MovieChat Forums > Twin Peaks: The Return (2017) Discussion > Part 17 is a better season's finale than...

Part 17 is a better season's finale than part 18 is


Just my opinion. Lots of closure in part 17. And just the opposite in 18.

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Hmm. I sorta agree. Part 18 is the typical Lynch formula and we've seen it before.

It should just end with Julee Cruise singing as Cooper and Laura walk to their "home".

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Part 17 is also the last episode where we get to see several of the original cast.
But I don't know, I can't help but feel that several of the original cast were just there as fan service - Big Ed, Nadine, Dr. Jacoby, James, Jerry, Audrey... Felt like wasted opportunities. I was especially thrilled to see Doc Jacoby again, the old kook, but he had nothing to do with the plot this time around. I think I read somewhere that the finale was going to tie everything together, to make sense of these characters' seemingly random appearances, but they weren't even mentioned. So Part 18 was a bit of a let-down for me.

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It was. I still don't know how I feel about some things. Some scenes and moments were fantastic in the Return, but there wasn't any great episodes. After Part 6, it becomes unwatchable. There are a few good scenes sprinkled in through Parts 7-18, but I can't bear a rewatch at all. Those first 6 parts were so solid and seemed as if they were going somewhere. There was so much momentum in Part 3. Part 3 is probably the best episode of the third season.

Maybe Fire Walk With Me was the real finale to the series. If Laura can get through what her father did to her and find peace in the afterlife, so can the town and all the characters move on after the hellish cliffhangers of Episode 30 and find their peace too.

The Return was wrong on a lot of levels. First off, simply, I hated that they filmed in North Bend during warm weather. It made for a saturated and uninviting image. It should've been filmed in the winter, like the Pilot.

Part 17 basically told you that you can only return to the real Twin Peaks by watching the old series and movie. Because the world and everyone has had their "evolution" since the 1990's. Depressing, but true. Like Laura and Cooper, we cannot find our home. The proper time, place, and the ident are all gone.

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I was toying with the idea of doing a rewatch, one episode per week (to reflect how I was forced to watch the original series the first time around), starting with the episode "Got A Light" from S3, then FWWM, then The Missing Pieces, and then seasons 1, 2 and the rest of 3. But then I saw the videos of Youtuber "Wow Lynch Wow!", and this video in particular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlPJILl6teg

...and I think he makes a lot of sense. But, if we follow that perspective, then to me the first two seasons (and FWWM) are practically invalidated. At least, the way I had hitherto seen them is invalidated, and a big part of the magic is lost. So on my rewatch, I think I'll skip season 3 entirely - I want to preserve the magic of what I originally saw.

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I believe that Lynch was laughing his ass off at the audience all through Season 3. “I’m David Lynch. What else did you expect?” Sort of like Mike Tyson’s rape defense: “She knew who I was when she went out with me.”

No Season 4.

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That guy does Rummy's Corner. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZgdWPAoasAYi1iJS5N0jvg

"A channel dedicated to professional boxing, including the current boxing landscape, the rich history of prizefighting, and other topics pertaining to the sweet science."

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"But I don't know, I can't help but feel that several of the original cast were just there as fan service - Big Ed, Nadine, Dr. Jacoby, James, Jerry, Audrey... Felt like wasted opportunities. I was especially thrilled to see Doc Jacoby again, the old kook, but he had nothing to do with the plot this time around."

I felt the exact opposite -- that there was NO fan service -- and thankfully so.

In short, I interpret Twin Peaks as a bardo experience, in that light we see that Big Ed, Nadine and Norma achieve advancement and get to "move on" to the next level. Dr. Jacoby, Jerry, Ben Horne et al. are still working toward that goal. Audrey is a special case altogether (and no doubt in the "nut house").

Anyway, I'm sure you have a great deal of people who agree with you. We all experience and react to things in our own way. I loved season 3 myself and I think it's because I gave absolutely no forethought toward expectations. I knew that Lynch/Frost were in complete control so I felt that I was getting a pure vision of what TP's was about -- as opposed to the original series were different directors/writers would dabble here and there (not to say that I don't love Seasons 1/2 as well).

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Season 3 is weirdly a lot of re-lived storylines from Season 2. It's very spiritual and esoteric, to the point of it being like a new religion.

1) Leo was comatose in Season 2, so is Cooper in Season 3.
2) Dick and Andy take care of Little Nicky is akin to Cooper taking care of Sunny Jim.
3) Cooper was enlisted by Ben Horne to save Audrey, but gets in trouble for it. In a similar case, Leland enlists Cooper to save Laura in Season 3, but also gets in trouble for it.
4) James finding a romantic interest outside of Twin Peaks is akin to Cooper finding a romantic interest outside of Twin Peaks as well.
5) Nadine is stuck with the wrong lover (Mike Nelson) in her vulnerable state of mind, but once she wakes up, she leaves him to be with Ed. Same thing happened to Cooper in Season 3.

On top of this, Lynch was also able to adapt Jacob's story in the book of Genesis and match Cooper's story with it.

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Interesting observations. Thank you.

I also notice that certain lines harken back to lines from the original TP's run. For example, when Mr C is in the car with Ray leaving the penitentiary and loses the trace on the car they were in, he says "that should do it."

And of course that's what Cooper says to Harry back in Season 2 when he induces Harry to void his stomach after a drunken binge.

I believe there are a couple of other lines like that in season 3 also, though I can't remember them off the top of my head. So I ask myself if there is a significant link when this occurs or is it just good writing in character consistency or . . . just serendipity?

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Dick Tremayne says in episode 16, "Got a light?"

Which is of course the line by the woodsmen in Part 8 of Season 3.

6) Sarah and Leland clearly see a surrogate daughter in Maddy (the lookalike of Laura), as a stand in for Laura's absence. Likewise in Season 3, Janey-E sees a surrogate husband in Cooper (the lookalike of Dougie), as a stand in for Dougie's absence.

I do not know what Lynch is on. The transcendental meditation he practices might be taking him to some far out places in the realm of consciousness. It's so bizarre that Cooper relives all the storylines of Season 3.

7) Mr. Tojamura (asian character) is revealed to be Catherine. In season 3, Naido (asian character) is revealed to be Diane. Previously, Pete/Cooper thought them to be gone, until a veil was lifted off.

8) Donna is unsure of who her father is in Season 2. In Part 16 of Season 3, Sunny Jim is unsure of who his real father is.

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9) In season 2, Ben Horne wishes to rewrite history by having the South win the civil war. Cooper also looks to do this in Season 3, with saving Laura.

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"I can't help but feel that several of the original cast were just there as fan service - Big Ed, Nadine . . "

It was important that karma was resolved in bardo land so they could move on. Nadine finally saw the light. Thanks to Jacoby. Team effort to be sure, but they all got there.

The blue skies shown above after the culmination of their journey implied to me an ascension to the promise land.

And Audrey, she might still in a certain level of hell (if we take the cutaway from Jacoby to Audrey as a hint).

Janey-E is presumably in 7th heaven now and so on.

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I can see what you mean. P18 is more of an epilogue.

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Sorta yeah and sorta not.

Part 17 does end with Cooper "finding Laura", which is what Leland (or the Lodge?) told him to do in Part 2. There's a bit of finality in that image. But where does that lead to? Finding Laura - what does that accomplish? We don't find out. It can't really end like this. I mean, both endings of Part 17 and Part 18 are cliffhangers. But the Part 18 ending is a bit more finished than the Part 17 ending.

Part 18 opens with Cooper is taking Laura home, only to lose her on the way. Then, it's like Cooper's journey restarts again. And Cooper is taken back to the Lodge. Scenes very similar to Part 2 occur in Part 18. A similar set of instructions are given to Cooper by the Lodge in Part 18. "Find Laura" is a command by the Lodge that's stated both in Part 2 and Part 18.

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"Finding Laura - what does that accomplish?"

Perhaps finding the missing "page" that Hawk alluded to earlier in the series?

"Then, it's like Cooper's journey restarts again."

That's my impression of the closing scene in part 18 anyway (at least for the time being) -- that Laura is communicating to Cooper that his journey is not complete, he has been down this road many times perhaps, or at least will go down many more until he gets it right.

I have the tentative guess that Twin Peaks is a journey into a bardo realm where Cooper (everyone perhaps) has to repeat cycles until he can reach the goal.

I'd say Big Ed and Norma achieved that goal. Mission accomplished as far as they're concerned.

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So...it was actually season 3 of Twin Peaks that got me into Torah/Bible study. That turned me on into Judaism and Christianity. For a very good reason:

After studying the book of Genesis, I discovered that Lynch literally copied the story of the third patriarch, Jacob. The story of Cooper in season 3 is exactly the same as the story of Jacob in Genesis. No joke. I found over 20 parallels. I'm 100% certain that Lynch copied Jacob's story into Cooper's story. The story of Genesis 26 through Genesis 38 is the same as Cooper's story in season 3. Same formula.

Twin Peaks season 3 is apparently a modern day depiction of a Bible story. Which in my opinion, is an omen for the times we live in. I'm not saying the end of the world is happening this century, but I think there's a lot of crazy things ahead of us. The pandemic is just one of them.

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Have you seen the deleted scenes from Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me? If not, I'll briefly mention that there's a scene in the Briggs household where the Major is absorbed reading excerpts from the Book of Revelation aloud.

This was one of many scenes that didn't make it into the feature film. But I always wondered where Lynch was going with that.

Btw, if you haven't scene the deleted scenes it's very worthwhile for the Twin Peaks fan: a total of an hour and a half worth of material.

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The Missing Pieces/deleted scenes of FWWM are fantastic. My favorite scene is the one when Laura does the creepy smile. I love that one. The extended scenes with Annie in the hospital and Cooper in the bathroom are also great.

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I adore the fist fight out in front of the morgue. It would be Lynch's funniest scene ever if it weren't for the even funnier arm wrestling scene from season 3!

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It's interesting you mention the "creepy smile" scene. That's the one scene in all the Missing Pieces that I thought should have been included in the film. I think it would have been very effective dropped in the right place. I can only guess that Lynch felt the scene was too much of a stand alone moment that would disrupt the narrative flow.

As for the extended scene with Annie and Cooper; that alone was worth the price of admission for me. My favorite of the lot.

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I would go as far to say that Twin Peaks season 3 is actually the unofficial Third Testament of the Bible. I think God has incarnated three times to us: 1) First as YHWH/Torah 2) Jesus Christ 3) Now in a post-holocaust world, post-modern, post-20th century fashion, God's new appearance/incarnation is the Lodge. Which I think is pretty fitting, because the Lodge gives us a spiritual reality, but it's also a spiritual reality that lacks the presence of God. God is absent, even though there's an afterlife.

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Part 17 is a deliberate mockery of simplistic superhero good vs evil narratives, in which an absurd superhero kid punches Bob (a child molesting, serial rapist, mass murdering demon) to death. It’s Lynch laying the smackdown on junk food TV and cinema.

Part 18 is what Lynch is all about - mystery, ambiguity, texture, complexity. A confounding experience that can only be understood by engaging your intuition and digging deep into yourself.

It’s mindless junk food vs art, basically.

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Part 17 does make a nice ending. But, it doesn't end, there's another ending! There's two endings!!

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Part 17 is a movie, Part 18 is a film.

17 is almost Lynch trolling, with an absurd Marvel-style superhero plot in which a kid with a magic super-strong green glove punches the ‘villain’ to death 🙄 Lynch then subverts all that nonsense with a superimposed Coop face, who seems to be ‘watching’ the show with us, it subtly undermines all the convenient closure we’re getting.

18 is where Lynch really pulls the rug from under our comforting assumptions about how narrative cinema should behave, and instead plunges us into something far more alive, somewhere we haven’t been, where we can’t get a foothold, a strange dark nightmare with no exit, where the only compass is our own intuition.

17 is 2 dimensional, 18 is 3 dimensional - you are the third dimension.


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