How come Russian Americans are not protesting?
Why are Russian Americans not protesting Biden sending money to Ukraine like the Palestinians are?
I think it comes down to better sense.
Different cultures.
Because the weapons sent to israel are used strictly to destroy infrastructure, kill and displace palestinian civilians to the final solution of cleansing the land of palestinians so israel can conquer and colonize.
Israel is not fighting hamas, they are pretending to fight hamas while methodically cleansing palestinians. The only purpose of this war is civilian displacement and land conquest.
^^^ This
sharealmonigal,
That infrastructure being destroyed is used by Hamas. There's no ethnic cleansing because the Palestinians are all still in Gaza. That "final solution" has left 2 million Palestinians still alive in Gaza. Israel is certainly fighting Hamas. Thousands of Hamas terrorists have been killed. Over a hundred Israeli soldiers have been killed fighting Hamas. How did all those soldiers die if Israel is only pretending to fight Hamas?
That's like saying Hitler didn't commit ethnic cleansing and genocide against Jews because there are still Jews in Germany.
We don't know how many Hamas have been killed. You can't assume because a man is killed that he is Hamas. Israel arrests poets and journalists as well as killing Christains and have been labeling them as Hamas.
Your analogy sucks. There were a half million Jews in Germany at the time Hitler took over. Most of them left Gemany before the war. Most of those who didn't get out died in the Holocaust. In contrast, there are still 2 million Palestinians alive in Gaza. No ethnic cleansing and no genocide.
You're right that we don't know how many thousands of Hamas terrorists have been killed. But that doesn't change the fact that thousands of them have been killed. I'm not talking about anyone who's been arrested. I'm only talking about those who have been killed. No Christians have been labeled as Hamas. You made that up out of thin air.
Translate:
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/658f2ab0072c6f3e33866309/South-Africa-Accuses-Israel-of-Genocide-in-UN-Court?reply=659032bf45273a626aeb69c5
You wrote that you went to a Jewish school, which emphasizs teaching Hebrew, for many years while growing up. You can always cheat and ask your mommy, family or friends to translate.
Prove that you're not lying!
All this proves is how desperate you are to get out of admitting that your analogy to the Holocaust is completely wrong and that thousands of Hamas terrorists have been killed in Gaza. Do you even realize how terrible your ridiculous shenanigans make you look on this forum? Do you even realize how much everyone here hates you because of all your bullshit?
shareProof positive that you're a liar!
shareNo, *YOU'RE* the liar. You just lied about it being illegal to be gay in Florida. You've lied about that and numerous other things. You don't have the credibility to claim that anyone else lied. Pointing out that you're desperately trying to change the subject only proves that you don't want to admit that your analogy to the Holocaust is completely wrong and that thousands of Hamas terrorists have been killed in Gaza.
shareYou're like a white racist who pretends to be black before spewing anti-black garbage on a radio show because there's a presumption that a "black person" saying it will add more credibility.
You hate Muslims and believe your pretending to be Jewish gives you license to spew your hate mongering Islamophobic rants.
You're pathetic. Your behavior is an insult to decent Jewish people.
You're only saying all this crap because you're a piece of crap troll. Everyone here knows it, even the other anti-Israel commenters. Haven't you seen all the threads here making fun of you? Doesn't it bother you at all knowing how much everyone here hates you?
shareThey are using the fight against hamas as a distraction for ethnically cleansing west bank and forcing people from gaza somewhere else. The purpose is not the defeat of hamas, its land grab under the fog of war. Hamas is the new bin laden- kill, bomb and maim until they choose to declare it defeated.
Videos have surfaced about how israeli children are being educated to actually hate palestinians.
Israelis are so brainwashed, they dont compute how the rest of the world does not consider palestinians animals. They are educated that all land is theirs and palestinians are just pests.
Not their fault tbh, its the fault of their zionist state.
So many decades and the Pals cannot get on with their lives
with the billions of dollars sent to support them?
The elect leaders who kill those who speak out against them,
take all the wealth and labor of Palestinians and use it for terror
against Israel.
Very few to none of the Palestinians alive today had land in Israel
before the state of Israel. Peaceful Arabs stayed and prospered
while those stuck in refugee camps devolved into this terrorist
society that is good for nothing else. Their children are ruined by
the time they ready to go to school - where they learn to hate
and kill.
Best thing for Pals would be to be put on Global Timeout in some
refugee camps outside of Israel. The Sinai and the panhandle of
Jordan would be perfect. If you want to frame that as ethnic
cleansing it is a lot better than the ethnic cleansing the Palestinians
have in mind for Israel that they have expressed and worked towards
every day for many many decades.
Palestinians are not going to change. But their dysfunction and
criminality cannot be excused any longer. They are killing about
1000 Israelis every year with rockets, knife attacks, suicide bombers,
and snipers.
How long is that supposed to go on for? These were Arabs at a time
when in that area there were no countries and it was a logical place
for Jews to buy land - which they did.
Arabs sold them lands that they thought they would get paid for
and then come back and take back from the Jews by force, because
that was the state of civilization at the time for Arabs. When making
the oil deals with the Saudis the old king used to see a pretty European
girl and ask how much to buy her.
The Palestinians do not deserve to be able to hit at Israel every time
their inferiority complex gets tweaked - ethnic cleansing or not.
No, everything you say is fake and misinformation.
Palestinians were never allowed to get on with their lives, and were cobstantly harassed.
If they were allowed, then why:
- israel forbids to build airports to attract tourism
-israel forbids building a port to actually develop themselves
-all their infrastructure is cobstantly destroyed by israel, since long time ago until now
-they have no freedom to travel
-they have no freedom to own land or build
-houses are constantly stolen and they are methodically pushed away
Probably many more
All these things i found out in the past 3 months, like many others.
Afaik, Hitler asked for a final solution against jews.
Neranyahu doesnt ask for a final solution against palestinians, he has it and actively implements it.
To say Israel is worse than nazis is not an exagerration, it is a logical conclusion.
Also, this tabu bullshit about not criticizing israel or else you are antisemitic is purely and simply terrorism.
You arre political and criticize israel? Prepare to get fucked.
Youtuber criticizing israel? Prepare to get demonetized.
Etc etc
Any piece of shit calling someone else antisemitic because they criticize the bombing of innocent civilians should be labeled terrorist and imprisoned.
If you want to get on with your life, you just do it, and it was not Israel that prevented that.
Israel gave them hospital ( even cured the Hamas leader of cancer ), power, water, and jobs to help them and give them money/capital.
Anyway, your language shows you are an hysterical hater and know nothing, so no idea why I am wasting time trying to explain to you.
Finally the Palestinians are going to get the F-ing they deserve and have been begging for.
Gazans had no interactions with Israel at all except to go through those gates to jobs where Israelis treated them well, gave them jobs and money. The whole world gave Hamas money to develop - all they did was to flame hate as high as possible.
Ofc gazans had no interactions with israel, OR ANYONE ELSE, because they were imprisoned. No way to go but israel.
Israel gave them power and water because it didnt allow them access to water or even to build power plants. Again, thats what prison guards do.
That about treating the hamas leader? They created and sponsored hamas in order to keep gaza and west bank divided. Just proves the point of a terrorism sponsoring state.
Gazans were imprisoned? By whom?
It was Hamas who was executing Gazans for apostasy or trying to leave?
Where should they leave to? Israel that they say they hate, or Egypy who doesn't want Muslim Brotherhood terrorists in their country?
Where? Wherever they want or afford, like you and me. Go to government, apply for passport, then take plane or train or a boat.
And they can come back to a home that hasnt been bulldozed, cause thats how the normal world works
You don't seem to understand that an anonymous group of Gazans control their population by force. That also the Palestinian people are not wanted anywhere. The Arabs know what they have done to those people, they have ruined this whole growing population brainwashed for terror indefinitely. They cannot be anywhere near Israel of they will continue to make war.
sharealmonigal,
It's completely false that Israel "created" Hamas. Israel helped fund Ahmed Yassin's Islamic Association, which was merely a charity. Later, a group of men from outside the Islamic Association started Hamas and at that time they met with Ahmed Yassin to get his verbal blessing.
Ok. Answer me some simple facts, no need to know politics or history for this.
Why are streets in west bank segregated? Israelis are allowed to walk on some roads, while palestinians, and by that i mean women and children, are not? Is that ok with you? Is it a security issue?
Why are israeli children not allowed to know or befriend palestinian children?
These are proven facts.
I'm not familiar with segregated streets in the West Bank where Palestinians aren't allowed to walk but I do know that there's segregated roads on which certain drivers are restricted. It's a security issue and it works both ways. There are also roads in the West Bank on which Israelis may not drive. And there is no law in Israel forbidding Israeli children from befriending Palestinian children. Where do you get this stuff from?
shareI get this stuff from youtube.
Not even searching for it.
Get familiar with it and get back with a response. Prove the contrary to me and I will apologise for providing false info.
i get that its a security issue about drivers, but there are women and children not allowed to even fucking walk on those roads!
Simply telling me that you learned this stuff from Youtube isn't proof of anything. You're the one making the allegations so the obligation is on you to prove them.
shareIts super easy to prove and its common knowledge that not many people deny, they just sugarcoat it "because security reasons".
Which is basically terrorism(yes, their purpose is to terrorise palestinians) and gaslighting
If you can point me to specific proof of this then I'll address it. If this is true then it should be easy for you to find it.
sharehttps://www.btselem.org/freedom_of_movement/forbidden_roads
Official info above. Address it
This is for security reasons and it works both ways. There's also roads in the West Bank on which Israelis aren't allowed.
shareExplain how not allowing women and children to walk on a road is for security reasons.
Then show me a comprehensive list like i showed you of roads that israelis are not allowed on.
Women and children can throw stones at cars. I can't show you a list of West Bank roads that Israelis are restricted from. What I can tell you is that Israelis are restricted from roads in Area A of the West Bank, which is under full Palestinian Authority security and administrative control.
shareIf you can't, shut up. No need to answer just for answering, i am out of bananas
shareIf I took the time and effort to study a map of Area A of the West Bank then I might be able to create such a list for you but for now you'll have to do with what I provided. For now I can tell you that one of the roads is Route 57. You asked me a question and I gave you the best answer I could.
sharealmonigal,
Over the past 30 years Israel has made several offers for peace agreements with the Palestinians. Imagine how much development the Palestinians could have had if they accepted one of these agreements. Nothing can improve for them while they continue their war against Israel.
Hitler's Final Solution was the death of all the Jews in Europe. And yet Israel merely preventing Palestinian development in the West Bank makes it worse than Hitler? Do you realize how absurd you sound? 80 years ago there were 100,000 Jews in the countries bordering Israel. It's now down to 32. 32! Are those countries worse than Hitler?
Over the past 30 years israel never made a real offer of a palestinian state. Just gaslighting.
The only realistic offer was made by itsak rabin and he was assassinated by an israeli for this.
Hitlers final solution was either relocation xor death to jews, Netanyahus final solution is either relocation or death to palestinians, which you are now watching live from your living room.
And both of them educated their people to hate the other group.
What is there to debate?
Israel has in fact made real offers for peace agreements at least twice over the past 30 years. They were certainly real offers of peace. It would have worked but the Palestinians refused to negotiate.
What you're saying about the Final Solution is completely absurd. Hitler's Final Solution was to specifically kill all the Jews in Europe. Relocation wasn't part of it. And you're absurdly comparing that to Israel allegedly forcing Palestinians to leave the West Bank, an area covering 2,000 square miles. It's all the more absurd because the Germans were the victims of both bombing and massive ethic cleansing during and after World War II. Are you going to tell me that the Germans were subjected to a Final Solution? And because the Arab countries got rid of all their Jews are you going to tell me that they also carried out a Final Solution?
Israel has in fact made real offers for peace agreements at least twice over the past 30 years.
Ok, prove to me that israel offered state recognition, guarantees, freedom to palestinians beyond any reasonable doubt and I will concede. Maybe I am wrong, convince me.
At the Camp David negotiations in 2000, Ehud Barak offered the Palestinians 95% of a contiguous West Bank, 100% of Gaza, a capital in East Jerusalem and $30 billion to help resettle Palestinian refugees. In 2008, Ehud Olmert offered near total withdrawal from the West Bank except for the 6% with major Jewish settlements as well as to create a link between the West Bank and Gaza. He offered to compensate the Palestinians for the loss of that 6% with an equal amount of Israeli land adjacent to the West Bank. A big part of the problem with these peace proposals is that the Palestinians insist on Israel accepting the return of millions of (most of them are actually the descendants of) Palestinian refugees to Israel's side of the border and Israel would never accept that.
shareCamp david 2000.
Palestinians were not offered sovreignty over east jerusalem, or a capital there. A simple google search shows that. To me it seems that was the real issue in those failed accords, the east jerusalem issue.
Fun fact about these negotiations:
Israel also wanted water resources in the West Bank to be shared by both sides and remain under Israeli management. Lol.
Question 1: why are you making false statements and present them as facts?
Ehud Barak 2008:
Again, google
“The major settlement blocs separate the West Bank and confiscates east Jerusalem,” Sedam said. “These settlement blocs are not isolated populations. They are connected communities, passing through the Palestinian land, which kills any geographical contiguity for a Palestinian state.”
It was this reason, that keeping the settled cities in west bank would just result in a geographically fractured palestinian state.
Seems Netanyahu opposed Ehud Barak then, lol. Even if Barak had good intentions, it would have never happened.
Question 2: again, why you present partial truths, without specifying relevant additional info, as truth?
I guess I had the wrong information on the Israeli proposal for East Jerusalem in 2000. I'm not an expert on these issues. It would seem that the water in the West Bank is very important to Israel. The Israelis and Palestinians could have negotiated more over that issue. It's my understanding that the major settlement blocs are the ones near Jerusalem and just on the other side of the border. From what I see there could be a way to keep East Jerusalem connected to the West Bank in a Palestinian state.
shareYou are not an expert, yet you claim palestinians were offered a fair, or even acceptable deal and they refused, which is false. Then you base on this false fact that somehow israel is the reasonable party, which is again false.
I never claimed to be an expert on anything. People make claims about political issues on which they're not experts all the time. That's the very nature of the politics forum. I believe what Israel offered the Palestinians for a peace agreement was fair. Perhaps I'm wrong about that. Disagreement among people on such issues is inevitable. Perhaps a peace agreement is impossible because of the impasse over refugees, the issue on which there seems to be the greatest distance. I believe a peace agreement would be possible if the Palestinians had greater willingness to negotiate more over these issues.
shareWell youre wrong. If it was fair they would have accepted. End of
shareWhat's "fair" is subjective and arbitrary. It's probably impossible for there to be any peace agreement that both sides believe is fair. And you automatically assume that the Palestinians would accept any agreement they considered fair rather than just continue their war to destroy Israel.
shareRight now I am seeing a war to destroy palestine.
shareGaza is just one small part of "Palestine", however you define that. And it's not being "destroyed" any more than Germany was "destroyed" during World War II, when its cities were bombed from the air and hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed. This is just the harsh reality of fighting a terrorist group heavily entrenched in a crowded urban area:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/the-hell-of-urban-warfare
And see my post about monkeys.
Do these monkeys undergo basic if-then updates periodically, and no else condition defined?
Like:
Genocide in gaza: monkey say - yeah, but allies in ww2 also did this
Apartheid in west bank or displaced people: monkey say - security reasons
Better write some 10 line script to achieve same purpose, you would save money on bananas
You're just being unnecessarily insulting and dismissive. You said "Palestine" is being "destroyed" and you didn't even explain what you mean by that. Now you say there's genocide in Gaza. I already explained to you yesterday why that's not true. In order to disprove my argument based on what happened in World War II at the very least you have to be willing to claim that the bombing of German civilians by the Allies was genocide. Are you even willing to make that claim? If you claim there's genocide then the burden is on you to prove it. You clearly didn't read the article I showed you about the enormous difficulties fighting a terrorist group heavily entrenched in a crowded urban area. You don't understand the difficulties of what Israel is doing. There is no apartheid in the West Bank:
https://www.thetower.org/article/the-apartheid-libel-a-legal-refutation/
Some roads in the West Bank are closed off to Palestinians for security reasons because of past terrorist attacks against Israelis on those roads. That works both ways. There are other roads in the West Bank closed off to Israelis as well as other places closed off to Israeli pedestrians.
almonigal,
Israel isn't forcing any Palestinians out of the West Bank or Gaza. You don't have any evidence that Isreal is "grabbing" any land in Gaza. And how the hell is Israel supposed to fully defeat Hamas in Gaza without effectively taking control over all of it for the time being?
Yes they are. They are actively pushing palestinians from their homes in west bank. Every single day. Today they will drive some also. Tomorrow also.
In gaza, they are forcing all civilians in the south, and from there they can either die of starvation or go to egypt. Basically making life unbearable for them.
And they want to blame others for not taking palestinians.
Basically, its not a debate they are terrorists and genocidal maniacs, its a fact. How would you describe a government who intentionally starves, bombs, maims and kill children because their parents dont want to leave their land?
Even if some Palestinians in the West Bank have lost their homes they're still living in the West Bank. Israel is trying to get as many civilians in Gaza to the south so they're more out of the way of Israel's war against Hamas, which is now focused in the north. This is only temporary. Being in the south doesn't force them out of Gaza because the Egyptians aren't letting in Palestinians.
Israel isn't starving the Palestinians. Food gets into Gaza. Civilians don't have enough food because Hamas steals it. Civilians have been bombed in pretty much every war in the past 100 years. The Allies killed hundreds of thousands of German civilians by bombing during World War II and that wasn't genocide. What Israel is doing is that much more clearly not genocide. So many civilians have died because Hamas is hiding behind them.
This is only temporary.
If this is true, I have no problme with it. By all means, eradicate hamas.
What I am saying is that israel is lying. Time will tell, lets continue this conversation in june 2024.
Allies killed hundreds of thousands of German civilians by bombing during World War II and that wasn't genocide.
This is basically the "Chewbacca defense". You are saying that if in world war 2 atrocities were committed against german civilians that had no idea what their government was doing, or they knew and they were powerless to stop it, somehow it justifies burning children, maiming children, starving children, exposing children to disease in gaza.
Israel isn't lying about that and you have no reason to believe that it is. There's already enormous controversy over all the civilians that have died so far so Israel has every incentive to try to reduce the death toll as much as possible. It needs civilians out of the way as much as possible to effectively fight Hamas.
I'm not making a Chewbacca Defense. I'm making a comparison that's directly relevant to the issue at hand. My point about World War II is that the death of civilians was inevitable. The death of civilians in modern wars is inevitable. It's that much more inevitable in Gaza because Hamas hides behind the civilians. And you didn't address my main point. You accused Israelis of being "genocidal maniacs" because Palestinian civilians are killed by Israeli bombing so I responded by pointing to what the Allies did during World War II to demonsrate why what Israel is doing isn't genocide.
I did not accuse israelis of being genocidal maniacs.
I have CONCLUDED based on actual declarations made by israeli officials, idf spokespeople and whatever is happening now in gaza that they are genocidal maniacs.
Its a fact
If that's your conclusion then I just explained why your conclusion is wrong. There's no evidence of actual genocide. It isn't nearly as bad as what happened to German civilians during and after World War II and that wasn't genocide either. Israel could have easily killed over a million Palestinians by now by carpet bombing Gaza but it's not doing anything like that. I'm certain that if Hamas killed 20,000 Israelis on 10/7 then you wouldn't be claiming now that what Israel is doing in Gaza is genocide.
shareIf hamas killed 20k israelis, i would certainly agree to fucking level gaza until no 2 bricks are left standing. But still i wouldnt agree to kill children who have no fault.
But now i am not so sure hamas killed all the victims on oct 7, i suspect also ff.
So if Hamas killed 20,000 Israelis on 10/7 then you would be totally okay with Israel doing what you claim is genocide? That makes it sound like you don't really believe that what Israel has done is genocide. And how would you actually level Gaza without killing any children? If you're so sure that Israel isn't justified in what it's doing in Gaza then why do you need to hedge your bet by blaming the IDF for some of the deaths of Israelis in the 10/7 attack?
shareI would create a corridor for wwomen and children into israel or west bank, wait 1 month then bomb the shit out of gaza.
shareThat's completely unserious. First off, Israel can't create a "corridor" for over a million Palestinians from Gaza anywhere in Israel or the West Bank. Second, Israel would have no way of forcing all the women and children in Gaza to suddenly leave. You clearly didn't think carefully about this suggestion.
shareMeanwhile idf forcing all palestinians into sinai.
shareNo, they're not. Egypt isn't allowing Palestinians into Sinai.
shareI said idf forcing all palestinians into sinai and you say egypt doesnt allow them. Do you have a basic concept of how a sentence is formed? The subject in my question is idf, not egypt.
I will rephrase it for you:
Idf constantly trying to force palestinians into egypt in an attempt to ethnically cleanse gaza and egypt refusing the displacement because it understands it is an attempt to ethnically cleanse gaza.
Sometimes i am under the impression israel genetically engineered some monkeys to have the ability to type and released them into a room filled with bananas and computers
I fully understand what you said. That doesn't change what I said, genius. Egypt isn't allowing Palestinians into Sinai so Israel can't force them into Sinai. How the hell is Israel forcing the Palestinians into Sinai if Egypt doesn't allow it? Furthermore, forcing Palestinians into Sinai would rupture relations between Egypt and Israel so it doesn't even benefit Israel to force them into Sinai.
shareIm not blaming idf for some deaths, idf soldiers admitted they shot at crowds coming from nova festival, without knowing which is which. They admitted this. All I want to know is HOW MANY were killed by idf
shareI've seen allegations that an IDF helicopter killed some of the Israelis at the music festival but the Israeli government denies that this happened. But I haven't even seen any claims that IDF soldiers admitted to shooting at crowds at the music festival.
share"How did all those soldiers die if Israel is only pretending to fight Hamas?"
An embarrassing proportion of the IDF deaths are friendly fire.
The death rate for Israeli soldiers in Gaza from friendly fire is 20%. Which means the other 80% are those killed by Hamas. So Israeli soldiers are mostly being killed by Hamas while fighting them.
share