Neither reloaded nor revolutions should have been filmed
both films are a complete disgrace.
Matrix is a masterpiece, but both its sequels are as terrible as using 7UP for you car battery.
Reloaded, while falling far short of the original, did have some outstanding action sequences. I agree with you on Revolutions, though. A complete boring mess from beginning to end. The most unsatisfying conclusion imaginable.
shareI agree with you on Revolutions, though. A complete boring mess from beginning to end. The most unsatisfying conclusion imaginable.
What ending would you like to have seen? share
What ending would you like to have seen?
Most people (since they are human beings) would have preferred an ending where human beings end up better off than they were.
Instead we get a dead human hero and his dead girlfriend, who died so that most of the billions of humans trapped in The Matrix would stay trapped in the Matrix.
The .000025% of humans who live outside The Matrix, isolated in a deep hole in the ground get to keep living in the hole, which has been totally wrecked.
Humans still have to eat sloppy white goo for food. They don't get to live on the surface of the earth or see the sun or grow their own fresh fruits and vegetables. They are trapped in their hole forever (as they deserve, since humans ruined the planet).
Who DOES get to live in a nice, sunny place with green parks and hope for the future? The Oracle and her followers. They win.
This isn't the ending most people hoped for. But it makes sense. As Agent Smith put it, this is evolution. Higher life forms replace lower life forms. Humans already used up their chances (and they still act like buttheads, even in Zion).
Look at humans like Lock and Cypher and Switch and other rude, nasty humans. Would The Oracle or Sati or Seraph ever act like that? No, never. They are unfailingly polite, positive and pure. They are higher beings. They are angels.
What is represented by these three movies is the Wachowskis' experience with the Hollywood Machine. In the beginning, they thought their movie was going to revolutionize the place. But gradually they learned there are always higher powers and higher levels of control. You can't win against them. (though real, this isn't the ending to The Matrix most people hoped for).
If you are looking for the real names of The Architect, The Oracle, The Merovingian and the Deus Ex Machina they are Harry, Albert, Sam and Jack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros. share
Most people (since they are human beings) would have preferred an ending where human beings end up better off than they were....
I didn't ask YOU, Negative Nancy.
The humans are also evolving, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.
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The humans are also evolving, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.
Evolving into what?
Batteries or cave dwellers?
Both of course. But 99.99755 are batteries. Eveready evolving into Duracell? Woo hoo. The rest live and die in a hole.
Humans are not the point of The Matrix. They are the butt of the joke. If The Matrix was a Western, humans would be the cows. share
Batteries or cave dwellers?
The evolution of humans is self-evident. It took only six attempts for an anomaly to transcend the Matrix and break humanity out of the loop.
As a result, more "batteries" can be freed if they so choose.
The "cave dwellers" now have a respite from the war and can come out of hiding.
But 99.99755 are batteries. Eveready evolving into Duracell? Woo hoo. The rest live and die in a hole.
If you can't see the giant leap forward both factions took as a result of the events depicted in this trilogy, that's your loss.
The Machines would be in a world of hurt without the humans. If it wasn't for man's ability to grow, they wouldn't have a Matrix to live in or be able to "evolve" at all. It's only because of humans that Machines even have a reason to adapt. Without people, they would stagnate.
Yes, Zion is still underground. But they're ALIVE. That fact alone shows progress. And now, thanks to Neo, Zion can come out of the CAVE and explore the real world. (Remind you of any common philosophical allegories?)
Neo literally led them out of the cave.
Humans are not the point of The Matrix. They are the butt of the joke. If The Matrix was a Western, humans would be the cows.
You're SO missing the point of this trilogy. share
humanity out of the loop.
Humanity is not "out of the loop". They are needed to power the machine world.
If you can't see the giant leap forward both factions took as a result of the events depicted in this trilogy, that's your loss.
Watching The Matrix from this child-like perspective would only be a loss for those who start with an infantile perspective.
The winners of the Trilogy conflict are seen in the final scene. Oracle, Sati and Seraph. Only an infant could watch all three films and think these three characters are human.
If it wasn't for man's ability to grow
Women have no ability to grow? All the biggest buttheads in The Matrix are men.
Humanity does not grow in The Matrix. They start out trapped in the ruins of a world they wrecked which is now dominated by machines. After three long movies, humanity remains trapped in the ruins of a world they wrecked, which is now dominated by machines.
The characters enjoying the nice, quiet park and the sunset in the end are not human. Humans are in those billions of pods that Neo and Trinity see with a few survivors in a wrecked city called Zion. A city the machines built.
Humans have nothing. No freedom, no fresh air, no sunshine, no good food, nothing but a life of servitude or imprisonment. Machines still control every aspect of their existence. In the first movie, humans and machines had swapped roles of master and slave. After the third movie, humans remain slaves, machines remain masters. No change there.
Yes, Zion is still underground. But they're ALIVE. That fact alone shows progress.
It is true that losers who have no life might think just surviving is awesome. But there are some lives so pathetic that death is preferable. Every human still alive on planet earth at the end of Revolutions is pathetic. They have nothing, and have nothing to look forward to but servitude or encagement for the rest of their lives. The earth belongs to machines now. Everything that any human has now was given to them by the machines and can be taken away at any time.
Humans are not the point of The Matrix. They are the butt of the joke. If The Matrix was a Western, humans would be the cows.
Moo!
"Fire me up some more electricity, you billions of coppertop blue pills. And you guys in Zion, shut up, eat some slop and start sweeping up that mess. Just because you live trapped in a hole doesn't give you license to be slobs. Did you think the Sentinels were going to fix up the destruction they caused Zion?
Mwhahahahahaha! Git to work, bossy! You work for the machines, not the other way around. Push that broom. Sweep up that dust! Hyahhhh! Maybe in 100 years you'll have Zion looking the way it started. Just in time for another cycle."
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Humanity is not "out of the loop". They are needed to power the machine world.
They're needed for a whole lot more than that.
But the "loop" I'm referring to is totally different than the one you are.
Watching The Matrix from this child-like perspective
What makes you think that people will EVER warm up to you when you are consistently condescending and obnoxious?
The winners of the Trilogy conflict are seen in the final scene.
Yup...like you keep saying. Except that I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. It's okay you know. You don't have to insult people because they don't see things the same way you do.
EVERYBODY is a winner IMO. You can be glass half empty for humanity all you want but I interpret the outcome differently.
Women have no ability to grow? All the biggest buttheads in The Matrix are men.
Do you want to discuss, or do you want to be a troll?
Humanity does not grow in The Matrix.
I disagree. Their growth is self-evident. With each cycle, the Machines are forced to adapt. This is why the One is required to allow "a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program."
Reinsertion of the prime program simultaneously ends AND begins the Path of the One routine and provides the Machines with DATA on how to IMPROVE THE MATRIX.
Humanity adapts and transcends, then the Machines adapt to keep up. This is how the Matrix works.
The characters enjoying the nice, quiet park and the sunset in the end are not human. Humans are in those billions of pods that Neo and Trinity see with a few survivors in a wrecked city called Zion.
Except that the vast majority of programs are still "trapped" as well. When the Oracle asks about the "ones who want out" I believe she is referring to both humans AND programs.
The Matrix is like Candyland for programs. In it, they get to experience what it's like to be human. Can't do that in the Machine world. It's why the Merovingian LOVES being in the Matrix. He gets to enjoy food, drugs, sex - you name it. Programs can now enter the Matrix without fear of being hunted by agents. (Assuming that they behave.)
And the humans in the Matrix that want out can get out. They have FREEDOM. They can LEAVE Zion if they want and find new areas. Sure the world is screwed up. But the humans GOT WHAT THEY WANTED. Or at least, the best outcome available to them.
Whatever you think of their current circumstances, humanity's postion has IMPROVED.
It is true that losers who have no life might think just surviving is awesome. But there are some lives so pathetic that death is preferable. Every human still alive on planet earth at the end of Revolutions is pathetic.
I disagree. share
I disagree. Their growth is self-evident. With each cycle, the Machines are forced to adapt.
They don't. The cycles are repetitive so they don't have to adapt. Humanity in the Matrix TRIES to change. Zion allows The Matrix to survive longer by siphoning off those who don't fit within the Matrix system.
But eventually Zion becomes too big (Morpheus: "Consider that in the past 6 months we have freed more minds than in 6 years") and The Matrix gets "reloaded".
Does your computer change and adapt each time you reload it? Of course not. You reload your computer, often using a previous starting point, to AVOID changes (like viruses, bugs, unwanted cookies and other glitches).
Reinsertion of the prime program simultaneously ends AND begins the Path of the One routine and provides the Machines with DATA on how to IMPROVE THE MATRIX.
Incorrect. Machines have no reason to improve the Matrix. It already works. They are just periodically clearing it of problems. All computers need this from time to time.
Except that the vast majority of programs are still "trapped" as well. When the Oracle asks about the "ones who want out" I believe she is referring to both humans AND programs.
She is mostly referring to programs. The Oracle IS a program. Her followers are programs. Humans were just the sacrificial pawns she used to force the Matrix to change so that exile programs like her didn't have to be deleted and could live in peace.
The Matrix is like Candyland for programs. In it, they get to experience what it's like to be human. Can't do that in the Machine world.
This is quite obvious.
That is the purpose of agents- to delete rogue and exile programs (as we see with The Key Maker). Sometimes agents try to delete rogue human programs but mostly they end up letting them go to Zion. There is no "Zion" for exile programs so they hide inside The Matrix. That is the deal which has been struck in the end. Exile, rogue programs now get to live in peace in The Matrix.
And the humans in the Matrix that want out can get out. They have FREEDOM. They can LEAVE Zion if they want and find new areas.
You are not thinking clearly. There ARE no "new areas". They are underground in a hole. The surface is uninhabitable and dominated by machines.
Now that Neo has struck his deal, Zion will not periodically be destroyed, as was necessary. Now it will just continue to get bigger and bigger. It is already overcrowded but there is nowhere else to go.
Zion is like living in hell. Now that it won't ever get a fresh start, the only option is to become more and more crowded and to become an even bigger hell. They will never have fresh air, they will never see sunshine, they will never have fresh food, they will never have free open fields in which to run. That is all part of the past for humans. They only had one earth and they ruined it. So they get what they deserve.
The point is clearly made, the earth is now the home for machines, not humans. As Smith makes clear, "this is OUR time".
I know there are people right now in the real world who just live in the basement with no windows, eating microwave meals every day as they play on their computers. It is easy to see why such people consider life in Zion to be "normal".
But people who actually get out of the house, who know sunshine, rain, snow, fresh air, gardens, fresh food, exercise, travel etc. can recognize Zion as an unnatural kind of hell, just like life in the basement.
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It's become painfully obvious to me that your only purpose here is to be contrarian for the sake of...I actually have no idea really.
You have been presented with valid arguments and yet all you do is shoot everything and everyone down.
If you don't get that humans are adapting and that the Machines are changing to keep up, you are totally missing a major theme of the trilogy.
If you don't get that humans are adapting and that the Machines are changing to keep up, you are totally missing a major theme of the trilogy.
Incorrect. At the end of three movies, humans are the same. They are 99.999% enslaved in The Matrix with a small % living underground in Zion. Both The Matrix and Zion are Machine-built worlds for them to live in. Humans do not have the capacity to build their own living space. They are completely reliant on machine-made spaces. Humans have destroyed the only inhabitable place on earth for them (the surface) and they have no future as a species.
If humans HAD evolved and changed over the course of the story, you would have provided examples of their change. You have not done this and cannot do this because they haven't changed. You would have to make up something out of your head that isn't in any of the movies. Only the machines have shown change.
In this story, humans suck. They think war and killing are the only solutions to anything. Humans have nothing to contribute to the planet. They are aggressive parasites. Not one human in Zion is a farmer or a carpenter or a welder. Even the women abandon their children and run around shooting machine guns. All humans know how to do is fight and wage war. They love it. And that's why they suck. There are no redeeming values to be found in Zion. Only fighting, farting and *beep*- ing.
"Change" has only occurred among the Machines. It is the "dangerous game" that the Architect and the Oracle discuss. You'll find this conversation at the end of Revolutions. It is worth listening to.
Evolution and change and positive behavior belong to this new, human-like group of computer programs, exemplified by The Oracle, Sati and Seraph. They are civilized in their behavior, their speech and their attitude. Compared to these new machines, humans are a bunch of brawling, barbaric apes. The future and the new world (as illustrated by green grass and a sunrise) belong to them not humans. share
If humans HAD evolved and changed over the course of the story, you would have provided examples of their change.
Clearly you haven't read a thing I've posted, because numerous examples have been provided. You can't limit your focus to just this story, they are evolving each cycle.
No, you've read it. The problem is that ANYTHING that makes humanity to appear to have any hope whatsoever is IMMEDIATELY dismissed, overlooked, ignored.
You have not done this and cannot do this because they haven't changed. You would have to make up something out of your head that isn't in any of the movies. Only the machines have shown change.
Funny you say this about the Machines NOW, when earlier you said:
"They don't. The cycles are repetitive so they don't have to adapt."
We know the Machines adapt to humans because in Reloaded, Neo is fighting "upgraded" agents. This appears to be adaptation to me.
You keep focusing on the humans current physical situation and ignoring the possibilities that Neo has made available to them.
You refuse to even acknowledge the Matrix Comics, even though stories like the "Miller's Tale" reveal a surface world that is steadily recovering from what the war did to it.
A surface that is NOT dead and lifeless, but instead is home to fungi, frogs and ducks. A surface where humans have successfully grown and cultivated wheat and re-learned how to bake bread. Bread that Morpheus himself has eaten.
Neo is evidence that they've changed. He was the first to delete an agent. He chose the WRONG door. He was the first to demonstrate power over the real world.
In this story, humans suck. They think war and killing are the only solutions to anything. Humans have nothing to contribute to the planet. They are aggressive parasites. Not one human in Zion is a farmer or a carpenter or a welder.
Wrong.
Geoffrey successfully grew wheat that was used as a source of bread for many years before the Machines discovered what the humans were doing and killed them all in the Battle of the Wheat Fields. (The Miller's Tale)
Geoffrey = Farmer
We see trinity welding in the Neb when Neo is provided with a tour after he is rescued.
Trinity = Welder
I can't recall and example of carpentry but then again, I don't recall seeing a lot of wood either.
"Change" has only occurred among the Machines. It is the "dangerous game" that the Architect and the Oracle discuss. You'll find this conversation at the end of Revolutions. It is worth listening to.
Then maybe YOU should listen to it.
Even the women abandon their children and run around shooting machine guns.
Yup. Because fighting for your life and the lives of those children is SO much more enjoyable to them then being able to just live a normal life free from fear.
Good thing for them there's a war happening.
Evolution and change and positive behavior belong to this new, human-like group of computer programs, exemplified by The Oracle, Sati and Seraph. They are civilized in their behavior, their speech and their attitude. Compared to these new machines, humans are a bunch of brawling, barbaric apes.
Right. Because we NEVER see barbaric, brawling programs.
They ARE human-like. They kill, manipulate and seek pleasure above all else.
Only "fighting, farting and *beep*- ing" indeed - sounds a lot like Merv's night club.
The future and the new world (as illustrated by green grass and a sunrise) belong to them not humans.
That's not the REAL sun.
And Bluepills outnumber Exiles by quite a large number. They all get to enjoy the grass and "sunshine" too. share
The problem is that ANYTHING that makes humanity to appear to have any hope whatsoever is IMMEDIATELY dismissed, overlooked, ignored.
Are you the one who thinks The Matrix is a video game that you can play, rather than a movie? I think you have confused virtual reality with the real world as so many gamer type end up doing. Remember, video games= blue pill. Lost in an artificial reality.
There is hope for humanity in the real world. Not in The Matrix. In this story, humanity is a lost cause. There is no positive future for humans . If there was, The Wachowskis would have shown it. They didn't.
But try not to despair. In the real world humanity is fine. There are many SF movies where humanity is doing well. You should probably watch those instead of The Matrix.
You keep focusing on the humans current physical situation and ignoring the possibilities that Neo has made available to them.Neo has allowed billions of human beings to stay in The Matrix and he has allowed 1/4 million overcrowded people to avoid extermination, meaning they will become more and more and more crowded. They can't live on the surface. They can't fly to another planet. All they can do is make the hole they live in into a bigger hole. Woo hoo. Great future. And that's just a tiny fraction of humanity. The vast majority are still in pods awaiting their insertion into The Matrix. Same as when the story began.
A surface that is NOT dead and lifeless, but instead is home to fungi, frogs and ducks. A surface where humans have successfully grown and cultivated wheat and re-learned how to bake bread. Bread that Morpheus himself has eaten.
None of that is in any of the Matrix trilogy movies.
Right. Because we NEVER see barbaric, brawling programs.The evolved machines are The Oracle, Sati and Seraph. They have the best of humanity and machine intelligence. The future belongs to them.
They ARE human-like. They kill, manipulate and seek pleasure above all else.
That's not the REAL sun.
I'm surprised you realize that. Do you think there is a way that The Oracle, Sati and Seraph could enjoy "the REAL sun"? You must again be reminded that they are not human. They are computer programs. The real sun means nothing to them.
And Bluepills outnumber Exiles by quite a large number. They all get to enjoy the grass and "sunshine" too.
Exactly.
Finally you have figured out the true story at the end of The Matrix. The future of humanity is a virtual one. The vast majority of humanity will remain enslaved batteries living in The Matrix. It makes sense that a blue pill such as yourself see that as a good future. Like Cypher you prefer virtual reality to the real world.
But there is no hope for the small % of humans who are Zionites. They were better off being exterminated and starting over with only 23 individuals. Now they will continue to multiply and mutate in their overcrowded, underground tunnels until they become some sort of hideous, underground rat-like species. Most Matrix fans think Zion is disgusting now. Imagine the place in 10,000 years. Yech!
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Exactly.
Finally you have figured out the true story at the end of The Matrix. The future of humanity is a virtual one. The vast majority of humanity will remain enslaved batteries living in The Matrix. It makes sense that a blue pill such as yourself see that as a good future. Like Cypher you prefer virtual reality to the real world.
But there is no hope for the small % of humans who are Zionites. They were better off being exterminated and starting over with only 23 individuals. Now they will continue to multiply and mutate in their overcrowded, underground tunnels until they become some sort of hideous, underground rat-like species. Most Matrix fans think Zion is disgusting now. Imagine the place in 10,000 years. Yech!
Tired of your condescension. Your view of the trilogy will continue to be limited because of your stubborn refusal to accept the fact that there are other forms of media that enhance and clarify these stories.
If you weren't so dead set on ignoring this stuff, you'd see that there ARE places inside the Matrix other than the Mega City. Places like Paris, Phoenix and Heathrow Airport in London. (Which is actually mentioned in a newspaper article about Morpheus at the beginning of M1.)
You'd acknowledge that it's logistically absurd for all the Bluepills to have been killed when Smith was eradicated as this would have destroyed the Matrix and made it impossible for the stories that take place right after it to have occurred.
You'd acknowledge that there are families, with mothers, fathers, children etc. in the Matrix.
You wouldn't allege silly things like the "potentials" actually being programs.
In short, you need to free your mind. Stop looking for weird ways to insult people and clinging to bizarre theories which have been disproven. It just makes you look goofy and desperate. share
I'm sorry you feel goofy and desperate. This is a consequence of a social life engaged entirely within virtual reality.
If you feel The Matrix is a really cool place; a place you hope to spend the rest of your life, then I certainly am not going to try to take that away from you.
Good luck.
lolz, I miss these...
shareYeah after seeing the Animatrix, a lot of people wanted the Machine City, 01, to be completely annihilated, and the power plant destroyed, after visually seeing billions freed.
It was sad that Neo and Trinity had to die for sure, they could have written it so that they could return to Zion after being healed up by the Machines after peace was established.
Very depressing for sure. It would have been nice to see the Zion humans climb to the surface of the earth, and see Operation Dark Storm's result, 600 years later, for themselves. The sky is permanently scorched, by the way.
One good thing about Resurrections is that it establishes the Human City of IO (10), which is more closer to the surface, and looks better than Zion, and they are actually growing real food there.
Those who remain in the Matrix get to live in beautiful sunshine and sunny parks and a cleaned up Mega City, also the green tint is seemingly removed.
The machines aren't higher life forms, they are lines of code. They are not sentient, they are not self-aware, they have no consciousness--they are only running on lines of code created originally by humans to appear to be self-aware, yet are not.
Oracle, Sati, and Seraph are all machines. Oracle and Seraph are from earlier versions of the Matrix, while Sati is a newer program from the 6th version of the Matrix. They are not life forms.
Imagine the Alien movies if Weyland-Yutani was destroyed, imagine Avatar if RDA was destroyed. There's something about the villainous evil megacorporation surviving after the credits roll that keeps people coming back for more, the same applies to the Matrix movies.
The 1 in the first movie.
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