MovieChat Forums > Ghost in the Shell (2017) Discussion > To the folks who aren't bothered by whit...

To the folks who aren't bothered by whitewashing...


Are you bothered by blackwashing? Or any other kind of 'washing'? I'm curious because I've noticed that every time the topic of whitewashing comes up, there are inevitably folks who will say 'who cares, get over it,' but I hardly see those same sentiments from people when white characters are turned into a different race. For example, there were similar complaints when the character of Rue from The Hunger Games was played by Amandla Stenberg, a biracial actress. And a few folks (white, I'm presuming) were upset when Idris Elba played Heimdall from the Thor and Avengers movies. Obviously, it's not necessarily the same people making these complaints, but I'm curious to hear what you all think. If whitewashing is okay, are other kinds of 'washing' ok? Would you accept a non-white James Bond? Perhaps a reboot of the Bourne series with a black guy?

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I don't like this term of "washing", but either way, to me it's only a problem with you cast a certain (usually main) character in a way that doesn't fit the source material, or try to justify in some silly political way. And that's the crux of the problem, imo. That people try to push for racial recasts not because they feel a certain person is better for the role, but just "because". And does this issue ever come up in any other country's movie industry?

Even though I like casting to stick as closely as possible to the original, if it doesn't hurt the plot then I can only shrug at it.
There's also the component of being a fan of the original material. When you really like something the way it is, you want it preserved that way.

In the case of Ghost in the Shell, I didn't mind ScarJo's casting because Major has a synthetic body. It can be anything.
I would've preferred a taller actress though, since Scarlett ends up looking kinda stocky to me.
My bottom line for this movie - didn't see a point in having it remade. The anime film is great and still holds up, imo.
I'm not a fan of live action adaptions of animations in general.

Rue - I've never read the books but she was a minor character and it didn't affect the plot, so who cares?
Same with Heimdall. I haven't read any of the comics. Idris Elba did a great job.

When you ask to change an established and iconic character like James Bond, you rattle its whole history.
If you choose to go with "agent 007" being a title rather than an individual person, I don't personally see the problem.
I think people just really like to keep the characters they like the way they were. I also think that if you wanna reboot, just do it under a new name and create a new character.

Some examples of my own (that I can think of right now)-

Hermoine in the musical - she was my favorite in the book series, but it's fine with me if they wanna cast a black actress. The point of contention here was J.K Rowling claiming Hermoine was black all along, which is clearly false, pointless and silly of her to do.

The Human Torch in the Fantastic 4 - I didn't see a problem with the casting, personally. He's a good actor and he fit with the other kids just fine. I don't remember if there was much buzz about it. To me it was more of an "oh, they're doing it again lol".

Jimmy Olsen in the Supergirl reboot - this one I did mind. Not because he's a black guy, but because he's a super buff, hot guy. It just doesn't fit with the way the original character was (a small, nerdy ginger).

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I believe "*washing" in some contexts is OK, or even beneficial. I see nothing wrong with taking show or movie from another country, and re-localizing it for the purpose of making the characters/story more relatable for the target audience. In these cases, it's generally assumed that most of the target audience hasn't seen or heard of the source material before; or it isn't palatable for the target audience because of language barriers and things like that.

*washing where actors are portrayed as a race that is not their own is a little bit offensive. But, I don't think this is done very much anymore.

In some cases, I find *washing in remakes, such as Annie and Karate Kid, too forced, and cheesy.

In the case of this movie, I think their target audience were Americans who have never seen the original anime. BUT, because they didn't re-localize the setting, or offer some kind of explanation for the apparent western invasion of Japan, it was a bit confusing, and not very effective.

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I'm not bothered by either direction. I think the only time it really matters is when a real, known person is being portrayed onscreen (this includes stuff like the Egyptians/Moses being played by a bunch of white people). Then it works best to pick an actor the same race, age and gender, not to mention resembling the actual person.

However, it still doesn't "bother" me, ever. I barely even notice.

I think a different color Bond would be great. Hell, I think a female Bond would be great. Thor/Hemsworth would make a better Bond love interest than his role as the eye-candy secretary in Ghostbusters.

=)

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Bond is a dark haired skinny white british guy... how would making HIM a female or different race help forward anything that is called "Bond"? Seems a completely senseless move, TO ME. What "benefit" do you see in that, that would make it great?

Society is getting weird.

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"What "benefit" do you see in that, that would make it great?"

A little something called variety. There is no "benefit" to keeping him a white male (unless you count familiarity and comfort for those who don't like change).

Bond is less of a specific character, and more of a concept. He doesn't even have an age, or an era he works in, or else he'd be a very old man in our modern age.

I'd love to see a suave debonair female who beds men the way the male Bonds do with women. For guys who can't see themselves as a secret agent, it may be a whole new fantasy to think of being wooed by a sexy female secret agent.

Too bad Brie Larsen isn't British, she'd make a great Bond. Charlize Theron would have been good too, but Atomic Blonde is kind of like her version of Bond (Atomic Bond, ha).

=)

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I understand your point of view now, respect it and thank you for it. This does show me the issue with most movies these days though: Lack of originality: let's remold something like Bond into no longer being bond, but call it bond. Originality says "lets make something new". For your needs, forget bond and enjoy Atomic Blond. (I have not seen it yet, but hope to) Why not make something totally different and new like that? Why take something that works great as is, and mess it up?

Rather than think "how can we take an idea someone already made and change it to have more VARIETY?" just start with the variety from the start? Something new.

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I agree with you fully right there, and frankly I would not shed a single tear if the Bond franchise was shut down. I wish I'd made it to Atomic Blonde yesterday, I was planning to see it but got a bit busy dealing with my car. Next weekend.

Good talk, always nice to have a pleasant exchange of ideas.

-Froggy

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Gee I think everyone is really missing the point here. In which it is this: the Bond movies really suck. Yep, every single one of them.

Even if Bond’s racial heritage was important (which it’s not), it’s not like this camp B grade series of movies are a protected species.

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Everybody has opinons. BOND has been the longest running movie staple for 50+ years now. Some people are entertained by the sillyness of it all. I get that. I even enjoy some of them.

Per INTERNET S.O.P., I'm sure we got all off track of the white washing thing.

Anyway, I just wish they'd stop CHANGING stuff up just for diversity sake, and just call it something new instead.

Instead of remaking STAR WARS, but making Luke an African female living in the 1800s American old west, why not just make an original film about that and leave STAR WARS completely out of it? (jsut a made up example of how it looks to some of us) But NoooOOOOOoooo, they gotta attach to a name brand, AND diversify for diversify sake.

Lets make teh next Superman a Super FROG instead. Variety!
Lets make another Ghost busters, but have them be Japanese school girls with invisibility power. Variety!
Lets make a new Godzilla movie, but instead, have Godzilla be a mouse that runs super fast. VARIETY!

See where I'm going with this?

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i'm not offended by any race/color/creed whatever, and don't care about white washing: whoever makes the movie, make it however you want.

BUT, I, personally, am not a fan of color or gender swapping on known characters. Not AGAINST any race or anything, it just makes no logical sense to me: SuperMan was a white guy in the original comic, so that is what/who is should always be. making superman into a black or latino woman justt seems stupid and cash grabby to me. Not following super hero characters enough to know who is trading where, so I don't care about that either. BUT, if I was a fan of character "X" and they changed the race or gender, well, that would seem silly and stupid to me.

So, white washing, I don't care. Would I have rather seen proper race in GITS live remake? Sure, but maybe that movie would have gotten made due to lack of funding without a very well known actress in it. I didn't see it for Scarlett, I saw it for the plot, but I bet many DID see it for Scarlett.

Making the ghosts busters all women... why, again?? Will NEVER see that mess.

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Interestingly, Japanese audiences and the Japanese creators of the manga and anime did not even notice the "whitewashed" casting, as they have no equivalent to divisive American racial politics.

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Really? How did you hear this?

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Asians in general don't really care about whitewashing or blackwashing etc. I should know, cause I'm an Asian. Here, movies are not taken very seriously politically. At least, not as seriously as in the US. For many of us, they are entertainment products only.

That said, Far East Asians have a different problem about this. Japan, and Japanese in general, is not exactly the most favorite country among the Chinese and Koreans. It's a thing, y'know. Because of how things happened in WW2.

Now, I understand why Ghost in the Shell has to be "whitewashed." It's because they were betting on the larger Asian market (along with USA market, of course) but probably more into China. Because China is a massively hot market of Hollywood movies nowadays.

So having a Japanese lead would probably, maybe, make the movie less accepted in China (and Korea.) By casting a very popular white actress it would aleviate this worry. And the Japanese also don't really care about race anyway, so it seemed like a win-win solution by the producers. Like it or not, it looks like a safer bet at the time.

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That's a very interesting perspective, and I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it.

I often hear about movies that don't do well in China specifically because of how the Japanese are portrayed or certain Japanese actors cast in the role (the movie Shanghai with John Cusack is a good example of this).

In that regard, I suppose it was Hollywood trying to play it safe and attempt to cash-grab from China with the casting of Scarlett Johansson.

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I hate how Tom Sawyer tricked people into whitewashing. He's a sly one!

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I'm Asian-American, and here's my take: I saw the film the night it opened, and very much enjoyed it. Scarjo did a good job. As for her appearance - I would've cast a taller, more menacing-looking actress, like Mackenzie Davis (who is now BUFF). I don't care if she's white since I've always thought anime characters look Caucasian.

As for other types of "washing," I've no desire to see a brown James Bond nor a brown Captain America. And I think all Asgardians should be white, for the same reason all Wakandans should be black. Seeing black and Asian characters in Asgard didn't sit well with me.

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right. if it is all fine and dandy, no one should care if we make Wakandans into asians, or white guys for the next movie, right? Ands make a WONDER MAN movie as well, or maybe WONDER TRANS.... Yeah, that would sell a lot of tickets... to the .05 percent of the movie going audience... GOOD BUSINESS decision! "Go woke, go broke" :D :D :D :D :D

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The deception is the various shades of grey,

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