….no WAY Jake would hand over his gun in that kitchen……in that neighborhood…..to complete strangers. Zero chance a cop would do that. One of the biggest mistakes I’ve ever seen in a cop movie, and my suspension of disbelief can only go so far.
shareWhen the latino dude has him upside down in a bathtub with a shotgun in his mouth, and he finds his cousin's wallet on Jake, he tells him "You just fucked up" because of the wallet.
Given that at this point, Jake is already upside down in a bathtub with a shotgun in his mouth, with no gun of his own because he handed it to these people willingly, I'd say he already reached the maximum level of "Fucking up".
Disagree.
They were about to blast him in the face, for "business." Quick. Simple.
But after they thought it turned personal... they were going to blast him in the knees, chop off his dick, stab a meat cleaver through is shoulder, burn off his fingers, cigarette burn his eyes, and THEN blast him in the face
That is a good point.
shareNot to suggest that Jake handing over his gun is believable, but I have a harder time with the sequence at the end of the film, where Jake resuscitates from a pummeling in time to dive down onto a car from above, dominate Alonzo and then achieve the support of all the thugs in the neighborhood.
shareHaaa! A very fair point.
shareIt's already established by Roger earlier in the film that Jake played safety and was all-state in college
shareWell, for the sake of fun discussion I'll offer the following . . .
Sure, Jake played football back in the day. But he's older now and probably not in athletic shape any longer, even if he frequents the law enforcement gym. But I get what you're trying to suggest, he's still young and as a former athlete in better shape to handle a beating than an 80 year old man. Still, that was a severe pummeling he took and to recover as fast as he did in order to launch an attack is a bit much, add to that a leap from the 2nd floor and crash into a car and then go into Mike Tyson mode is stretching credulity even further.
But, it's how the formula works for most films. The hero takes a beating from the bad guy, then suddenly springs to life and wins the day. It's a movie.
As an addendum to my comment above, I just watched this film again last night and I have an even harder time with another moment in the film. A moment so bad it completely jumps the shark. I think because of the great acting and tenseness of the moment it gets overlooked, but when Alonzo says to Jake:
"Lemme tell you a secret, Hoyt. If you kill someone on duty, they have to be your slave in the afterlife."
Boom -- (as Alonzo would say) -- shark jump!
The very idea that you would take a fellow officer from outside your inner circle and hand him a gun and expect him to shoot and kill someone in cold blood to complete a robbery that the officer obviously didn't agree with might be the biggest head scratcher in the history of cinema.
What is so head scratching about it? ALonzo knew he had to get rid of Roger. He thought maybe Hoyt was just dumb enough to do it. It's one of those "lets see what he does" type moments. Hoyt doesn't do it, so ALonzo kills ROger himself.
What is head scratching is what the OP mentioned. Not a chance in Hell would Hoyt have given up his firearm. In fact, I think he'd have been locked and loaded - while surreptitiously making sure his stinger was ready to go as well.
I could see playing cards with them to keep the peace. But no chance of going unprotected in that situation, not even for one moment.
Oh I agree in full about giving up the firearm. But we can agree to disagree about Alonzo asking Hoyt to kill Roger. It might have been slightly different if Hoyt had agreed to take the cash. That would have at least implied that he was catching on to what the inner circle were about and tacitly agreeing that he was on board. But even then, murdering someone is a whole other level.
Of course, Hoyt didn't accept the money. He'd been bucking Alonzo all day. There is absolutely no reason in the world to think that at the spur of the moment he's going to murder someone to aide in a theft he wants no part of. Or murder someone even without the theft/payoff.
I continue to scratch my head . . .
No, it makes perfect sense ALonzo would do what he does.
Alonzo is a snake. He's trying to get Hoyt to kill ROger so he doesn't have to.
Roger has to go, one way or another. SO Alonzo figures, let me see if this kid is dumb enough to do it himself.
True, if Im Alonzo at that point, I wouldn't think Jake would do it. But what is the harm in taking a chance? The worst case scenario is Jake won't do it. ANd its not like there are any witnesses in the room that are going to corroborate anything Jake says. So, its a roll of the dice. Alonzo is thinking - If he does it great, I don't have to get my own hands dirty. If he doesn't, well, that's what I expected, l'll have to do it myself.
I understand Alonzo's motivation perfectly. But the scene would have made more sense if Alonzo just straight up shot Roger, THEN told Hoyt he was going to get credit for it, get the promotion, etc.
Hoyt would have balked at the notion of course and the things would have proceeded as we're shown.
It's just . . well, you understand my objection by now.
Maybe you're right, maybe Alonzo thought it was worth a try. It's just hard for me imagine even bothering with the effort. Time was a factor and worth considering also, officers and paramedics moments away and all.
I'm sorry Seperatix - we can't get on the same page with this one.
Time is a factor, yes, but Alonzo owns the room. It doesn't take but a few moments to see if Jake will do the dirty deed. There is no loss if he doesn't do it. There is a tremendous gain (for ALonzo) if he does.
Take a quick shot, see what he does, and go from there.
It makes perfect sense to me for a snake like ALonzo to do exactly that.
I disagree. Even if he held onto it he was fucked. Giving it up was just him acting relaxed staying in character till the shit hit the fan.
shareI respectfully disagree. No trained cop would be so "relaxed" as to hand over his gun to a room full of gangbangers in a hostile neighborhood riddled with danger. It was the ONLY leverage he had, if things went south. Granted, it would still have been very hard to get out of there alive, even WITH a gun. But it sure beats flipping a table over and trying to fight all of them. They knew they had to get his gun before moving on him. When he handed it over that easily, he didn't come across to them as relaxed. He came across as inexperienced and foolish.
shareI'm going to have to rewatch the scene to be able to disagree with a passion. I may be coming from a place of ignorance, I will get back to you.
shareHE WAS INEXPERIENCED AND FOOLISH...THAT WAS LITERALLY A BIG PART OF HIS CHARACTER.
shareHe also thought denzel was there and had his back.
shareyeah, shit annoyed me too.
shareHe was a rookie, and he didn't know Alonso had screwed him over yet. He figured he was safe with Alonso there. And he did unload the gun before handing it over
shareHe (Jake) was a smart guy, and had ZERO reason to trust Alonso. In fact, just an hour earlier, he had witnessed Alonso murder Roger in cold blood (just to get some blood money)...(and he even tried to manipulate Jake into doing it). He knew Alonso was dirty af. Rookie or not, everything his instincts, training....and hell, common sense should have been telling him was: Don't put yourself in potential IMMENSE danger by giving up your firearm to a gangbanger you don't even know. As a cop, you never....ever ever ever surrender your sidearm, ESPECIALLY in a gangland neighborrhood, in a gangland house....full of lawless gangbangers. Again, Jake.....a married man with a daughter......had ZERO reason to hang his life on the hopes that "Alonso is just using the bathroom. He is a good, trustworthy person who will come back to this kitchen and have my back." In fact...he knew Alonso was desperate, and in a hurry. There's just....no....WAY.
And all that training Jake had just recently gone through in the academy would still be fresh in his head. They really hammer home about gun safety....and to take your gun EXTREMELY seriously. There's just no way. He knew what that neirborhood was like, and who those people were (and what they were capable of). At the very LEAST, even if he believed Alonso was coming back....he'd still be thinking like a cop, and knew he and Alonso were far outnumbered, and in a gangland area. He'd be thinking "Alonso and I need to be on our game, and have each other's back." The last thing he'd want would be for Alonso to return to the kitchen and see that Jake had handed his gun over to a banger.
Jake had witnessed Alonso, all day long, lie, cheat, manipulate, kill and steal. He had been warned about that neighborhood...and self-preservation would have been first and foremost on his mind. He didn't know anyone in that room--and he didn't know Alonzo, except that everything he had witnessed in just that one day was crooked af. All he knew was that his gun was the only true protection he had--and he was sitting at a table with murderous thugs who hate police.
There's just no way.
There was a scene in the car after they kill Roger. Alonso basically gives Jake a talk that soothes Jake’s nerves. During the scene with the gangbangers, we see Jake repeatedly look down the hall towards the bathroom. So he was thinking or hoping that nothing would happen with Alonso there. And when Jake sees that Alonso left him (when he looks out the window), we see a shocked look on his face, so he did expect that Alonso would be there for him
Jake had already seen that Alonso was on good terms with sketchy people (eg the jungle), so he probably figured the gangbangers were the same sort of connections for Alonso. Alonso did say to him that he comes over to this place to give them food and stuff to help them out.
It’s not textbook police procedure to hand over your gun that way. but again - he figured he was safe with Alonso and his associates; he didn’t know he was there to get killed . And he probably figured he would go over well with the group by being “cool” and letting them look at the gun .
https://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Training_Day_Ayer.html
On this question, the script explains Jake's decision this way, implying that he was scared. In the script, however, this part happens after he looks out the window and realizes Alonso left him:
SNIPER
Your gun, dude. Let him see your
gun. Under your shirt.
Jake is outnumbered, outsized, outgunned. All he can do
is take the pistol from his holster and show Moreno.