I'm not sure which one people would prefer, but I disagree with a bunch of your points.
A New Hope doesn't look cheap to me, it looks great. There are a lot of old movies with clunky effects that look way better as far as I'm concerned. Consider Conan the Barbarian. Consider Brazil. Consider Alien. Look, if they remade Alien, it'd be another generic CGI monster, and I'm not saying the movie would be bad, but that imagery wouldn't last as long or be as captivating.
I also don't think the storytelling is clunky. It feels better paced to me than TFA. The opening dogfight in The Last Jedi should have taken editing cues from Star Wars' Death Star fight. It's stellar (pun intended!); to this day I can watch it and feel thrilled by it.
As for characters, Han is great as you say, but Darth Vader is an imagination-cornering figure, Princess Leia is a great twist on the damsel in distress (three minutes after being "rescued" she tells them they're doing it wrong and grabs the blaster to help them). Obi-Wan is so well-played by Guinness that his character is wonderful, too. Okay, Luke whines, but Rey's dull as paint drying, so...
TFA does look fantastic, it's a good action movie, and I did enjoy it. Those points - that it has a good pace, it's kinetic, it never lets up, and it looks great: all true. I won't argue. But I don't think it looks better than Star Wars, nor is it better paced. It's just more modern.
As to the characters, I think the actors did a good job, but Rey isn't terribly interesting, and I don't think they're better characters than the original had.
Plus, bonus points to the OT: anybody watching those films will get a well-told story from beginning to end with satisfying character arcs. But if you start out with TFA you're in for two big, clunky let-downs.
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Quasimodo (16388)
3 years ago
I posted this topic after rewatching ' A New Hope ' last night for the first time in maybe thirty years.
Seeing it again was quite a shock to me. I thought to myself ' What a long time ago in a galaxy far far away was all the fuss about ? ' Apparently George Lucas has been messing around with the films and the version I bought is probably not the same as the original theatrical release so there is that to take into account.
But what struck me was how chaotic the film was. There were far too many people in far too small a space in the opening blaster fight between the storm troopers and the rebels for example. And the blaster special effects were primitive to say the least. Neon blaster rays going in all directions followed by great showers of sparks. People getting hit and jumping high into the air before they collapsed in a heap. It was like something out of the Keystone Cops !
Darth Vader was visually memorable and there was that wonderful voice. But who was he ? Just an anonymous moustache twirling villain vaguely and menacingly intoning about the " Dark Side of the Force ". Kylo Ren by contrast was someone we got to know very well.
Another thing I don't understand is all the negative feeling directed at Daisy Ridley and her Rey. I thought she was the heart and soul of the sequel films. These three movies are all about Rey and Kylo. Everyone else is secondary at best. They are a Dyad in the Force. This is a sensational concept and they should have made more of it.
Rey doesn't know who she is and we follow her as she makes the journey of self discovery from start to finish. On the one hand she is strong and combative and she never gives up. On the other hand she is lost and vulnerable and she cries at the drop of a hat. She is a feminine girly girl as well as being a fighter. I thought she was wonderful.
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Ace_Spade (9381)
3 years ago
My last rewatch (also very recently) was quite different from yours. I find the film more nuanced and enchanting than before. Maybe it is the edits, but maybe it's just your personal taste. Maybe you like more frenzy in your space adventure films.
Nothing about the opening bugs me. It's filled with iconic imagery like Vader's entrance and the ships pursuing each other. The fight looks like a fight to me. Okay, it's not as "realistic" as action scenes get shot and edited today, but for me it doesn't have to be. I don't mind the rubber bayonets in Zulu, either. I think kids who watch older movies don't notice and most adults I know don't care about stuff like that. Maybe you'd get some eye-rolls from teenagers, but they're practicing cynicism.
We learn that Vader was Obi-wan's apprentice and we, uh, are told that he killed Luke's father. He needs little else, and his power and mystique are built in the opaque armour. He functions in the story as the Black Knight in old Arthurian legends. The "big bad guy" is Tarkin (and the Death Star). Vader delivers what he needs. I also don't know what you mean by "moustache twirling", which implies some maniacal Snidely Whiplash tying women to train tracks. Vader is stoic, powerful, always in control, and menacing. Jones doesn't overact the voice, and Prowse's physicality is suitable and, often, quite restrained.
Kylo was probably my favourite character out of the new trilogy characters (and his arc over the movies makes me think he maybe should have been the protagonist - though not "hero", per se - of those films). So, I can't fault you there. But I don't think we got much more characterisation from Ren than Vader.
I have no negative feelings towards Daisy Ridley - she did a fine job. Rey was too good at everything and didn't have much of a personality. I didn't mind Rey; I don't hate her as many do, but I also didn't really care much about her. The Force Dyad thing was never explored well, in my opinion.
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Quasimodo (16388)
3 years ago
The criticism that Rey was too good at everything is very common. Rey is a Mary-Sue they cry ! But Luke was also too good at "everything". Suddenly he goes from flying a skimmer to flying a fighter expertly. Next thing he is leading the fighter group. Suddenly he is so proficient with a lightsaber that he can hold his own against Darth Vader ! At least Rey was well practiced and good at fighting with her long metal staff before she graduated to a lightsaber. And even then she was no match for a fit Kylo Ren in ' The Rise of Skywalker ', he could have killed her easily if he had wanted to. Rey only beat Kylo in ' The Force Awakens ' because he had been injured.
I watched ' The Empire Strikes Back ' last night and what a huge contrast it was to ' A New Hope ' ! Gone was all the clutter, chaos and cheap look. ESB was smooth, sleek and almost minimalist by comparison. But the down side of that is that it seemed clinical. ANH for all its clunkiness had charming moments. Leia mothering Luke and Luke needing mothering. The Jawas and the way they moved stirred a very dim memory of Dopey from the Seven Dwarves and the way he used to walk almost like a toddler in his robe. There was nothing like that in ESB.
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Ace_Spade (9381)
3 years ago
Again, I don't hate Rey; I have no problem with her, but, vs. Luke for power-god:
Luke fails the whole way through Episode IV. R2 tricks him into removing the bolt, the Tuskan Raiders beat him unconscious, Obi-Wan saves him from death in the bar, then calmly negotiates with Han while Luke runs his mouth, Luke then gets slapped by Han for not knowing his stuff in a cockpit (at this point in TFA, Rey is a self-sufficient salvager who beats off multiple foes, and can deftly pilot the Falcon with no flight experience at all - to the extent that she can aim Finn's guns while flying). What's next? Luke sorta gets a passing grade at a bare-minimum Jedi practice with Obi-wan. Then he plots a rescue attempt that goes tits-up (Leia saves Han and Luke), he gets strangled by a dianoga, makes it over a bridge (with help from Leia), and hops into the Falcon gun seat. He tags two fighters (his first decisive victory). He only hops into the Falcon after Obi-wan posthumously tells him to run (otherwise he'd have foolishly been gunned down in the hangar). During the trench run, he is no better pilot than anybody else, and he was established several times earlier as having a knack for flying. He only leads a squadron after having proved himself at the Battle of Yavin. During that fight, he only escapes Vader because Han shows up. Rey could use advanced Force abilities (telekinesis and mind manipulation) and Luke can't until he spends all of Empire learning. He needed training, not Rey. Rey beats the pants off of Kylo Ren after escaping basically by herself. She repairs and modifies the Falcon better than Han and Chewie (!?), she gets all the love from Leia (f--- the wookie, right?).
ANH's can-do vibe is one of the reasons I prefer it to ESB. I'll take either over TFA (or any other Star War, actually...) ESB has plenty of charm, as does RotJ. TFA is not without charms, either. But Rey is a Mary-Sue and Luke is shown developing skills - and still needs a little help from his friends.
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Quasimodo (16388)
3 years ago
The contrast between Luke and Rey is interesting. Luke is constantly ragged on by his Uncle, do this and then do that, tomorrow you will do the next thing. All stick and no carrot. His Aunt is no help as she defers to his Uncle. So Luke feels put upon and helpless. Yoda complains that for Luke everything is too difficult. Luke is a whiner and a quitter when the chips are down.
Rey from an early age has had no parents at all. She has had to grow up relying on no-one but herself. She is resilient, combative and aggressive. But as I said at the bottom of it is her feeling of being lost, having been abandoned. So she is emotionally vulnerable and brittle at the same time.
Also Rey is a Dyad in the Force. The Force was taking an active part in her life. It called her to Luke's lightsaber. The Dark Side of the Force called to her, dragged her into the cave and showed her what exactly ? Who knows. But the point is she was obviously the Chosen One, someone special. Luke just seemed to be another potential Jedi, gifted but nothing special.
But here we tend to praise our favourites, in my case Rey, and denigrate the ones we don't care so much for, in my case Luke.
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Ace_Spade (9381)
3 years ago
Luke starts as a whiner and quitter, but he progresses beyond that. He rejects the call to adventure at first, but then joins Obi-wan and starts fighting hard for what's right. I think maybe that's part of what's compelling about his arc is that he starts out as a nothing and a nobody and struggles and fails and gets back up and tries again. Luke kinda makes himself the chosen one. He isn't (Vader kind of is, but that's acknowledging the fetid mess of the prequels), but he makes himself the hero because of the actions he takes.
Rey's search for who she is and her feeling of being lost is, yes, where access to her character comes in, but I see so little of that on the screen. We get it in dialogue, but not as much in action. We're also told of the Dyad and shown how it connects Kylo and Rey, but we don't see its effect on Rey's character (only Kylo's as he is pulled back to the Light Side). Somebody as vulnerable as Rey is would surely be more susceptible to being tuned to the Dark Side. I mean, she's basically a textbook cult recruit. But she doesn't do that. She's barely even tempted, and she drops into that cave, but it doesn't alter her course. It doesn't bend her towards evil. She never struggles with her evil side.
And, again, I really felt like whatever the "Dyad" thing was was ill-explained, under-utilized, and just was a mess. It didn't seem to change anything or mean anything by the time the credits rolled on TROS.
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Ace_Spade (9381)
3 years ago
None of this really bugged me, by the way. Watching TFA, Daisy Ridley is kinda charming even if she's playing a bland role, and I didn't mind how awesome a Jedi she was, but it was poorly thought-out. It's also in keeping with J.J. Abrams' style. In Star Trek, for instance, everybody is *the best* at what they do. Spock is a science god, Uhura knows more languages than the computer, and nobody can transport-lock-on like Chekov!
In Star Wars, Po is the best pilot who ever grabbed a control column and Rey just is Force Goddess Incarnate. That's J.J.'s hyper-powered action extravaganza style. I'm down with that, I don't hate TFA, but it's a fun movie with deep flaws and storytelling/character flaws at fundamental levels. That makes it an above-average popcorn flick, but if you go digging, it doesn't have as much depth and heart as the originals had, and it doesn't hold up as much as a piece of writing.
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Ace_Spade (9381)
3 years ago
Final note: I'm just giving you my perspective, and I don't want anything I'm saying to be a criticism of yourself or anybody who finds TFA to be the best Star Wars or they're favourite. You like what you like, that's cool. I'm just saying what I see in the characters, and in the Luke v. Rey thing, I think it's an accurate comparison of the fail/success rate each hero has. If you prefer Rey: more power to you. You do you. No judgement; no criticism.
I like James Bond. I don't need every character I love to be an Oscar-bait friendly Daniel Day Lewis-type role.
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