This Is The Zodiac Speaking
Possibly the Best Killer of All-Time.
shareNever identified.
shareThe best are never caught.
shareIndeed.
shareBut he identified himself.
Taunting the law with coded messages that to this day advanced technology has never discovered.
Nothing short of genius.
I don't think you know enough about the case, I recommend that you dig deeper and your hero worship will melt away bit by bit
Many people nowadays believe that his unsolved ciphers were actually just gibberish. His first cipher, the one that was easily solved by a couple of school teachers, was legit
But it's believed that the rest were nonsense. A cipher can only be solved if it has a solution. If it's just a bunch of random symbols with no meaning then obviously they will remain unsolved. Some think that he passed off phony ciphers because it wounded his ego that his first one was solved so easily. So he wouldn't be a genius, just another insecure serial killer with a fragile ego (which are a dime a dozen)
Probably his most clever moves were his acts of misdirection. Like the ciphers, like the nicknames. But there were other serial killers who took bolder risk and racked up much higher body counts AND still got away with it. Zodiac is not the "best" killer by almost any metric. He killed few in just about the safest way possible (shooting from a distance) and then quit after a few years. He is basically a slightly more clever, luckier Son of Sam
Most likely he was just a very insecure person who really wanted attention. Let's not make a big deal about him getting away with it. Police bungle investigations ALL the time and it was much easier to get away with a crime in the 60s
I dont think so. If he is giving away evidence and calling news and sending letters than he isnt trying to hide or misdirect anything. Though it makes sense what you said about breaking cyphers the fact the he did send one that “wasnt” easily solved means that they did have a code and if he really didnt want to get caught he wouldnt have sent anymore. There must be some elaborate code for it to be broken. If you see the letters you can see the patterns and a code behind it.
Which killers are you talking about?
Still, there is evidence today that advanced technology hasnt figured out.
Like I said, the first one was solved quickly and easily. The ones that came after were the ones that were never solved
So some people believe this: he had an amateur-level understanding of cryptography and when his cipher got easily solved it hurt his fragile psychopath ego. So he made a bunch of fake ones that could never be solved because they had no solution. Then people would marvel at the difficulty of his ciphers when in reality they were phony
The fact that one had a solution does not prove that they all did
Well, most serial killers, I would say, took bigger risks. Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer, etc. because they would kidnap, rape mutilate, etc. which means leaving behind more evidence and taking more time. Guys like Gary Ridgway and Samuel Little had the highest body counts
The difference between these guys and Zodiac is that Zodiac was clearly driven by the need for attention. All of these guys were true sickos: they would commit rape, necrophilia, etc. Zodiac doesn't seem to have had those kinds of sexual motives
So he falls under the class of serial killers like Son of Sam, whose primary motive was simply to kill in the least conspicuous way possible. Son of Sam racked up a similar body count as Zodiac and also taunted the police with creepy letters. Son of Sam (David Berkowitz) got caught, but he was super sloppy. He didn't wear a mask, he literally attacked a woman w/ a knife and she got away and the police did not look into him. He only got caught because of luck: he parked somewhere and got a ticket
So Zodiac was BARELY more lethal than a total moron like Son of Sam. I think at least 3 or Zodiac's intended victims survived after he shot them. He was smart enough to wear a mask and not leave DNA, but that hardly makes him a criminal mastermind
It was not quickly solved. It took a week and forensic couldnt solved it. They publicised it in the newspaper and it wasnt till a family solved it did they figured it out though it wasn’t completely solved.
Given that he purposely gaved the first cyper and continued to do so with evidence meant they were solvable. A fearful individual wouldve just stopped sending them to begin with or not send them at all.
I think part of his game was to get caught seeing how killing wasnt enough. Taunting was part of his Master skill. If he was such an amateur why was he never caught or solved when everyone else failed?
The letters did have a solution because there was a pattern, there was also other evidence that was part of the solution. Some have claimed to figure it out but I dont think it’s official.
Those guys got caught and were also inferior. Rape, torture, goes beyond collecting souls and falls under adolescent fantasies. Massive kill counts have no meaning if deaths there is no reverence.
All those guys you mentioned were caught defeating your earlier statement and little among others mostly killed women and were of weak character.
Son Of Sam falls short. He got caught, and killed cause he was told to. Went whippy. You said it, he was also sloppy and not that good or impressive.
The letters do show a level of complicity, the fact that he did send evidence and taunted police shows a level of honor, and he did call the news leaving his raw actual voice. No one would ever do that and shouldve got caught on that alone.
Ive been researching it but dont like giving in to too much opinions they tend to cloud reality. The facts are there and are impressive enough without any outside influence. Lets say he did have a chip on his shoulder what self respecting under dog wouldnt? and causing panic is a display of power.
You're both right and both wrong. Following cyphers were probably impossible gibberish. However Zodiac was never caught which yes means he was impressively competent and/or impressively lucky.
shareI only bring these points up because when I had first seen the movie I was also left w/ the impression that the Zodiac had to have been very clever. I was fascinated w/ him and decided to read more into the case
But the more I learned about all of the details of the case, the more I began to realize that Zodiac was probably just a guy with a chip on his shoulder and scaring the public made him feel special. He happened to be active in a time where surveillance cameras weren't in every street corner and forensics sucked
And the showmanship makes for a great story, but that's all it is. There was nothing particularly clever about his crimes. In fact, i think that's why he stopped after such few victims. He got scared that he would be caught
If you are truly interested, I recommend checking out one of the many Zodiac websites or the Zodiac subreddit. It is a very interesting case and you'll learn more about what the killer's psychological profile was like. It is a fun rabbit hole to spend a day or two on
So you dont leave him anything? His boldness? His fearless? Even then they had finger prints. Someone couldve still seen him. He couldve told someone.
You dont think he was scared when he committed the crimes?
We all have a chip on our shoulder.
Most serial killers have that part of their brain that registers risk-taking quite dulled. Might as well admire Dahmer, Bundy, Gacy, etc. They all took crazy stupid risks and could be described as fearless. Tip of the hat to Zodiac for evading capture, but I don't he was a genius or even particularly intelligent
He makes for a great "folk villain", though. So I understand why he has a cult following. I just think that if we ever got to know his true identity we'd find that he was a pretty lame, sad person
So evading an entire task force, the elite, the country, decades of fantastics isnt intelligent? Most serial killers and lower levels get caught and aint dumb enough to write letters with evidence, call tv stations, and repeat killings. You act like the 70’s was the dinosaur age. They still had plenty of technology then. They had finger prints, dna, spit, typographer, mega data, mass surveillance. Cameras were there at the time they were just too cheap to put them in every corner. And you act like technology hasnt failed today and many criminals dont get caught. And if they if they do they can still beat the system and even escape. No, the zodiac was special.
Arent we all?
DNA no they didn't. Zodiac's medal as others have pointed out came from his ability to evade capture. His motives as others have pointed out were not so impressive, he basically seemed to kill just for attention, as others have said. On the other hand killers like Elliot Rodger, Cho Seung Hui or even Eric and Dylan were much more impressive in detailing and portraying their reasons.
shareLike others have said you calling him a genius is a bit inaccurate I'd say. I don't know in this thread or another someone mentioned Golden State killer, he had Zodiac WELL beat in terms of what you list. GSK was only caught a couple of years ago, due to very modern dna testing. I think Zodiac definitely would have been caught if he had been born 10 years later.
Have a read on the GSK, would you call him a genius? No, just a guy with milatry and police background intent on doing bad things and violent criminal and killer. I wouldn't praise him or call him a genius because he wrote a poem or two.
He should have been caught after he killed the cab driver. He was seen walking the street by 2 police officers, but they drove by because the AP bulletin said it was a Black guy who did it. Zodiac even wrote a note how he saw the cops and also later that night he was hiding out in a park and could hear the cops revving their motorcycle engines trying to have fun instead of looking for him in the park where he acknowledeged he would have been caught.
shareThe best are never even suspected, because nobody even realizes there's a serial killer at work!
What he did, was bold and merits the best because he taunted them and let them know and even going as far as giving clues but never caught him or solved him.
shareI don't think it's possible for a serial killer to taunt the police and/or public in the modern world. Modern forensics are just too good.
I suspect there's as many serial killers as ever out there, if not more. But we don't hear about them, because they aren't famewhoring the way the old-schoolers did.
Hmm perhaps you dont know the Zodiac.
He came on the news with a phone call talking and they couldnt trace him. He sent letters to the media demanding it be published or face mass killings with evidence he was the killer from past killings to identify himself. He sent coded cypers to the police and news multiple times for them to break. None could be broken except one by a private family. Even that letter couldnt be fully broken. I think it was his first letter. It has been suggested that he actually gave his identity in his coded letters. To this day modern technology has not broken his letters. They had a profile, saliva, palm print, voice, many suspects and could never catch him. He called police stupid and confess when they almost caught him but got away under their nose. He did all of this multiple times. Even with DNA they havent caught him. Law enforcers, cults, and fanatics have dedicated to catching him over decades and they still havent.
This is the Zodiac Speaking.
No, I've read a bit about the Zodiac, and was even indirectly threatened by him as a child, and BTW your fanboy-ish praise of him is just a wee bit creepy. Anyway! If someone tried sending taunting paper letters to the police today they'd be tested for DNA traces, and the writer would be caught. If they tried sending taunting electronic messages, the messages would be traced and the killer caught.
So IMHO modern law enforcement technology isn't good enough to catch or even identify all the serial killers out there, it is good enough to stop them from launching Zodiac-style publicity campaigns.
[deleted]
hero worship much?
shareYes he was never caught, but he really didnt kill that many people. Even he took credit for murders he didn't commit, which is kinda lame and cowardly. You give him too much respect I think. I could turn around and say well Steven Paddock wipes the floor with Zodiac, Paddock killed like 20x the amount of people.
share