MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015) Discussion > For the simple minded: The Rey-bashing "...

For the simple minded: The Rey-bashing "Mary Sue" crowd in a nutshell


As decades of unrealistic, super-powered-yet-usually-human male characters are released in movies:

Boy: "Yay! He is so awesome! I love James Bond, I love John McClane, I love Bruce Wayne, I love Tony Stark, I love Luke Skywalker, I love Harry Potter, I love... (insert any number of highly popular male hero characters here, there are plenty)."

After a major series, Star Wars, gets a female main character, who is literally super-powered just like her predecessors, and not exactly human:

Boy (now grumpy, with arms crossed): "What is this girl-power bull****??? I'm gonna go online and complain for YEARS about her."

Summary complete.

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So, what about the women that also complain about Rey?

What of the many people that have enjoyed female leads in films for years, that also have a problem with Rey?

Why do people forget Leia was a main character of the OT?

Why stereotype?

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"So, what about the women that also complain about Rey?"

If this doesn't apply to someone, then they will recognize that it doesn't apply to them, male or female. But if someone finds that this topic upsets or offends them, then they are probably recognizing that it applies to them.

"What of the many people that have enjoyed female leads in films for years, that also have a problem with Rey?"

I knew this card would be played in the first response. How can I ever possibly make a racist statement, I have two black friends!

Of course, the difference with Star Wars is that it is a traditionally male-dominated series, even though each trilogy has a separate main character.

"Why do people forget Leia was a main character of the OT?"

There is a difference between "a" main character, and "the" main character. Prequels: Anakin. OT: Luke. Sequel trilogy: Rey.

The main thrust here, though, is the highly likely theory that this conversation would not exist if Rey was Ray, a male character, but otherwise identical. There would be no "Marty Stu" complaint getting parroted back and forth.

Also, the awkwardly crafted "Marty Stu" term is still derived straight from Mary Sue, which came first, because that entire "Sue/Stu" discussion began with criticism of overpowered females.

Overpowered males were simply accepted as being stylized fiction. Females are more likely to be required to be more "justified" in stylized fiction.

It's a very basic conversation, and easy to see. It's no different from Barack Obama's unprecedented years of "birth certificate conspiracies" because some people just couldn't accept that he was American.

"Why stereotype?"

The "Mary Sue" crowd even use a term in their argument, the term "Mary Sue," that highlights Rey's GENDER.

Isn't that obvious enough?

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lol I am merely pointing out you are generalizing in your comment and many people do not fit your stereotype of Rey bashers. You said nothing here that changes this. Rey is just character, because she is female does not mean she is above criticism. And you don't have to look far to find the counter to your Rey was Ray comment..you merely have to look at Anakin. If you think people let his superpower/Jesus birth pass without comment because he was male you must have been either not born yet/too young or been sleeping under a rock when the PT came out.

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Great post, Frogarama. Sums the situation up perfectly.

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Pretty much. Rey kicks ass ;)👍🏼

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LOL! Got it in one!

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FYI, "girl power bull****" was a quote from this same general discussion on IMDb last year. I didn't just pull that out of the air.

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Oh, it's been used again. And again, and again.

As if to imply that something being PC means it's not entertaining, or financially rewarding for the filmmakers. That's something the hater fanboys refuse to admit, that diverse casting is a moneymaker! Why pander to the white faboys when they'll buy ticket no matter what?

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There are dozens of posts on this board alone that provide substantive criticism of the character in the context of the rules of the fictional world she inhabits. They (the MALE writers) shortcutted all of it for a cheap and easy payoff. It's hysterical to me that their hackery gets so much cover because their protagonist was a girl.

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You could make Rey a male for all I care and I would still hate her and he would still be a Mary (or Marty) Sue.

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Yeah but you forgot to put the prequels into the equation: THOSE movies are the real problem of the SW fan-base for the past 2 decades.

Had the prequels never been made we wouldn't have this problem now because prequel lovers would not exist and the world would be a much merrier place.

Just like it was before the prequels.

Everything was great up until the '90s : everybody was happy making money off the internet etc and then the prequels got released and BOOM ! First 9/11 happened then the economic crisis and everything went to sh!t and now everyone is broke and miserable.

All because of the prequels.

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It also happened to involve one of the nerdiest man-child movie series ever... They can no longer be eternal boys, now they are... girls?!

The reaction should have been expected...

The criticism of characters being flawless, idealised and such is valid and it is a common thing with stories and movies that try to portray previously ignored or maligned groups... the trope of using such characters is lazy and ironically is yet another way to separate and "otherise" those groups... However, in the StarWars context, where all the previous main characters were idealised and flawless, it just seems like an excuse... because someone, yet again, has spoilt the StarWars eternal boy/child fantasy, but in a material way... ;)

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