No, you’re blinded by the multiverse and dimensional theories that are all the rage now. You are inserting them where they don’t belong.
If you were around in the 80s when these BTTF were released, you can comprehend them differently as simple adventure stories which present time travel in a straightforward way. It takes the usual suspension-of-disbelief, sure, but the paradox is covered.
The most important aspect of the original film from 85 was the teen photo of Marty his siblings.
He goes back, interrupts events in 1955, his parents don’t meet the way they should, etc. Nothing changes for a hell of a long time, though. Marty still exists. Why? Because there is hope for a future. George and Elaine are alive, Marty knows what he has to do, and he still has a time machine.
Once George fucks up a few times, Marty’s older siblings begin to fade from the photograph. Eventually Marty, too, until he witnesses true love’s kiss.
In II, Marty and Doc skip over the years to a theoretical future of 2015. In a similar way, Old Marty still exists there, because young Marty has every intention of returning to his time and living out his life as normal.
It’s also explicitly stated that non-travelers have a sort of cognitive transformation preventing them from realizing that anything had ever been different then it currently is. “Jennifer and Einie will be fine. And they’ll have absolutely no memory of this horrible place.”
In the Chrono Trigger story (video game) which was made around the same time, they speak of “The Entity.” This is like a time-God concept that works to prevent paradoxs. I’d say that works for BTTF as well, in a way. They call it the space-time continuum. Donnie Darko seems to use these concepts, too.
Forget the multiverse. Those are modern corporate concepts to aid in consumerism. This way they can regurgitate stories and tinker with different interpretations, and convince you to receive a new product from a parallel dimen$ion! ;-)
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dimar (2)
10 months ago
In my mind the old Marty shouldn't exist while the young Marty is absent from the whole timeline. The old Marty should only exist in the future of the future. Unless the universe is somehow aware in advance that the young Marty will return to his time line. My biggest issue with time travel is that if Doc Brown could create a time machine, so will someone else, and eventually many more will create one as well. It's the same for any other time travel story. And if you take other alien civilization out there in the universe, that would make it countless of beings doing time travel somewhere out there constantly.
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AnagramYYZ (445)
10 months ago
This is why the photograph that I mentioned from the original film of Marty and his siblings, Dave and Linda McFly, was so important to laying the ground rules for time travel in this series. Remember, since time travel is only a theoretical concept nobody can say, well, it doesn't work *that* way. It's only up to the story artist to convey the tech and the nature of reality in a digestable way and hopefully try to stay logically consistent. That is the only requirement.
In your interpretation, Marty, his brother and his sister should have ceased to exist the moment he pushed George out of the way of Lorraine's father's car—perhaps even sooner. It didn't work that way.
Filmmakers made a statement with this plot point, and used it consistently throughout the three movies. Quite satisfactorily, in fact, though it possibly requires an additional concept of an intelligent higher power governing the rules of the Universe. It would have been nice to receive some additional scenes of dialogue between Marty and Doc Brown theorizing on that concept.
If you perceive that there are issues with Young Marty/Old Marty, you are wrong because there is a similar delay as there was with the photograph. The logical conclusion is that the only way Old Marty immediately ceases to exist is if a younger Marty is killed in whatever year he happens to be in.
Intuitively, we can also say that had Griff destroyed the DeLorean instead of stealing it for a minute, and then Marty and Doc had been arrested in Hilldale and locked up, then a similar process would eventually commense where the Marty & Jennifer McFly family would slowly begin to fade out of existence beginning with youngest sibling, next youngest, etc, and then Old Marty & Jennifer themselves.
A new 30-year span (1985-2015) would then be engineered where Young Doc, Marty & Jennifer were listed as missing persons last seen in 1985 as George McFly publishes his book and Biff waxes his car.
https://youtu.be/rV7mjdGHUXY
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dimar (2)
10 months ago
Thanks
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AnagramYYZ (445)
10 months ago
My pleasure. Obviously I enjoy talking/theorizing about this, and have been doing so one way or another since they were released during my childhood.
Time travel in media tends to be portrayed differently these days. Everyone is going to push the multiverse concept pretty hard in the interest of consumerism. I’m assuming you just saw “The Flash” which mentions BTTF, sure, but definitely plays by a different set of rules.
If I can comment on your final point about the technology. Doc Brown suffered a head injury and was given a vision of the mysterious Flux Capacitor concept as part of the trauma, he states. It also requires Plutonium which is regulated and difficult to come by. So, there are obstacles thrown out there that limit the likelihood that anyone else will construct a time machine.
Doc also intends to destroy it, and is concerned about the dangers of reality manipulation.
The less said about aliens the better.
Cheers!
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ExTechOp (2757)
10 months ago
Great explanation. The only thing I'd add is the lack of necessity for an intelligent "Time God"
I had a similar issue with self-correcting history in "Lost" where, unlike BTTF, you CANNOT change history. Any attempt you make to change the past only causes it to happen.
Someone explained it to me as "monotubular spacetime," which is no more intelligent than self-repairing tires. As long as the mechanism is in place, history will take care of itself without the need for a Time God or Loki's TVA.
In BTTF, the "Time God" could be passed off as mere probability. Once changes are made in the past, the future changes only gradually as probabilities shift.
As you pointed out, Marty's interference made George and Lorraine's date and romance less likely, not impossible. Had Marty accidentally KILLED George, my guess/fan-theory is that Marty would immediately disappear; Marty or his siblings would never exist.
Though I doubt the writers thought about it this far, that'd explain why Marty disappears last. As the youngest sibling, his existence is still possible even as George and Lorraine continue to NOT fall in love.
Fun stuff regardless.
And, interesting to note, it DOES seem like 20th century time travel movies and TV subscribed mainly to the "one set future" trope. BTTF at least introduced the notion of changing the present (Twin Pine Mall becomes Lone Pine Mall). Then T2 undid Terminator's destined future.
And now we have multiverses, because producers have realized they can get fans excited about alternate versions of their favorite characters.
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