felt playing tough guys was his forte. He changed his voice, his look, his approach and his choices. If anyone wants to see Mickey at near his best, check out Pope of Greenwich Village.

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[–] AsBelowSoAbove (267) 2 days ago

Im going to take your word for it but Ive never mentioned him refer to his acting technique as method. Ive seen him talk about him taking a more natural approach and then improvising on the fly which I find amazing considering how good he was.

Hard to say about his looks. Wild Orchid he had definitely screwed with some. Cheek implants I think it was but Im no expert on plastic surgeries. I think he had it reversed soon after which is why he looked fine again for Desperate Hours. Who knows. I kind of overlooked the surgeries because I liked his acting and intensity.

To me he is top 5 actors of all time. Maybe even #1. Its hard to narrow things down that much. I dont know of another actor like him when he was on his game and fully committed. There are times in Angel Heart, Rumble Fish, and Desperate Hours when im just in disbelief how good he is. Pope as well. Year of the Dragon also. Wrestler, Pledge, Thin Red Line deleted scenes. Just an amazing actor.

Kudos to these modern Directors like Aronofsky, Rodriguez and Miller for taking a chance on him again. Mickey is his own worst enemy in so many ways but I also get it. Im not sure he has even had a "Happy" day in his entire life. The industry is nasty and full of serpents. Mickey basically growing up a street kid so its a miracle he didnt killed someone. My guess would be the boxing saved him from that.

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[–] Ripkens25 (1956) 2 days ago

Yes, we’ll said.

And I forgot how great he is in Rumble Fish. Good call.

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[–] BourbonKing (5701) a day ago

Drugs

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