MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > i think the main problem with JJs Star W...

i think the main problem with JJs Star Wars (& Trek) is...

posted 4 years ago by bozo_500 (12353)
15 replies | jump to latest

.. they're kind of juvenile .. lots of fast pace whiz bang CGI action, with alot of copy & paste from previous films (copying plot lines, remaking previous films, bringing stuff back for fan pleasing reasons), abit like expensive fan films

Its like what a big budget Wars/Trek would be if a geek obsessed teenager were asked to write and direct a Wars/Trek movies (and made a Spielberg homage in Super8).. one with little experience of the 'real' world and spent most of their life in their room watching and reading geeky stuff.. but at same time a 40 something business minded corporate man (one who grew up a geek in the 70s/80s)

there is some stuff in JJs movies that's quite interesting and well done (some even verging on 'adult' filmmaking) but overall you just get that 'juvenile' feel to them that one never got with the previous SW/Trek films that feel like films directed by 'grown up' film makers (even the bad ones)..

I can just imagine what the likes of Harrison Ford and Leonard Nimoy must've thought about these movies (whod had those long careers and worked with all kinds of 'old school' filmmakers) - probably the same as what Scorsese thinks of Marvel.. theme-park rides..(altho Ford probably thought that with the OT at the time anyway).. but then at that point in their lives were obviously beyond caring and just focused on the $$$s - Ford anyway as he hadnt headlined a big movie in awhile and knew SW would be a major payday (probably the biggest of his career). Nimoy was obviously intrigued about a fresh new no expense spared approach to Trek from a 'hot' new team that focused on the original characters and was very receptive to being part of it when had refused previous Trek stuff he didn't feel was up to scratch .. but must've been let down/bewildered by some of it but probably figured it was just how movies are these days to appeal to the masses

[–] Xenopharb (617) 4 years ago

They are bad fan fiction written by people who neither understood nor cared about the universe they were writing for.

Same thing happened with Starship Troopers and John Carter.

[–] MrMick420 (1) 4 years ago

"You got something to say about the mobile infantry???"

[–] Xenopharb (617) 4 years ago

Yeah, it should have been actually, ya know, mobile in the movie.

[–] bozo_500 (12353) 4 years ago

well JJ is obviously a huge SW fan (of the old movies) and maybe that was one of the problems with the nu SW (7/9) - they're like fan films .. often these types of films need a more impartial voice otherwise they end up expensive fan films with alot of muddled stuff like they are so overwhelmed they making a movie of their passion they geek out and go total overboard on it (also see Bryan Singer with Superman Returns, Jacksons Kong, Matt Reeves with the last Apes, Tim Miller with Terminator Dark Fate, and to an extent Villeneuve with Blade Runner 2)

On the flip side e.g. Nicolas Meyer wasn't a fan of Star Trek when he took on Star Trek II and reinvented it in his own way (Hornblower/MobyDick/classic literature) and the result was the greatest Star Trek film of all (so much so they've been trying to remake it every other movie) and one of the best SF films. I guess the same could be said with JJ when he did Star Trek (he proclaimed he wasn't a fan) but he then reinvented it into Star Wars (which is what he probably wanted to do all along..like 'hey this could lead to star wars!')

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

"I guess the same could be said with JJ when he did Star Trek (he proclaimed he wasn't a fan) but he then reinvented it into Star Wars (which is what he probably wanted to do all along..like 'hey this could lead to star wars!')"

FUCK OFF. Star Trek was NEVER Star Wars. Star Trek was BETTER than Star Wars.

[–] mcqueen (1150) 3 years ago

lol

[–] JDogNight (108) 4 years ago

Star Wars is supposed to be juvenile. The originals aren't serious political pieces, they're space opera fluff with fancy special effects. Even Lucas himself says Star Wars is for 12 year olds.

This movie wasn't juvenile enough!!!

lol

[–] triplea (3577) 4 years ago

Nice try but just because something is made for the 12 year old age group doesn't automatically mean it's juvenile.

These films were paint by numbers and a misandry agenda trying to look like SW.

[–] bozo_500 (12353) 4 years ago

Initially yes that was Lucas' original intention, but the movies of the OT were so well made and classy and for everyone kids/adults it made them more than that .. which is why the PT and now the ST was such a kick in the balls to everyone expecting them to be like those

[–] Sudbrvth (0) 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Sidha108 (2392) 3 years ago

I agree, especially after recently rewatching the first two of JJ’s Star Trek films and Super 8. They feel like big-budget college student films, but not the artsy one; the ones that frat guys make at the annual week-long or 48-hour film festivals that are intended to be more showy and “hey look I’m like Steven Spielberg” than something deep and original.

[–] bozo_500 (12353) 3 years ago

his 2 Treks and Wars do feel abit like its JJ pretending to be 1980s Steven Spielberg (on crack) directing Star Trek and Star Wars (and maybe its the same with MI3 abit) .. its like heres what a Steven Spielberg Star Trek or Star Wars movie would be like if the Spielberg of the 1980s was directing now

and with those and Super8 one might imagine Spielberg to be 3 parts flattered and 1 part secretly sorta like 'jeeze cant you come up with your own style dude'

[–] Esterhowse (468) 3 years ago

".. they're kind of juvenile .. l"

Yeah I agree with that. The trouble is, Star Wars is Juvenile. Very much Godzilla movies. It is just juvenile shit that you are going to love or not.

I don't love either.

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Star Trek was originally much more cerebral than Star Wars, and had fairly interesting stories, before JJ went and dumbed both down considerably.

[–] Ace_Spade (9419) 3 years ago

I might agree with you more regarding Star Trek, which has always been aimed at a bit more of a "classic sci-fi" crowd, who are more interested in theoretical physics and things like that, and are almost de-facto older or more mature, at least, in what they are looking for out of Star Trek (ie, they might not be more mature, but when one sits down to watch Star Trek, one expects (or once expected, anyway) thoughtful science-fiction exploring social commentary or the possibilities of human achievement, whereas, when one settles in for a Star War, one is more interested in having fun and feeling imaginative - "mature" is maybe the wrong word here, but I hope you see my meaning; if I haven't been clear enough, I'll try to unpack it further).

Wow, what a ramble I just wrote...

So, yes, I understand where taking Star Trek and producing an action movie aimed at thrill-seeking teenagers feels like a step towards the juvenile, his Star Wars films aren't that far off the level of "child : grown-up" one would expect out of a Star Wars film. In fact, depending on exactly which film was being compared to which, JJ's might be more "grown-up". The Phantom Menace, for instance, relies on cardboard characters to tell a flimsy narrative about something-something trade that hasn't been thought through (feigning the maturity of a political plot has the same tone as a six-year old wearing their parents' neckties or makeup), has a child protagonist (sort of) who does "cute" things, and I don't think we need to consider Jar-Jar too long to see how "grown-up" that character is. TPM would almost certainly be measured as less "adult" than any of JJ's films.

Ironically, I enjoy JJ's first Star Trek movie, but not so much his Star Wars films, and I prefer the original Star Wars films to a great many more "grown-up" pictures. If a film is childlike, that's okay. JJ's ST wanted to be a big action movie, and that's okay. I do understand why Trek fans dislike it, though.