Not looking good


Well, I'm back. It is nice to see this discussion board at least attempt to revive the imdb boards. I think it is quite pathetic they shut it down in the first place just because some people trolled and some people didn't like it. But here I am giving this MC.org a shot.

Anyway, based on my feeling toward Episode VII (which those that remember will know I think it is arguably one of the worst big budget movies ever made) after viewing the Episode VIII trailer I do not have a good feeling about the film.

I am already skeptical because of how bad the plot of the force awakens was the follow up film would be struggling to fill in gaps right off the bat. In addition to that, I think the title the last jedi is as stupid sounding as The force awakens.

But now the trailer is too much like the force awakens trailer. To much emphases on Rey, whom is a character I absolutely loath. And overall way too reminiscent of The Empire Strikes Back.

Okay, now let's see how this goes.

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Yeah, all we can do is see how it goes, we can't even make an educated guess about what we'll see next at this point. Still, R1 was good enough to make me quite hopeful, and to make me want to see more new Disney Star Wars!

But if you can't stand Rey, I think you're SOL. She's front and center, dude.

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You are right of course, it is impossible to know for certain what the quality will be. I too thought R1 was pretty good. infinitely better than TFA IMO. I thought it better than any of the prequels and about equal with ROTJ, which is quite impressive.

"But if you can't stand Rey, I think you're SOL. She's front and center, dude."

Yeah that is my biggest fear. I see her as by far the worst character in Star Wars and one of the worst in Cinema history. Yes even worse than Jar Jar because at least Jar Jar was not, as you said "front and center". The amount of focus and "spotlight stealing" given to Rey is to an absurd level. I have said previously only extremely shallow or narcissistic people could find such a character interesting or compelling.

I might be SOL. there are a few directions they can go with her that can make the remaining films interesting. like #1 significantly decrease video game like power boosts she gets. And maybe have her turn evil, it would make sense; given the ease at which she obtained such great power it is likely she would abuse such power.

But I find that unlikely to happen. and the trailer does not give a sense they will be taking this one into any kind of interesting direction.

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FYI I find Rey a charming and engaging character, and I'm going to be polite and not say what I think about the people who have made a hobby about hating on her (or saying she's "spotlight stealing" instead of accepting her as The Hero). Sure, some of the things she's done strain the bounds of believability, but pushing those particular boundaries has been part of Star Wars from the beginning, and is in fact part of the series' charm!

I hope they can maintain the things I like about Rey in the sequels to come. She did seem like a sympathetic and likeable real person when we first met her, but maintaining that likeability while going from underdog to superhero is more of a challenge than some people realize. I can't say Mark Hammill was 100% successful at staying relatable the original trilogy, but if I go into that then I'll get started on all the other flaws in ROTJ and nobody wants that All I can say now is that Ridley seems to be a good actress, so maybe she'll carry it off, but no young actor is so good they can overcome bad writing.

So that brings me back to "we'll see".

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"FYI I find Rey a charming and engaging character, "

I really find this baffling a bit. since you're being polite I will try to be too. but what is engaging about her character, she is good at everything without effort and overcomes all obstacles easily. I would think most would find that boring. Why is she "charming"? I found her rather annoying and way too 'self-aware', but that was not just on her though; most actors around her were too self aware for their roles too. Like they all were acting like they knew they were on camera. I find that for most like you, they did not find the character charming and engaging; but the actress they found that way and they attributed the actresses characteristics into the character. This is why I think her performance was god awful. Unlike Adam Driver, whom (though I thought the character terrible) I found to be the only actor in the film that did an actual good job acting.

"not say what I think about the people who have made a hobby about hating on her (or saying she's "spotlight stealing" instead of accepting her as The Hero). "

You don't need to say anything, you "better than thou" comment you use here says it all. This suggest you see anyone that has any kind of criticism of the character, no matter how fair or legitamet is by default a 'hater' and thus inferior to you and your mighty opinion. for one claiming to be polite, you are doing a pretentiously bad job of it.

"Sure, some of the things she's done strain the bounds of believability, but pushing those particular boundaries has been part of Star Wars from the beginning, and is in fact part of the series' charm!"

She does not push boundaries though, the character ignores them. Star Wars is not about "believability" but the fantasy can only stretch so far before it becomes a mockery of itself. This would be absolutely fine if they gave a plausible explanation. But instead they leave it a mystery to be answer "at another time." Which makes her character totally unacceptable within the TFA film itself. This would be the equilivant to a new Matrix movie in which a character can do all the things Neo could do and more but without the background story being the one and without even going through the 'training' or even being unplugged form the matrix. Can you see how absurd that would be. That is what Rey does to the 'rules' of star wars.

"I hope they can maintain the things I like about Rey ..."

Sympathetic and likeable? I disagree. She was just too nice, charming, posh, agreeable, polite, civilized etc. for the background she was given. it made her unrealistic and hard to relate to. She in no way behaved like a "real person" given her upbringing and environment. She behaved like a person that had a family and good sheltered education until her late teens. That is not the background she was given though. Also, she was never really an 'underdog' outside her scavenging background she is never shown to struggle with anything she can't overcome with relative ease. She goes from zero to hero in a split second. again making her very hard to relate to or route for.

" I can't say Mark Hammill was 100% successful at staying relatable the original trilogy, but if I go into that then I'll get started on all the other flaws in ROTJ and nobody wants that All I can say now is that Ridley seems to be a good actress, so maybe she'll carry it off, but no young actor is so good they can overcome bad writing."

I don't know if I agree with you assessment of Mark Hammill in the OT. of the many flaws of ROTJ the character of Luke was not really one of them. I also do not agree with the claim that Ridley seems to be a good actress. granted the only thing I have seen her in is TFA, so outside this performance she may be good, but her performance her I thought was god awful. I found her facial expressions and body language often did not match the suggested mood of the character and came across and awkward. I found her too self aware, like she never forgot she was on camera (granted most other actors in TFA had this problem too). She seemed to switch from an odd 'bewildered look' to a 'deer in the head lights look'. The worse was some of her scenes with Han in which she just has some weird look to her face that in no way looked natural when listening to a 'legendary' mentor. Also She used the 'grit teeth' look that is becoming more and more common in actions scenes. Look at her action scenes again, the entire time she is bearing her teeth like a dog. Now go watch some actual fight or real battle footage and tell me if anyone looks like that.

Your last comment I do agree with though. It would be very unlikely, no matter how talented, a younger less experienced actor will overcome bad writing and TFA had a lot of that.

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I admit that the trailer was a little underwhelming but I did LOVE hearing Luke's voice again. That alone got me excited to see what's coming next! 😀

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Have you seen any of his interviews or panels, that Mark Hamill has done i mean? he seems totally disappointed with what they chose to do with his character. That is another sign this is not going to go well. Just hearing Luke is not enough for me when the actor states he "fundamentally disagrees" with the direction of that character.

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I did see many of the star wars celebration interviews and those comments do worry me. Mark is as big of a fan of Luke as any of us are. You can tell he has the same mindset of many of us, especially when he was talking about the lightsaber vibrating in the snow and how he thought it was going to fly into the hands of Luke and was shocked that it went to Rey. I felt like he really understands how us fans feel about Luke so I totally get what you're saying. I'm trying to stay optimistic until we get a full length trailer. Literally nothing happens in the teaser so I'm cautiously holding my judgement for now. Maybe Mark is just trying to cause trouble (right, right??). Wouldn't be a first! 😉

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I am not optimistic. 1. the teaser is too similar to TFA's for comfort. 2. Hamill does not seem to 'like' it. 3. TFA made so much money being a rehash, and has so many stupid people ignoring all the valid criticism, they will likely just repeat what they did the first time.

Sorry if I seem 'tense' I have just been arguing with such an idiot on this discussion board on another thread. The type of asshole that pretends Luke and Rey are comparable and therefore any criticism of Rey or TFA is a double standard. This shit is so irritating.

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Yeah the trailer gives me the impression that the story is more 'insert what key surveyed demographics identified as being core to the Star Wars(tm) brand' at random with little cohesion or explanation as well as the same kathleen kennedy 'twist' as found in tfa.

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"the story is more 'insert what key surveyed demographics identified as being core to the Star Wars(tm) brand' at random with little cohesion or explanation as well as the same kathleen kennedy 'twist' as found in tfa."

That is exactly what I felt about it. Great way of wording it.

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This better be a good movie, or I will reject Disneys post ROTJ canon. If they turn Luke into some sort of dark Jedi and everything he fought against in the classic trilogy, forget it.

We went from the Return of the Jedi after they've been extinct for 23 years, to the Force Awakening (whatever the frack that means) the Empire resurgent, the New Republic weak, the Resistance being around for no stupid reason--they are New Republic, and 5 planets destroyed, killing 20 billion, to the Last Jedi.... what? Luke talking about the Jedi should be removed or whatever... umm what?

The worst thing about Ep7 was taking an entire movie to reunite with Luke, and then he doesn't say anything, so the first words we hear him say is in the trailers for the next movie... so annoying.

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"everything he fought against in the classic trilogy, forget it. "

TFA kind of already did that even without turning him into some kind of "dark jedi". Just by actively not being present in the film they ruin the credibility of the character. I can't see coming up with an excuse that I would accept, do you?

"to the Last Jedi.... what? Luke talking about the Jedi should be removed or whatever... umm what?"

Yup, same thing I thought. Another thing about the trailer that is not giving me a positive outlook.

"The worst thing about Ep7 was taking an entire movie to reunite with Luke, and then he doesn't say anything, so the first words we hear him say is in the trailers for the next movie... so annoying."

While that was bad, it is so not the worst thing about Ep7. MaRey Sue was the worst, rehashed plot was 2nd worst, poor characterizations (for returning characters and Finn, Phasma, Kylo, Hux, Poe) was third worse; especially for Finn whom in no way behaved like an indoctrinated soldier trying to break free and was every bit as bad as Jar Jar Binks instead. 4th worse was the lack of plot development and leaving almost everything as a 'mystery box'(damn you JJ Abrams for this retarded gimmick he seems to have a fetish for). 5th worse was pacing and editing, everything rushed to get to the next seen(very much I expect like JJ's sexual exploits, no idea what he is doing so he just rushes through it as fast a possible). 6th worse was underwhelming musical score, 7th worse was Luke(making the entire plot about finding him, forgetting that halfway through and turning it into destroy starkiller, remember last minute and throwing him in there on a "literal cliffhanger" with some more bad acting by Daisy Ridley staring awkwardly at him and niether saying anything.

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"We went from the Return of the Jedi after they've been extinct for 23 years, to the Force Awakening (whatever the frack that means) the Empire resurgent, the New Republic weak, the Resistance being around for no stupid reason--they are New Republic, and 5 planets destroyed, killing 20 billion, to the Last Jedi.... what?"



This is why Disney shouldn't be allowed to make Star Wars movies, they have no soul.

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agreed, it is such a shame that Lucas sold the rights to them. Probably because they were the only ones with enough money to buy it and Lucas was 'promised' creative decisions on the films but then was betrayed and forced out.

Never thought I would appreciate the prequels but look what we have come to. f**k disney.

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Only Tarantino can make Tarantino movies and only Lucas can make Star Wars movies, this is just a immovable fact. I still don't know what George was thinking, he should have at least should have put Spielberg as an executor over his property to make sure it was handled right. I still think though that George thought they were going to use his ideas for the rest of the trilogy.

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" I still think though that George thought they were going to use his ideas for the rest of the trilogy."

Yeah I suspect that. I think everyone involved expected the original creator to be involved somehow. All the interviews with Lucas and Hamill greatly suggest they were lead to believe that. But instead as soon as disney had the rights they forced George out and used none of his ideas. Alas, what could have been.

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I sure would have loved to know what George's original story was for 7, 8, 9. My guess is Disney took some ideas they liked and threw out the others, who really knows.

Heck... at this point I would have preferred that 'The Force Awakens' be about an invading force from outside the Star Wars galaxy (or even the Unknown Regions) attacking and taking over planets of the 40 year old New Republic, taking them completely by surprise.

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"Heck... at this point I would have preferred that 'The Force Awakens' be about an invading force from outside the Star Wars galaxy (or even the Unknown Regions) attacking and taking over planets of the 40 year old New Republic, taking them completely by surprise."

I think most rational people, that are not blinded by nostalgia or taken in by the lazy pandering of TFA, would prefer just about anything to what we got in that movie; including nonexistence.

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It's hard to imagine him writing any of those characters besides maybe maz. For all his flaws, George would not have abandoned the idea that stormtroopers were clones, or made Han Solo simply revert to being a smuggler again.

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Why would anyone expect this movie to be good?

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I'm hoping. The trailer looks promising, but most do. So it may actually pull off a dark enchanting entry.

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Saviodium - which films in the Star Wars franchise do you love?

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I love. ANH and ESB

I like. ROTJ and ROTS *EDIT I forgot to mention Rogue One which I did like.*

I dislike but find new appreciation for. TPM and AOTC

I loath with every fiber of my being. TFA

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Hmm unfortunately it appears this forum just does not have the type of traffic that imdb offered. maybe it will build over time. the discussion boards were a great place to kill time and work on debate skills. But it only works if many are participating.

I am disappointed but hopefully it will pick up more in the future.

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I sure it will. I loved fan theories, trivia and. Upcommung releases. People be patient. It has potential.

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Thanks for the vote of confidence. I agree it will require patients, my fear though is that trolls and retards will migrate here first and be a majority till more level headed people can discuss films and television. On another thread I am dealing with such a either troll or retard. It makes reasonable discussion difficult. and I am so stubborn that I can't let such an idiot get the last word. lol

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I hear ya. That nonesense gets old. How did that start?

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user keelia was defending Rey by saying it is a double standard to criticize the character because Luke was just as amazing at everything. if you want to see the discussion it is under the thread titled: "Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official trailer."

Granted at times I loose my patient with them but when they make as ridiculous points as this person does it is hard to maintain a calm demeanor.

If you are interested you can read the comments, there are a lot (often times I exceeded the character limit), and judge for yourself.

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I know. I heard it before. I think Luke had some training. Let me see the argument.

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I was not impressed by the trailer.
I hate the emphasis on Rey, Finn, and Poe. None of them really have a point. And why does Rey even need training when she's already accomplished everything? And why is Rey even necessary?
I hate how they keep doing this thing with Luke and Leia where we only see their silhouettes or shadows. This stupid teasing is stupid.
And I hate how Luke talks about the Jedi's time to end. Fuck that. We didn't even get a New Jedi Order at all. Just one that got rebuilt and purged again offscreen. And I'll bet that by the end of the IX, they'll be metaphorically heralding the Return of the Jedi.....again.

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Agree on all points.

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