MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > Steve at the end of the film

Steve at the end of the film




TLDR: Old Steve has always been around, laying low and staying out of history's way.


So the Russos are saying old Steve came from an alternate timeline

But Markus & McFeely (the writers) are saying he's been in the same timeline all along

Arguably, the directors "own" the final product and their say-so overrules everyone else (although I still side with Harrison Ford over Ridley Scott on the Deckard/replicant issue).

But I'm starting to come around to the writers' viewpoint.

First, they were clearly keeping the question of Peggy's husband secret throughout all the films. The idea that he might be a time-traveling Steve was likely always in Feige's head.

Second, the big one, is why Steve would stand aside and let Hydra run Shield, let New York get trashed, let Ultron airlift Sokovia, etc. How could someone of his unshakeable principles just stand by?

But then I thought ... that's EXACTLY what someone of unshakeable principles would do ... IF HE KNEW IT'S WHAT HE'D ALREADY DONE.

In other words, Steve already knows that the timeline(s) must be preserved. That's why he's going to return all the stones himself. Once he then settles in 1940, he'd know that his first priority is to preserve the timeline, no matter how much he'd want to get involved. Presumably, Peggy would understand this as well.

One problem, where'd he get the shield he gave to Sam?

I supposed he could've brought it from an alternate timeline while returning the stones. If we take the Ancient One's words literally (and presume she's correct, which she hasn't always been), removing the stones creates alternate timelines. Removing a shield might not.

Certainly, there's no indication that Clint's son's missing baseball glove did any damage.

And of course it's also possible that Peggy, with her connections, got enough vibranium from, say, the ruins of Sokovia, to build a new shield. So when old Steve says it's Sam's shield, no one else's, he's being quite literal.

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I think it's safe to say that when Cap went back in time, he created another timeline/dimension in which he lived out his life with Peggy and still did what he did in the original timeline, probably retiring after Civil War, since he has to meet and bond with Sam in order to give him the shield in the future. I'm inclined to think that Frozen Cap is the one who fights in Infinity War and Endgame.

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This is exactly what I've been saying all along. I don't know how it's possible (given the time-travelling rules set in this film), but it seems that the timeline Steve lives out his life with Peggy in is the main timeline. I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

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wait a minute...

the Russos are saying old Steve came from an alternate timeline

But Markus & McFeely (the writers) are saying he's been in the same timeline all along.

I'm confused. who's right? and who's wrong?


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You’re right, that’s who

In other words it’s very much up to your interpretation and I think purposely so

An argument could be made that the Russos “own” the final product, but they’re actually kind of wishy-washy on this point - I believe the actual line is “Steve COULD have just lived in an alternate timeline”

Meanwhile, the writers have been setting this up since winter soldier

And like some other poster (Buttholio?) said, even in an alternate timeline Steve would be stealing Peggy from her original husband, not to mention the frozen Steve already in that timeline. That’s very unlike him

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Based on the rules set forth in the movie, the Russos have to be right. Going back in time and changing anything creates a new timeline that branches out from that point. He returned to 1945 and created a timeline in which Captain America didn't disappear, and instead continued to do Captain America-y things, which most likely included rescuing Bucky, shutting down Hydra, maybe ending the Cold War earlier, and who knows what else.

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The only set-in-stone rules they put IN the movie are:

(1) removing a stone creates a diverging timeline (and putting it back fixes the problem)

(2) you can't change the past

The film never said changing things creates a new timeline - just taking a stone.

Now, of course, the movie DID show them changing things BIG time, but it didn't confirm that those changes resulted in new timelines. Those changes most definitely did not change the present in 2023, so it's possible they formed alternate timelines. But it's also possible that those alternate realities collapsed or course-corrected or somesuch. We just don't know.

And like some of us would like to think - even in an alternate timeline, Steve wouldn't steal Peggy from her mysterious husband or from the frozen Steve of that alternate timeline.

But you're right about the Russos - they own the final product, so what they say is the "law" so to speak

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Rewatch the film-- taking an Infinity Stone is not required for changing a timeline. Once you go back into the past, you are immediately creating a new timeline, whether you interact with an Infinity Stone or not. If I go back in time and find my 15-year-old self and kill him, I won't cease to exist. I've simply killed the version of me that exists in that timeline. I don't have to also swipe an Infinity Stone in order to remain alive. I'll stay alive because I didn't kill my past self, I killed a different version of myself, in a different reality, in my present, which is currently transpiring in the past.

The Ancient One explained that if the Hulk took the Time Stone, the timeline she was in would meet an awful fate. His promise to return it did not mean that their timelines were one, only that she would always have the Time Stone on hand to protect the planet.

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