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Best Alice in Wonderland

posted 3 years ago by Ace_Spade (9379)
20 replies | jump to latest

There have been, over the years, dozens of adaptations of Lewis Carroll's beloved masterpiece (and its companion/sequel, Through the Looking Glass). I was recently discussing a couple versions over on the Merlin message boards (Merlin the miniseries with Sam Neill, not Merlin the BBC show), and I got to thinking: what are the best ones? What are the weirdest ones? Any hidden gems?

I'm starting this thread to talk about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. If you want to post your favourite version: great. Least favourite: groovy. Favourite moment, weirdest moment, favourite celebrity cameo, best costume design - it's all on the table.

I prefer discussion and thoughtfulness to quick posts, so if you have a couple "whys" in addition to "whats", so much the better, but that's not a rule. If you just want to zap in, "I like X!" More power to you.

My personal favourite version is a miniseries produced by Robert Halmi Sr. (who also did the Merlin series). It's got a good tone, and although they try to shoehorn in an overarching plot, it's still great, and the guest stars all play it to the hilt. It's hard to pick a favourite (Gene Wilder as the Mock Turtle, Martin Short as the Hatter, or Christopher Lloyd as the White Knight?). It's just really great and (mostly) true to the spirit of Carroll's work.

The weirdest version I've heard of (but not seen) is Miyuki-chan in Wonderland, which is a softcore lesbian anime version.

I know it's got a lot of haters, but I don't mind the Burton version. Like all Burton stuff, I just kinda go, "It's Tim Burton," and accept it on that basis. It's nothing like Carroll's, and it's not brilliant, but I thought it was kind fun, visually sumptuous, and just wacky enough to be intriguing.

I also have a lot of love for American McGee's Alice video game; haven't played the sequel, but the original is great.

[–] tcrum (29868) 3 years ago

Interesting topic. I have been looking for a version I saw as a kid in the 80s and can't find. The original disney cartoon is very good and cute. I was not a fan of the new version (2010).

[–] Ace_Spade (9379) 3 years ago

I like the Disney version. There are a lot of elements to it that are really neat. The animation is solid, the look is good, and the vocal performances are nice. They let it get a little spooky with the tulgey wood, too. They did skip stuff, and mixed it around, which was a bit strange to me; it's such a disjointed narrative, why shuffle anything? Just pick the best bits and do them.

The best part of the Disney cartoon is the mad tea party. Ed Wynn is marvellous as the Hatter, and the dialogue there is really funny, as is the visual gags. I'm not a big fan of the way they play out the Walrus and the Carpenter, though, with that repetition of the one verse to make a cute chorus of it, and the alteration of the line to, "We're cabbages and kings!" as though they're trying to make it some kind of a metaphor that sounds wacky, but then you, like, "get it, man...!" It just felt forced to me. Still, props to Disney for not putting the breaks on them killing the oysters. I also really liked the creativity Disney brought to the animated stuff like with the cards marching in, or with the weird creatures in the woods (the accordion owl, for instance, or the sweeper dog).

[–] greenbudgie (2355) 3 years ago

I actually like the way Disney sequenced the story in the 1951 release. I agree that Ed Wynn is tremendous as the Mad Hatter. Ed Wynn also turns up in Betty Boop's short take on Alice in 1934. 'Betty In Blunderland.' He appears briefly out of jar of jam as Betty falls down the rabbit hole.

I reckon the Disney 1951 version will always be the one for me. I used to like the Jonathan Miller 1966 teleplay version. But that changed when I heard Jonathan Miller call the Disney version nonsensical and waffled on about Alice being all about the nightmare of growing up. The Alice stories are nonsense stories so of course Disney made his film nonsensical.

[–] Ace_Spade (9379) 3 years ago

Betty Boop did Alice? I'm watching that.

The Disney '51 cartoon is a solid version. It's really good. I wasn't trying to be over-critical, I was just saying that, for me, it's strange that they messed around with the nonsense. Like, why are you doing that? It's still weird. What's the difference?

I'm going to check out the Miller version now, too.

I think Alice is about growing up, to some extent, but not necessarily because Carroll intended it. But, if you go, okay, she's entering a new world, nothing seems to make sense to her anymore, she's changing size, it's all awkward...yeah, there's a "growing up" metaphor in there. But that is, as you say, peripheral to the nonsense, and I would guess that it was not intended by Carroll.

Accidental meaning can be quite valuable, though - as long as it doesn't contradict the material. So, seeing Lord of the Rings as an anti-war story is fine. Tolkien didn't necessarily mean that, but I think "war = bad" is within the umbrella of takeaways from the story. However, seeing it as a story about how violence is bred from repressed erotic impulses...well, I'm not sure that the text would support it. Or saying, "Oh, Sauron was right and the story is ironic," well that would be directly contradictory to the text.

But with Alice, I do think it might be read as a growing-up metaphor, as long as one remembers it's really nonsensical fun first, and doesn't rip on other versions for that nonsense. That's...that's a dumb statement from Miller.

[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

Of the ones I have seen, which is admittedly not many, my favourite is ' Alice ' (1988) Directed by Jan Svankmajer and starring Kristyna Kohoutova as Alice. It uses stop motion for the various creatures and is quite hypnotic to watch for some reason. " Different, unusual and interesting. "

[–] Ace_Spade (9379) 3 years ago

Stop motion would be perfect for Alice. Definitely has a surreal quality that would bring out the strangeness. Plus, stop-motion stuff often has great designs.

[–] keybored (2654) 3 years ago

You beat me to it. This was an amazing version.

It's here if anyone wants to watch it -https://youtu.be/gbxYIR9TLbQ

[–] Stratego (29300) 3 years ago

That one totally creeped me out as a kid!

[–] tcrum (29868) 3 years ago

I own this version, a miniseries I think from Sci Fi. Its very good. Alice 2009 https://youtu.be/uu0aAOqjlRI

[–] Ace_Spade (9379) 3 years ago

I think that's on Amazon Prime, yes? If so, I'll check it out.

[–] Mrmojo4700 (20523) 3 years ago

I know it’s a stretch but some parts are played in this video. 😀

https://moviechat.org/nm2151258/Acen-Razvi/5f3db876d283a61479dd1ffa/Great-Early-90s-EDM

[–] Ace_Spade (9379) 3 years ago

That was trippy and mad (insane). I'm not usually the EDM type, but as a gateway to strangeness...it sorta works.

Thanks for the contribution!

[–] beantown23 (1438) 3 years ago

Meatball's Kristine DeBell in Alice in Wonderland An X-Rated Musical Fantasy 1976

[–] Ace_Spade (9379) 3 years ago

I've heard of that one, too. I think Cracked talked about it in an article? It's hilarious that somebody out there made a porno of Alice, but decided they definitely needed to make it a musical, too.

[–] CKid (3816) 3 years ago

I actually saw this film on the big screen when it was first released back in 1976.
I'm pretty sure it was the hard R rated version, as I also saw the X rated version on VHS years later.
Even though the film was kind of ridiculous, it was nonetheless quite funny. Kristine DeBell was extremely memorable in it as well.
Here's her singing, Growing Up - https://youtu.be/noAeOIffoso
And here's the trailer - https://youtu.be/g8fDfZPN-6Y
as well as the film's IMDb page - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074113/

I would probably buy the DVD of this film if it were available.

EDIT: Found it! Just bought the DVD over at Amazon, and even though it was somewhat expensive, sometimes you just gotta say, WTF!
It was the non-rated version, so I'm not exactly sure which version I'll be getting. Right now I'm guessing it will be the X rated version, but that is only a guess. Unfortunately, the DVD won't arrive until sometime between February 22nd and March 2nd.

Oh yeah, I also ordered Meatballs (1979) on DVD as well, which will arrive tomorrow.
That one only cost $5.99, so the average of the two makes Alice seem a bit more reasonable.

[–] Mrmojo4700 (20523) 3 years ago

I know what you mean about the DVD purchases. I find myself ordering films that are obscure and I’m scared one day the price will be too high, so I buy it now. I’ve even bought pricey movies on VHS. Some times you just gotta do it.

[–] CKid (3816) 3 years ago

Sometimes you just gotta do it, indeed!
Inspired by my purchase of Meatballs, I just added Stripes (1981) to my Amazon order, which only cost $5.00 for the DVD.
That makes three Bill Murray films I bought this week, as Caddyshack (1980) on Blu-ray, arrived yesterday.
And because P.J. Soles was so memorable in Stripes, I also ordered Rock 'n' Roll High School (1979) on DVD as well.
https://youtu.be/oz7KYUkdlvE

[–] Mrmojo4700 (20523) 3 years ago

Oh yeah, I have Stripes on VHS. I think I fell in love with her as a kid because of Stripes. 😀 I don’t think I’ve seen Rock n Roll high.

I guess my most recent impulsive DVD purchase was Butcher, Baker, Nightmare Maker (1981).

[–] CKid (3816) 3 years ago

I saw Rock 'n' Roll High School on the big screen because I was a fan of the Ramones.
Like said group, I also grew up in Queens, New York at the same time. [I moved to Miami in 1982.]
I first saw them in concert at a club called My Father's Place in Roslyn, Long Island back in 1977. I also saw them several times at CBGB's in Manhattan.
This was with the original members of the band ... Joey, Johnny, Dee Dee and Tommy.
I also saw them at a club in Vancouver, B.C. in 1980. Marky was the drummer then as he had replaced Tommy in 1978.

Definitely check out the film, because if you fell in love with P.J. Soles in Stripes, you'll certainly rekindle that love when you see her as Riff Randle in Rock 'n' Roll High School.
Trailer - https://youtu.be/gyn0l04d1jY

[–] Mrmojo4700 (20523) 3 years ago

Wow! I can’t believe I didn’t know this existed.