MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Discovery (2017) Discussion > Time to correct the idiocy that differen...

Time to correct the idiocy that different life forms and interbreed


Why is it that anyone in the future would want to genetically
engineer a child, one of a kind in the universe, that could not
be understood biologically. Like Spock ... OK we let that one
go because it was the original series and no one knew any better.
I wish they would drop that crap from Star Trek, and they don't
see that this is the way forward for this series ... it cannot stay
at elementary school level forever, hopefully.

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IIRC, they explained it away in TNG that humanoids were all seeded by one species and that's why we share so many common traits and why many can interbreed.

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Yeah, that is more than idiotic. ( not you that explanation ).
When a species diverges too far it stops being able to breed between members.
The thing about Spock is Vulcans and Spock have green blood ... if I remember
it might have been based on copper, not iron. How is that supposed to work,
and why would anyone want it to?

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Yeah, we definitely need more science in our sci-fi. I have some education in biology and chemistry, some things bother me, some don't. I was a child when I started watching Star Trek so I got used to the idea at an early age. Something newer like The Orville, with it's "all male" species drives me nuts because it's combined with hamfisted social commentary that becomes nonsensical when examined. In a way it is an opportunity to educate people and make them think about things.
https://moviechat.org/tt5691552/The-Orville/59caf2bc8a7fe400124f4ed8/The-dumb-thing-about-episode-3

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Why are Americans among the most ignorant people in the world?
Our TV, but also because the corporations and Republicans need us to vote for idiots like Trump and "W".

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Americans are very religious and take the Bible literally. Once you go down that path then you can believe anything. And our science education is pathetic. Many science teachers don't have a degree in science, they have degrees in teaching. I remember frequently correcting my HS biology teacher. We were taught that atoms are like little solar systems even though that theory was replaced long before I or the teacher was born. Our physics class was nothing but math formulas which we lacked the preparation to understand. The best science class was chemistry because the teacher threw the book away and taught us the table of elements and everything about it. It was awesome and actually useful once I got to college but he was also lazy and didn't come to class half the time. A lot of things I learned in high school had to be unlearned when I got to college.

I don't want to get political but I do believe there has been a dumbing down of America. Probably not intentional but a combination of too much television, internet, and corporate and political propaganda. You can't trust anything these days. News isn't news anymore. And yet, people seem more gullible than ever. People I know who were sharp as a tack 15-20-30 years ago, will now believe practically anything if it comes from a source they trust.

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Find out about Betsy DeVoss, you can bet your ass it's political and on-purpose, mostly due to Republicans, but there are neo-liberals that support the corporatist agenda.

You can learn a lot from a few sources I can recommend, and take into account their biases, but they are pretty good.

Democracy Now! (great, but completely biased on the Middle East) - You-Tube
Podcast of the Ralph Nader Radio Hour - iTunes
KALW - Your Call Radio - on the web at KALW.org.

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I'll check them out.

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I never got why folk take the bible literally - we know it was hand copied so would have had variations just based on human error over centuries.

But more importantly we know that there were committees that got together and created 'official versions' we have committee notes for crying out loud.

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Well I know that and you know that but not everyone knows that. I didn't know it until my 20's. Most Christians are taught from birth that the Bible is the world of God and that God and Jesus are real life beings. They are taught it by people they trust and it is never (or rarely) challenged by anyone they trust. Plus, there is no downside to believing because most everyone they know believes. The church brainwashes them into believing "the world" is out to get Christians and the devil is trying to trick them into sinning. Many are taught that doubt is a sin, questioning too much is bad. So even if a Christian isn't "saved" or active in the church, they still have these fears of eternal damnation. On the upside, if you wrong someone, all you have to do is ask God's forgiveness - that's it. If you stole, you don't even have to give it back, just ask for forgiveness. No downsides. That's powerful. That's the Protestant viewpoint. Catholics are a bit more relaxed (except about sex) because they wrote the Bible and are more welcoming of science and learning (ironically considering their history).

I was raised Protestant, my wife is Catholic, so I've spent a lot of time with both sides. But it is in my nature to question everything and always doubt until I can prove it myself. With regard to active churchgoers, I like Catholics better. As an atheist, I can chill with Catholics and have a good time. I could be churchy or indifferent and they are fine with it. Protestants are constantly inviting me to church, probing my beliefs, and trying to convince me of the healing power of Jesus Christ. If I reveal to a Protestant that I'm an atheist, most of them become very angry, argumentative, defensive, and sometimes threatening. Catholics just seem disappointed for me, like I was late to dinner and missed the rolls.

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I don't think it is all that nefarious, or the people are all that stupid. It doesn't really matter unless you are really stupid whether the Bible is literally true or not, but it does matter whether you generally believe the moral code necessary to follow to be a Christian and get along with other people.

The problem is that there is no real mechanism except repression and ignorance to keep people in their little mental cages. That would be an easy problem to fix, and many Christians and even Jews are secular now, but they still count themselves as in their religion for social and life choices.

When I see people express such hate for religion I must confess I don't really get it. The number of real nuts is small, and what would they be in their societies if not for religion ... probably the same or maybe even worse.

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Most people are barely self aware, why else do you think they pray to fairy tales. Also, morality has nothing to do with religion. Nada.

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"why else do you think they pray to fairy tales."

I never forgot what Marjoe Gortner said during an interview. He was an ordained evangelist minister at 4 years old. When he became older, he told his followers that they were free to do whatever they wanted. That's not what they wanted to hear. They preferred someone telling them how to live. He eventually became an actor.

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Marjoe Gortner was a weird guy. Seems his whole life was using his scamming abilities ... albeit for less evil or corrupt results. People do not know what they want because they do not have much choice, but also, they work too hard and have too little access to what is really going in the world to understand.

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And some species haven't - lions and tigers. Dogs and wolves. Hybrid whales have been seen and so have hybrid dolphin types.

The important question is that even if the offspring is viable is it sterile or can breed in its own right - then you can argue that two species are truly compatible, which is something that isn't really discussed with the hybrid humanoids you see on the show - some maybe and some may not. We saw B'Elanna give birth but say would Tora Ziyal? Both are hybrids of different species but as a horse and a donkey are able to breed we can't say they are truly compatible as Mules with donkey mothers tend to be sterile.

So it isn't too much of a stretch to say that the TNG explanation is that we and other humaniod species were seeded by one species and we hadn't drifted far enough to have too much of a problem for the first generation to produce children or that those who wish to mate outside of their species have gotten to a point where they can do so with technological help - as with Dax and Worf talking about having children in DS9. It was mentioned that had visited a doctor due to them requiring help to procreate.

As for why would anyone want to have a child of two species - beings fall in love and wish to produce from that. It is mentioned that an oxygen breather and hydrogen breather fell in love on DS9. They could only be in a room for 20 minutes at a time with each other because of it, but it was enough for them. It isn't a jump to say some couples or groups may want more.

But the mixed species on the show has always been more of a comment on interracial dynamics than anything else.

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The idea that hominids were "seeded" from one species is ridiculous, there being no evidence, or connection to the beings who seeded them. Why are they all different? Why not just colonize with their own species. It's too stupid to consider. If I was the creation of two parents who would make me a one of the kind ... the idea again is too stupid to consider.

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There is no evidence as it was in a TV show. But they did show that various species had different ways of spreading their legacy each have different motives and methods. Get over it.

You had con artists pretending to be gods, misguided federation officials help build Nazi like states, they had one species force Picard to have a life time of false memories including recorder lessons.

And they told us why in the episode it was brought up - they did colonise other worlds but there was no other higher species around. They got that everything had a beginning and end, which is true most empires rise and fall. So they thought that they would seed life on other planets to ensure that their exist would go on and keep their memory in a sense and hopefully their descendent would work together.

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Because star trek tries reduce different species as being representations of different races on earth so cross reproduction is a sci-fi spin on interacial relationships.

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I'll buy that.

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