MovieChat Forums > Friends (1994) Discussion > 6 awful people

6 awful people

posted 5 years ago by Heisenberg (6376)
19 replies | jump to latest

I love this show, I love the characters, it's my favorite comedy series ever.

Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned or I'm being judgmental, but they are 6 awful people considering their actions and behaviours.
I believe the authors were trying to bring something new and "edgy" with the extreme modern antics, but I think they ended up making these 6 characters a bit awful:
they start awfully right off the bat with Rachel running away on her wedding day.
Ross was married to a lesbian.
Phoebe gets pregnant with her brother.
Her brother is dating an old lady.
Monica dates a teenager.
Most of their relationship is superficial and ends in a wacky/hateful way.
Rachel is pregnant but keeps dating anybody else but Ross.
Ross has 3 divorces, but even worse are his 3 weddings based on totally wrong premises.
Ross dates one of his students.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot here, I know this stuff never bothered me watching it and it is often addressed by the show as "weird mishap", but I'm just picking this vibe now after years because, even though they live cosmopolitan modern lives in NY, they overall do behave like awful people.

[–] Megan1988 (324) 5 years ago

Well, I wouldn't say they're awful people, just made some poor decisions. Here's some shows that really do have some awful people, in my opinion.

The King of Queens
Seinfeld
The Office
Everybody Loves Raymond

I love all these shows, but I think the characters on those are worse than Friends. Just my opinion, however :)

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

Yes, of course compared to those other series they look like heroes, Seinfeld had a group of borderline psychos.
But everybody knows that, even in their own shows they are defined as that.
In Friends, although the show addresses these events as "not normal", they kinda want to pass it as afterall positive stuff.
I guess they might be right, it's their business and it's their life to make any decision, but I'm just arguing it could have benefitted from the opposite side of the argument, the one saying that this stuff is not really to be admired or condoned.
Something innocent like Joey screwing a new girl on every show, ok it's often funny, good for him etc. But that's quite a self destructive behaviour that shows deeper problems with this guy, he barely stops in one show to just relapse in his path because of a threesome.
It's probably not Friend's place to take a stance on these issues, but they tried so hard to put weird situations in their stories that it almost looked like they had a "normalization agenda".

[–] snepts (11123) 5 years ago

What do you mean "it's their business and it's their life to make any decision, ...."? It's a TV show for gosh sakes.
Sorry for butting in. I never watched Friends, could not abide these people and their living situation. But the show was unavoidable, so I know more about it than I care to.

[–] footballhead (80) 5 years ago

You say they're awful, but then most of the stuff you list isn't awful at all. Different maybe, but awful? No.

-Ross was married to a lesbian: How does that make HIM awful?

-Phoebe gets pregnant with her brother: This is an extremely asinine way of putting it. You act like they had sex. They didnt. Her brother and his wife couldn't conceive, so she was a surrogate. Again, how is that awful?

Her brother is dating an old lady: I mean she was like 50, not really an old lady, but again, how is that awful? Why is dating someone older, even a lot older, awful?

Monica dates a teenager: Didn't he lie about how old he was? Not really her fault.

Rachel is pregnant but keeps dating anybody else but Ross: Didn't she date one person? And it only lasted one episode. How is one guy "everybody"? Ross dated Mona while Rachel was pregnant for like half the season. Either way, who cares though? Rachel didn't want to date Ross then, so how is that awful?

Ross dates one of his students: That was against his school's rules but it was a dumb rule since she wasnt his student anymore. It was after she finished his class. Really not a big deal.

So yeah, most of your list of awful behavior isn't awful at all. So it sounds like you are just too judgemental. But even then, it's weird to say these are awful things. Maybe you need to rewatch the show too, since some of what you said seems very ignorant as to what actually happens.

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

Don't need to be so defensive, man. Maybe you didn't read that it's my favorite comedy ever, pretty sure I know it better than you do so don't need to explain it to me.
I was just arguing that in real life, even by today standards, any of the things I mentioned would rarely fly as being decent, proper, common, normal antics.
Anybody doing any of that would be looked down upon and considered a somewhat bad person, but watched through the tv it's different.

[–] footballhead (80) 5 years ago

I'm not being defensive, and I didn't say you hated the show or anything. I'm pointing out that most of the things you listed aren't even bad. And the only ones out of the 6 I talked about that people would have a problem with today are Ross dating a student and Monica dating the teenager. But in both cases people probably wouldn't even care that much because as I said, Ross wasn't her professor anymore and the kid lied to Monica.

[–] TandyMan (10419) 5 years ago

The Friends were insufferably cruel to one another. It never used to bother me, hell I never even noticed, till the later seasons when their actions and antics got even more extreme and the laughs got fewer and farther between. Sort of pulled back the curtain on how the show's always been. That said, it's a sitcom, they've kind of always been that way. Even old Honeymooners and I Love Lucy eps are the characters being really selfish and shitty.

[–] hurricane (1918) 5 years ago

Not that I agree with all of the other things you said, but the one that sticks out to me is "Ross was married to a lesbian."

I don't really see how that makes him an 'awful person'. His wife hadn't come out as a lesbian when they married. Hadn't admitted it to herself. How would Ross know, if she didn't know herself? What part of that makes him an awful person? Or her, come to that?

[–] Prelude (1443) 5 years ago

I think footballhead makes spot-on assessments in countering your points; none of this was truly or deliberately awful, it only looks bad on paper so to speak, but the details paint a different picture, such as, for one example, Phoebe was actually doing an amazing and loving thing by agreeing to carry her brother's children as a surrogate womb.

And how was Ross to blame for marrying someone whom he had no idea was a closeted lesbian? He was the innocent party in that situation.

It's been mentioned, but Seinfeld was the show whose characters were fully and intentionally "awful people" and even the writers meant for them to be so.

With the Friends, I think nobody intended them to be or do awful things, it's just that when you're trying to create comical situations, things tend to go in the direction of bad choices, or bad actions and bad outcomes, because that's where the humor is.

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

Yes but all those points, and many more, are the stuff that is great for comedy.
I'm pointing out how in reality, that's the stuff that makes tragedies:
Ross married a Lesbian. Not so funny in real life. Also, he would be totally to blame.
How do you not realize that? What does that say about you as a man and lover?
That's a couple of years of therapy already.

I gave birth to my brother's and his elderly woman's triplets.
That's the front page on a supermarket tabloid.
I can go on, I'm just saying that in reality they would come off as pretty weird and not so great fellas.
If any of my real friends were like them, I don't think I would be as welcoming with them.

[–] Prelude (1443) 5 years ago

Well, lol, first of all, I myself am not a man, I'm a woman!

And I have to seriously disagree with you about Ross being to blame for marrying a lesbian -- are you completely forgetting or overlooking what we are trying to remind you of?

Namely, the fact that not only did Ross have no idea she was a lesbian when he fell in love with and married her, but even she herself did not yet realize she was a lesbian.

How do you not realize this? Ross is not "to blame" because he didn't know because neither did she.

From what I gather, that kind of thing can and does happen in real life, particularly longer ago when people could grow up deeply suppressing themselves for fear of judgement, even if they did have an inkling that they were not in their hearts heterosexual. And yes, in real life it's not funny at all but causes a great deal of heartbreak. But many people who were gay/lesbian went ahead and married, back before there was more awareness of an acceptance of someone not being straight. If anything, the wife was "to blame" for misleading a straight man into thinking he was in a straight relationship with a straight woman, although personally I don't blame her at all because she was clearly one of the people who could not acknowledge her orientation herself. If she couldn't, how could Ross??

So if not only Ross but the woman herself were not aware of her true orientation, how can either of them be "to blame" for marrying?

As for all of these situations being tragedies in real life, you can say that about every single premise and situation in ALL situation comedies. From Raymond to All in the Family to Seinfeld to The Simpsons even -- almost no comedy is based on sweetness and light and lovely things. Comedy is by its nature predicated on making light of things that are essential "awful."

Thus, if you're going to make that criticism about "Friends," you have to go on every board for every comedy and say the same thing, lol, because they're ALL like this, to be honest.

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

I agree that most american sit coms have pretty awful people in them.
Men in particular are usually painted as borderline retard/criminals (see the simpsons).
Raymond is a little more realistic than Friends, as his situations are not THAT out there.
But everybody in that family has serious problems and they are, indeed, horrible people in the real world. Seinfield is filled with psychopaths.
Coming back to Friends, it's clear they wanted to push new stuff with these stories, it's all funny and I don't mind it, I'm just saying these out-there events in real life are usually associated with less than awesome people.
Including marrying a lesbian: I'm not really "blaming" him, nor blaming anybody. I'mjust saying that in a healthy loving relationship this stuff doesn't happen.
If it happens, it's because there's lots of lying or lots of pretending to not see the signals.
No need to point fingers against others, but this doesn't happen to the best people.

[–] Prelude (1443) 5 years ago

"This doesn't happen to the best people" ---- wow, what? Seriously?

I don't know you of course, and I don't know if perhaps you are very sheltered or young, but I think you are very mistaken in your opinion about that, and I say that because that particular thing can indeed to happen to perfectly good, decent people.

Even "the best people" can lie or fail to see the signs about something.

Even "the best" people who are not heterosexual may feel pressured to hide their true sexuality, may feel pressured to conform to heterosexual norms such as marrying the opposite sex, and even "the best" people may, conversely, be so deeply suppressed in their self-knowledge that they genuinely didn't connect with their true sexuality until they'd already committed to the wrong relationship.

And on Ross's part, or men like him who may have been in this situation - you don't have to be a bad or awful person to overlook signs of something, especially when you're not expecting to see those signs. One might say well it would take an awfully stupid person not to figure out that your wife doesn't seem interested in sex much, or seems to be looking at other women, or whatever signs there might be.

But lots of people genuinely dismiss signs about lots of things, because they're in fact genuinely not looking for problems, and are trying to be kind about issues rather than think the worst -- not that being a lesbian is the worst, but what I mean is it's a negative for a marriage that was based on both parties being straight.

What I'm saying is, good people lie, deny, hide, or are dense and miss cues or "think the best" instead of facing that something seems to be an issue or a mis-match. Most people who marry have a determination to see the best in their partner and their choice instead of face up to realizing they've both chosen the wrong person.

That doesn't mean they're "not the best people," and honestly it's incredibly harsh of you to form that opinion.

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

Not really, look I'm all for liberties and everybody can do as they please.
But NOT EVERYBODY IS EQUAL.
There are people that lie, a lot, a little, and people that don't lie. They are not all the same.
I think we have different definitions for "good people".
I don't consider "good people" somebody who is not a mass murderer.
That's called "people".
Good people is people that are good, as opposed to normal or worse people.
I wouldn't call anybody on Friends good any day. They are barely normal, often looking awful.
In Ross's situation, he is clearly too naive or stupid to see the signals (which are often pointed out for laughs in friends but they are blatantly in your face).
He should have known better. That doesn't sound like he's somebody to admire.
I would admire him if he knew and decided to marry her anyway because he loved her and thought he could make it work (which is crazy but at least he had a plan).
Look, I'm not saying he should be executed. I'm saying, he's not what I would consider "a great guy". I would think he's either stupid, or naive, or something else negative, just because he married a lesbian.
I'm just being honest here. I guess you instead would say "He married a lesbian? he must be a great guy!"
Well, anybody is entitled to their opinion, I think I'm with the vast majority.

[–] footballhead (80) 5 years ago

You repeatedly ignore the actual facts of Phoebe giving birth to her brothers kids. Much like you call Ross, you're being very ignorant or stupid about it. Her brother and his wife couldn't get pregnant. She offered to carry their babies and give birth to them. That's not a supermarket tabloid for christ's sake, that's a legitimate procedure people do. When a couple want a baby but cant have one, one option is a surrogate. That's what happened here. I don't think anyone would give a fuck since it's not as if Phoebe and her brother had sex, which is something you dont seem to understand. This is how that conversation would go for most people:

"Hey Phoebe, I cant believe you're pregnant, congrats!".
"Thanks, but I'm actually my brother and his wife's surrogate, since they cant have kids".
"Oh really, good for you for doing that for them".

Yeah, real tabloid inducing stuff. And once again, her brothers wife was 50. If you call that elderly, maybe you think we still live in the middle ages when that was considered really old. This is isnt Hugh Hefner marrying a 20 something when he was in his 90's. Is it a little different? Yes. Would people care as much as you're claiming? No.

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

Yeah, because everybody lives in NY and thinks the way you paint it.
How about the fact that that conversation with Phoebe should have been, without sugar coating it:

"...since they can't have kids. You know, she's 50, so no chance there since she's grandmother aged. And they can't afford a real surrogate so they had to hit me, who have just really met the guy. It's gonna be such an awesome family once I tell them I have triplets in here!"
The other person is appalled, but puts on a fake smile while leaving the room.

[–] footballhead (80) 5 years ago

I can say the exact same thing back to you. Yeah, because everyone is judgemental assholes and would actually care that much about a procedure that's done to lots of couples.

Grandmother aged? A 50 year old? Only if she had kids very young or her kids had kids very young. Which you could say the same thing about a 40 year old. Is a 40 year old grandmother aged?

You seem intent on beating a dead horse. The things you tried to paint as awful, are anything but. Maybe the real issue is you used the word awful, instead of something like different. I mean really, saying that Phobe being a surrogate for her brother is awful is just idiotic.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I see Ross as more of a victim. From memory he didn't know his first wife was a lesbian from the outset. She left him for another woman, sexuality aside she cheated on him. If a man left his wife for another person it would not be considered the comedy gold that the writers played this for. After that he seems to be on a constant downward spiral trying to rebound but of course keeps making wrong choices.

Rachel is just self centered. Plain and simple. They all are but she wins the trophy.

Joey is nowhere near as cool as he thinks he is and seems to have little to no interest in his chosen art form.

It was a trend of the time though exploring deeply flawed people and playing it for laughs. If you have seen Mad About You, you may notice that the wife really seems to hate her husband at times, another often used comedy device.

Everybody Loves Raymond follows a similar path.

[–] Heisenberg (6376) 5 years ago

Yes, I agree with everything you wrote.
Ross was a victim, obviously.
I'm just saying that he was not an "innocent" victim: like he cannot really just blame her only, since he repeteadly turned a blind eye on clear signals from Carol.
Hey nothing to crucify him for, but in real life that would come through as a flaw. I don't think many would be sympathetic with him, while most would think "what's wrong with him? Couldn't he tell???" or "What a naive man!" or even worse "he is such a shitty man that he couldn't see she was a lesbian/turned her into a lesbian".
But yeah, the authors wanted to exploit all these flaws for laughs, and it is a totally funny show!