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Sex vs Violence


I cited Game of Thrones in a thread discussing a different matter, and one person replied that the series was nothing but soft-core porn.

I responded that I thought there was much more to the show.

I was struck by the fact that the person who commented didn't seem at all bothered by the copious violence shown on GoT, which I wouldn't miss if it were reduced, especially in the very lengthy battle scenes.

My question: Are you bothered by depictions of sex, violence, both, or neither?

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Me personally, sex. Nudity is okay, for the top part, but if it shows more than that I'm not looking. Because I'm still a virgin, which makes it even more awkward.

Violence, it depends. If it's just a lot of blood, I'm fine with it. When intenstines or brain matter start pouring out along with the blood, then it makes me sick. Oberon's head being crushed was especially disturbing.

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Certainly, if some of it makes you squeamish, it's best to avoid it. Some of the sex on GoT is very cruel, and it wouldn't be good for you to get that impression of it if you're inexperienced. Ramsay's treatment of Sansa would be an example of that.

As to the violence, I think anyone who didn't feel disgust at Oberon's death, or Ramsay's torture of Theon, might have some psychological deficit.

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Yeah, I know there are good and bad ways to go about sex, to put it lightly.

Theon's torture could have been worse, though. If I remember correctly, they didn't actually show a lot of the flaying or mutilations, just strongly implied them. That, or I looked away for those scenes, lol.

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One of Ramsay's "strongly implied" mutilations of Theon would have affected you much more intensely if you were a guy.

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Dude, I am not in any way shape or form supporting Ramsay's actions. Theon's castration was horrific and not really necessary. That's a terrible, terrible thing for a man to go through. Heck, my grandmother stopped watching after that episode, but she's a huge Outlander fan.

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I meant that to be gently kidding, not to imply you were insensitive to that cruelty. This kind of communication limits nuance. I can see from your comments that you're a sensitive person. I just don't add things like "jk", 'cuz they seem lame to me. (Maybe I should reconsider.) Anyway, my apologies.

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Ah, okay. Understood. I wasn't quite sure whether you were kidding, but it seemed like you were offended to some degree. Apologizes if I wasn't clear either.

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I think it's all shaped by the censorship one grows up with as it dictates what's acceptable and what isn't. For example, US censorship tends to be just fine with lots of horrific violence, but show a nipple and it's game over. So, kids and then adults grow up not thinking twice about seeing someone's head get chopped off in a PG-13 movie or HBO show, but the minute there's a fairly graphic sex scene it's all people can talk about or admonish.

It's extremely weird, but fascinating at the same time...I also hate it, because if I were a parent or just in general as well, I'd rather a kid see some man's junk rather than someone getting stabbed 40 times over and over, ya know what I mean? It's very backwards and it's also shaped by the MPAA or whatever ratings system that particular country has which contains its own biases.

As for me personally, it goes case by case depending on context and scene. I have been bothered both by violence and sex before, but I don't have a blanket statement or attitude around it. It all is just how it's done and presented. I understand and accept it's place in stories and am fine with that on the whole, but again it's case specific, for my tastes.

Nice question, thanks for bringing these sorts of discussions up!

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@DreamersxDisease
I'm glad you found it a worthwhile topic. MovieChat seems, so far, to be the best site for a thoughtful discussion of things like this.

As has happened earlier, your comments match my views very closely, so I don't have much to add to them. Only that, in the case of sex scenes, that if the sex is not consensual (ex. Ramsay and Sansa) that it not be shown in a way which anyone would find erotic. The viewer, whomever they might be, should feel revulsion toward the perpetrator, not admiration.

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Regarding rape or any sort of sexual violence, I agree. Those are the times I have been bothered by sex scenes and the makers need to be very careful how they tread that water. Too many times it has been used as some sort of mindless catalyst for action without caring about what it really means to go through something like that or it's even glorified in some twisted way.

I wouldn't tell a director or anyone how to shoot a scene like that. If they wish to explore it from the rapists POV or whatever, that's fine and it's an artistic choice (well, I hope it'd be), but I'd prefer it be clear that this wasn't them condoning the act, but rather putting a sincere and honest spotlight on it in order for it be put out there, discussed, and seen with a critical eye. I wouldn't want to censor them like I wouldn't want them to censor me, in those terms, but it's a fine balance to walk.

Apologies to anyone concerning such a sensitive subject.

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Neither really bothers me that much generally. Not that it doesn't affect me, but I don't mind having both positive and negative reactions to what I watch. It depends on what the intent behind it is, how it's executed or if there’s an actual point to it.

But in a broader sense, out of the two I have a problem with violence. Especially when it gets in the extremes of: violence without any real consequences or basically turning torture into fun entertainment. I think it’s irresponsible not to show the real consequences of violence, or to use it in a way that turns human life into something that has no value.

Nudity is a none issue for me. And I don’t see what the big problem with depicting sex is (though I have a bit of a problem when it’s done in an exploitative manner). Kids are not going to become perverts after seeing people having sex in a movie or TV show (not all of them at least :D).

And I think the ratings and the censorship have kind of become useless or pointless with the Internet. The ratings can still be used a guide, but let’s be honest, they’re not going to stop people, teens especially, from seeing things. Not when they can go online and find anything their hearts desire.

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Isn't it odd that people get weird-ed out by something they all, mostly do? I.e. sex
I've always been confused by that. Like why is watching a fake version of something you actually have done yourself so bad or wrong to you? I don't know, the way they've demonized sex and have glorified violence will never make sense to me...

I largely agree with most of your message too. Sex and violence with a point or consequence to it is fine, but when done gratuitously it can be really jarring and at worst irresponsible or harmful even. Other than that though I'm pretty okay with it being depicted as part of a bigger story.

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That's the part of the point I failed to express. Even if the viewer has never experienced sex, it's a nearly 100% probability that his or her parents did.

So why stigmatize it? I don't know that anyone has ever determined that with certainty, but I wonder if the powers that be want to normalize killing and desensitize us to it, since so much of what those elites want to accomplish involves the taking of millions of lives. Who can say for sure? We can be quite certain that sex will never further their objectives, and it might be more difficult to wind up a satiated populace.

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Maybe it’s much less awkward for parents for explain violence to their children, than sex. But just because it’s awkward, it doesn’t mean you should ignore it. It’s far better, in my view, for a child to view depictions of sex with a parent or a trusted adult, because then you can explain things and keep them from getting misinformed. Use those opportunities and open a line of communication. Because when they go off exploring these things (or even coming across them by accident) on their own, they know they can come to you for advice or an explanation.

And culture definitely plays a part in it as well. I’ve noticed that the rating system where I live is much more laxed, than it is in the US. Especially when it’s concerning sex and language (though language is mainly due to the fact that you can translate around it, I think). Just looking at what’s in the theaters right now, La La Land has PG 13 in the States, but no age restriction here. Fist Fight has an R rating in the States (due to language and sexual content/nudity), but a C here (no child under 12 without an adult). Logan and John Wick 2 both have an R in the States, but have a D here (which is like an NC-17, but with anyone below 16). And we also have an X rating, for below 18.

As for adults, if it bothers you, that’s perfectly fine. Everyone has a different idea of what’s appropriate, or what they’re comfortable with. But don’t assume other people feel the same way, and try to censor it for everybody else. If you’re an adult you should be able to curate what you view, without making a big fuss over how it’s detrimental to society.

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I'm sure a parent would prefer talking about violence over sex, you almost don't even have to explain it because the physical act of it is, usually, so apparent. Plus, parents can look better when discussing this because most people would be righteous about that and get to say, "violence is never the answer," and all that....with sex it's a little harder, especially because they've done it! And god help them when the two, sex and violence, collide.

Although the nuances, emotions, and motivations over explaining both of these things is where the real stickiness comes in, but those often don't get talked about precisely because it's too uncomfortable. I have no idea if this is making any sense, haha, so I'll stop here.

But your country's rating system sounds like it gives harsher ratings to violence than sex or language, which I would personally agree with. It's becoming less and less prudish otherwise though, most cuss words are allowed on tv, even fuck, which I'm hearing more and more. It's not even the tv shows that are doing this it's things like the FCC or sponsors...if it were up to the shows I'm sure they'd be quite free about it.

As someone whose own parents didn't monitor what they watched all that much, I'm pretty thankful for it. Maybe it made me know things I shouldn't have too early or whatever, but I think it's helped me be a wiser, more informed person that has been able to cultivate their own taste without much interference of what I should and shouldn't see. Generally, I think kids can and will find it out for themselves and be able to differentiate between something that seems right or wrong even on screen. When I saw someone being murdered in a movie I knew that was something awful and when I saw a sexual scene, I felt a bit naughty for seeing it that young, but I also knew that it wasn't necessarily a bad act in the same way that murder was, ya know?

Give the kids some credit, and as an adult just be smart about it, and let people watch what they want for the most part and be done with it.

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What you said made perfect sense to me, and I agree.

The two ratings systems seem to be set up differently. We have psychologists, and representatives from the appropriate ministries and the film industry. While, from my understanding, it’s mainly regular parents in the MPAA. Or maybe they’re not, but it’s difficult to know, since they’re anonymous (correct?). And there are also ratings that are set up for educational content, promoting humanism and culture, etc. But out system is also mandatory. You can’t screen unrated movies. If that’s better or not, I don’t know. Maybe this is unnecessary information :D, but I found the differences interesting.

Our parents seem to have similar attitudes when it comes to monitoring what we saw. I too, saw things that probably weren’t very appropriate at a younger age, but it helped me develop my own tastes and sensibilities. And those continue to develop and change as I get older.

I think kids have an ability to edit out things that aren’t relevant to them at that moment. And yeah, we should give them more credit.

Basically, I agree with everything that you wrote :)

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The MPAA is anonymous, yes, and is made up of parents. They've also admitted to their own biases and that it's all a matter of perception rather than any sort of science or statistics or what may be involved.

I watch a show that handled this topic slightly (I couldn't find the specific clip, so I went that spot on the show, so just stop whenever they stop talking about the ratings board b/c it's the entire episode, unless you're interested, haha): Stupid MPAA

I find the differences interesting too, so information very much not unnecessary :p How it's handled and viewed around the world is a really weird yet insightful thing and if people realized that it's as malleable of a concept like that, going country to country, than maybe we'd be a little more lax on it. Eh, probably not.

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Yeah, I agree, probably not. Things like that take for something pretty big happening, for them to change. But looking at other countries' experience could be useful nonetheless.

I checked out your link. It's pretty interesting (the whole thing). I've seen clips of the show on Youtubes suggestions, but never clicked. Now I might check out some more :)

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I love that show, it's really great. Good idea to mix comedy with information to keep people interested! I'd recommend checking out more of it if you liked that, some neat stuff in there.

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Yes, it seems like a nice mix. I'll definitely check out more. Thanks for the recommendation :)

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Gratuitous sex and violence is annoying.

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I second that.

If i have to choose, I'd far prefer being shown sex over violence. Too often the two are linked, and are written/shown primarily for ratings = gratuitous.

I avoid films/TV shows that I know to be violent. Unless it's integral to the show/film, in which case I can tolerate it. What we don't need, culturally, societally, is for violence (or gratuitous sexuality, for that matter) is to become the norm that we're numbed to for the sake of ratings or shock value.

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@Catbookss

I strongly agree. I avoid what I consider to pathologically violent content, which I'd define as any TV show or film which exists as nothing more than a vehicle to deliver "violence porn", as I think of it.

And the harm, in my view, isn't necessarily that it makes viewers themselves more violent (as some have argued), but that it numbs them, as you say, and makes them indifferent and callous toward violence being inflicted on fellow human beings in the real world.

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I feel the urge to mention something about getting off my high horse because I can't sit here and say that I haven't partaketh some porno movie watching.

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It's a part of life so I have no problem with either of them as long as they are intelligently or coherently depicted. If people are offended, they should use resources available that help them avoid seeing these things.

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Exactly.

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If it's a natural part of the story, I have no problem with either. But I think sex scenes are more often gratuitous. It seems they just want to show some boobies. They're also less realistic. Violence is almost always portrayed as ugly and disgusting, while sex is hot and clean. As if...

I also think most people would rather watch a violent scene than a sex scene with their parents. Sex is more personal and intimate, while violence is usually more distant.

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Boobies 😁

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I have to say that I was a little incredulous when a fair number of teens I know told me that they'd watched Deadpool with their parents. I could not have imagined watching something like that with mine. Not that it wasn't entertaining, but I just can't see having watched it with any adult, especially parents, when I was a kid.

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I haven't seen Deadpool, so I don't know why it would feel strange to watch it with one's parents. But I did see Halloween: H20 with my own parents back when I was a teen.

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I'm not nuts about seeing sex stuff on tv but I'm not Mary Poppins either.

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Neither bother me, if well done. But I wont watch "torture porn" movies like Saw, Hostel etc.

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Same here. I make a definite distinction between violence intrinsic to the plot and sadism, or what I'd also term "violence porn", the simple infliction of pain for the sick joy of it.

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I made the mistake of watching "I spit on your grave 2". Talk about disturbing sex and violence, just for the sake of it. I didn't watch that one in it's entirety. It was truly repulsing, and I don't use that word lightly.

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