MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Do you wish George Lucas was still in co...

Do you wish George Lucas was still in control of Star Wars?


I recently rewatched the Star Wars prequels for the first time in over a decade and, I have to say, what I was most struck by was . . . just how good they actually are.

Like a lot of other people, I was initially critical of these films. But upon my rewatch, I realized just how inspired and ambitious George Lucas's vision was. Revenge of the Sith in particular is a fantastic film.

So it made me wonder, would Star Wars be in a better place if Lucas was still in control? I am of course predicating this on him actually making new Star Wars films.

So what I am asking, essentially, is if you think the Star Wars franchise would be in a better place today if George Lucas, and not Disney's minions, had written and directed the last three movies.

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Before TLJ was released i would of said no, but so huge is my dissapointment in TLJ i would now say yes

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I think George Lucas is detrimental to Star Wars actually. His last three efforts proved that he doesn't really know how to direct, well at least direct actors in dramatic scenes. If he had have been in charge of TLJ especially during the scenes with Rey and Kylo Ren it would have been a laugh-a-thon. The longer he has no input, the better.

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You mean Johnsons topless scene was essential to Star Wars and better then the prequels?

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Haha, yeah that was kinda silly too. Not saying that Johnson hasn't made some odd and silly choices, but they are aren't as widespread as Lucas's ones with the prequels.

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Ep1 wasnt good. Thats true. But even thinking for a second that the worst trash ever (aka TLJ) is even at any aspect better then Ep2 or Ep3 is simply Star Wars hating :) .

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Completely disagree. I don't hate Star Wars, but I am by no means a die hard fan but EP2 and 3 are horrendous.

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Hell, no. I'm glad Lucas is no longer in charge and I greatly prefer Johnson's vision to anyone else's. Lots of things in all the Star Wars films annoy the hell out of me, and The Last Jedi is no exception, but I think he's the smartest, most sophisticated writer/director to ever be involved with the franchise.

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Johnson has no vision and all he doid was destroying Star Wars. So its incredible stupid to state that Johnson is anything else then a problem.

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TLJ is one of the best reviewed Star Wars films ever made and has brought in 1.269 billion dollars with more to come. It is a smashing success by every metric that matters. (Sorry, but losers like you just don't matter now and never will.)

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Its the worst reviewed by the ones which pay for the tickets and are the base of KKs and Disneys profit. And most of the money came from presold tickets. Whom gonna prebuy tickets from now on knowing that you cant trust KK or Disneys Star Wars anymore? Happy about sitting alone at Star Wars IX at the cinema, gloryhunter?

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"Its the worst reviewed by the ones which pay for the tickets and are the base of KKs and Disneys profit."

Sorry, cupcake, but even the people who run sites like Rotten Tomatoes have publicly admitted that the scores there are absolutely unreliable sources of information about true audience reception. We live in a world where people have bragged about using social media to organize efforts to artificially drive down the scores for this movie, so your data is pure shit.

Meanwhile, the Cinemascore, done on randomly selected ordinary people who have just seen the movie and only get to vote once, is solid. And the audiences I've seen the film with have applauded every time at the end.

But it's already established that idiots like you have no interest in objective reality, so you are welcome to your delusions. I think it is great that the Star Wars franchise is shedding morons like you. The next one will still make tons of money, since the loss of a few mindless pipsqueaks won't matter.

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Great work MagneticMonopole, keep lapping up this bilge because you're told to like it. Good boy.

I literally have a thread asking for someone to defend this film and nobody has yet. Nobody. On a fucking film forum no one has one single nice thing to say about one of the year's biggest movies. How's that for objective reality? I notice all you manage to do is to insult people who disagree with you. When you're doing that you're really saying 'I am losing the argument and I'm not sure why so I will just have to pretend the random person on the internet is a stupid head so I win by default'.

Quit being a cunt, 'pipsqueak'.

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"Great work MagneticMonopole, keep lapping up this bilge because you're told to like it. Good boy."

Nobody is telling anyone to like this movie, though I seem to see a lot of losers telling people they should hate it. The fact of the matter is that Rian Johnson is a smart artist with wisdom and integrity, he did a very good (but not great) job, and I, unlike you folks, have the good taste to appreciate it. Now go cry some more.

"I literally have a thread asking for someone to defend this film and nobody has yet. Nobody."

If you could put together an intelligent, articulate argument for why the movie sucks, maybe you would deserve a response. But you people don't--you're just a bunch of idiotic cry-babies with a disturbing number of sexist pigs and racists among you. That's why I'm happy you are pissed at the movie. You don't deserve the franchise.

As I've said before, there are a lot of things that annoy me about the movie that Rian Johnson could have done better, starting with about 20 -25 wasted minutes on the casino planet. But the good far outweighs the bad, as the positive critical reception the film has received shows.

"I notice all you manage to do is to insult people who disagree with you. "

In other words, you only notice what is convenient for you to notice and ignore everything else. Got it.

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Ha, so you can't! You can't even say anything nice about it either. In fact you go on to point out one of its weaknesses but fail to mention a single positive thing about it because I don't 'deserve a response'. Save for the one you just gave of course.

I suspect you don't even like it. You just don't want to admit it. The critics have told you it's good, your friends probably have too, and when confronted with people saying they don't like it you're retreating to the logic of a child: "You're all just poopy heads!". And you do that because you have nothing else. If somebody criticises something I like I point out why I think it's great. Or I ignore them. I don't try to go 'ooo, you're just too dumb to understand why this thing is so good'. Because I'm not a cunt. Well I am but for entirely different reasons.

Demand better. Raise your standards. Don't just ignore all the terrible plot contrivances and bad writing because it looks pretty and had cool explosions n shit. Cognitive dissonance can be helpful in reconciling the impossible but the stresses of lying to yourself constantly inevitably lead to anger resulting in little outbursts like "I think it is great that the Star Wars franchise is shedding morons like you."

Just admit it. The film is awful. You know it. I know it. You'll sleep better at night.

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"Ha, so you can't! You can't even say anything nice about it either."

The film stands by itself with impressive critical acclaim. It needs no defense. I would refer you to any of the many positive reviews which contributed to its 90% fresh Rotten Tomatoes status if you want to see the consensus about what works in the film. Right now you haven't risen to the point of deserving anything more from me.

What you losers need to do, which you can't, is articulate what is wrong with it, citing evidence from the film itself and thinking rationally about that evidence. Then, and only then, would I need to come to the film's defense, assuming you don't partially or fully convince me you are right. Go ahead. Try me.

"I suspect you don't even like it. You just don't want to admit it. "

You are welcome to your tinfoil hat delusions. I prefer reality.

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So you can't. You're on a film forum and you can't find one nice thing to say about it. I don't give a fuck what some blogger thinks or how many points it's scored I wanted to know what *you* think.

Which is apparently not a lot.

Get an opinion of your own and articulate it.

Or fuck off.

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Articulate what is wrong with the film.

Or fuck off.

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I asked you first you little bitch.

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It doesn't mater who asked what first. To a rational adult (a class to which you obviously have never belonged) what matters is whether a question is valid in the first place. Your request to "defend" the film is empty and meaningless until you give valid reasons for thinking all the praise and success it has enjoyed is unjustified for some reason. But you can't give any reasons at all, can you, little pumpkin?

Okay, then fuck off it is. Case closed.

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Ok then.

TLJ is a piece of shit because MagneticMonopole likes it and he's a cunt.

Your turn now.

Try to find something nice to say about it.

Like the explosions did you?

The CGI?

Look pretty did it?

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Your failure to articulate a single thing bad about this film is a testament to the stupidity and illegitimacy of the entire backlash against it. Thank you for being a poster-boy for why this "backlash" is actually meaningless and is basically nothing more than dumb people being loud on the Internet.

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Your failure to articulate a single good thing about this film is a testament to the stupidity and illegitimacy of the blind praise for these deeply awful films. Thank you for being a poster-boy for why this "whitewash" will endeavour to ensure that we will keep getting spoon fed the same recycled Hollywood crap that demonstrates utter contempt for character, continuity and story telling.

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The fact remains that this movie was a critical and financial success. Cry all you want--you're nothing but a pathetic loser.

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Ha! What could be more pathetic than calling a stranger a 'pathetic loser'?! You're persistent though I'll give you that MM.

Shall we save a lot of time and just agree that I'm right and you're an idiot?

Or will you continue to demonstrate both of these points with your skillful prose and wit?

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Why don't we agree that you can't articulate a single thing that is faulty with this movie and never will, making you a complete embarrassment?

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Door number 2 it is!

You can't win MM... because you're only arguing against yourself. I know that somewhere in there is the realisation that you've been fooled... but I also know it's easier to fool someone than to get them to admit they've been fooled.

So you bought the bullshit. The hype. And c'mon - it has the Star Wars logo on it and everything, how were you to know? It's nothing to be ashamed of.

Admitting our failures is how we grow.

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Why don't we agree that you can't articulate a single thing that is faulty with this movie and never will, making you a complete embarrassment?

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Now you're just getting lazy!

C'mon, you can do better than that.

Ooo wait, is this a clever critique on how TFA was a total copy of Star Wars?

So you are coming around after all.

Good boy!

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PS I wonder if there's a limit to these nesting posts? Guess we'll find out...

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Do you got any facts correct at all :) . RT clearly stated that this ratings are perfectly fine. And as it was demonstrated here the ratings are even already at appr. 34% cause most of the positive ratings was from before release when people still thought that this movie will be good (and thos keep it at 49%).

And take a lookat Metacritic. Or could you just use scores with 1000 users?

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"RT clearly stated that this ratings are perfectly fine."

Wrong. The former editor in chief of the site has gone on record saying that, with first hand knowledge of how the site and its users work, he does not believe it should be taken seriously as an objective measure of audience reaction.

No Internet site of any kind that is based on anonymous user-generated content can, at any time, be taken seriously as such an objective measure, and only an idiot thinks otherwise. Let me hold you hand and explain why once again. (It will still probably go right over your head.)

1. Users can write reviews and make scores without having ever seen a film, and do so before the film has even been released. Scores for TLJ started appearing before the premier.

2. They can also make multiple accounts and vote more than once to up grade or down grade a score--people have admitted to doing this. It is cheating.

3. Groups with an agenda can organize via social media to do both 1 and 2, making their influence on ratings and reviews grotesquely and unrealistically exaggerated from the reality of what most ordinary ticket buyers think. This is has been bragged about by people who have done this very thing in the case of TLJ.

4. Internet users, who have no accountability, have a bad habit of idiotically exaggerating ratings rather than making a measured, intelligent response. When you look at ratings on the IMDB, for instance, there are a completely unreasonable number of 10's and 1's given to all kinds of movies. Those ratings should be incredibly rare. Critics, who have names and reputations to defend (as well as more academic training in film studies) and who see and think about more movies than anonymous users, are a much saner, rational pool from which to get reasonable data.

5. User ratings are self-generated by motivated users rather than random samples of the population. This fact alone disqualifies them as any reliable measure of what audiences really think.

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Any former employee states some stuff, which doenst have anything to do with their recent statement that thos figures are perfectly fine. And BTW Thos figures are even way worse cause this movie only reaches 49% of the early higher votes. Now this movie is more at the high 30% like at most other popular sites (for example MetaCritics).

Is it that hard to löive with the simle facts that almost anybody beside you hates that movie?

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"Any former employee states some stuff, which doenst have anything to do with their recent statement that thos figures are perfectly fine."

They made no such statement. All they did was deny that they are the victims of bot attacks, which is a dubious claim by itself.

I note with great satisfaction and no surprise that you were unable to address all the other reasons given for why user generated scores are garbage. Reality just isn't your thing, is it?

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I agree, there's definitely some silly stuff in TLJ but people seem to be forgetting that there was dumb crap in the original films as well. I have no issue with the direction Johnson has taken the film, does that mean that his film was perfect? Hell no, but there was a lot more consistency with the story telling here than there was in the prequels.

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I think he should have continued controlling the story at a high level by writing the story treatments and plot outlines, but leave the finer details and directing to others. He actually wrote treatments for this sequel trilogy, but Disney/Abrams/Johnson largely ignored them.

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What if it's all or nothing? He exercises prequel-level control or none at all?

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No, but I wish Gary Kurtz was.

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I think the finest two films are the first two. I love Return of the Jedi dearly, but I think the fractures are sorta creeping in at that point. I think Gary Kurtz, as a producer, was equal to Lucas as a writer-director-creator. In other words: Lucas would come up with "Adventures of Luke Starkiller, as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars", and Gary Kurtz would say, "Too much," and get Lucas to revise.

Lucas is, I think quite obviously, a gifted and talented storyteller. He has a lot of innate ability and a tonne of experience. But film isn't the work of one, singular artist, it's the work of many, many, many people. Over the years, I think George Lucas had fewer and fewer people around who would (or could?) tell him, "No," and as a result, his vivid, brilliant imagination carries him too far away from the keen-edged storytelling of the first couple of films.

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The short answer would be yes.


😎

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[deleted]

All this "What if" games are obsolete now. Disney and KK destroyed the franchise for any further movies. No matter what KK/Disney will still release its not a Star Wars movie anymore.

Only good thing is that we still have the OT and the prequels (yes, beside Jar Jar and Metochlorian thos were good movies. Even the love story was fine, cause he is a Jedi (educated to have no emotion at all) and she was educated by a strict ceremonial. So yes, indeed they talk land act ike 12 year old when they start their love story. Everything else would be simply stupid). Disney could do with the dead Star Wars corpse what ever they like to do.

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