I imagine someone with a DC bias will dispute this, but I don't think an unbiased film lover can make a strong case to the contrary.
^^^
I think pretty much anyone who goes by the Majority consensus would dispute most of the things you said
every single thing you said is fine, but Just not the Majority consensus....
When ranking and rating films, for me the only way I can do it is to go by the Majority consensus...NO film is universally loved or hated
A Great film will have some that dislike and vice versa....
But Majority Consensus is about the only concrete way you can judge a film...
and I'm just gonna go down the list here-
I'm not convinced that the Dark Knight trilogy is the consensus favorite. I know the second film gets a lot of praise, most deserved, but the third film is considered somewhat crappy. Even the first doesn't seem to get mentioned much in the "great CBM discussions."
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This is entirely your opinion...and the Majority consensus is not the same
The Dark Knight is considered the Greatest CBM ever by The Majority....over the last 5 years on almost every single "Poll" ..."Best CBMs" List or articles....The Dark Knight is almost Always number 1 or 2..The Avengers and The Dark Knight are #1 and 2 on damn near every list and poll..and The Dark Knight is Numbers 1 more, Its about 65%/35%.but TDK is the 65% being number 1
The Dark Knight also has The Ratings,Reviews and stats to put it in the conversation
I'm in no way saying "Everyone" thinks The Dark Knights the Greatest, In fact as I pointed out, The Avengers is right there with it, But The Majority does consider it the Greatest
Next You opinion on TDKR isnt even close to what the majority thinks(which is probably why you dont agree TDKT is #1) if you really believe TDKR is crappy, then you have a very different opinion than MOST
TDKR is Universally considered a step down from TDK....but Its a step down from the Greatest(Or One of the greatest) CBMs of all time, which puts it in the ggood to very good range....Based on any way you judge a film from ratings, reviews, audience scores, box office and "Polls" and Lists....TDKR is consider Good to very good by the Majority...Its in no way in the same class as TDK or The Avengers, I dont think many consider it a top 5 CBM...But it is a Universally Liked film
As for Batman Begins, Its in the same boat as TDKR....Not as Great as TDK, but based on all data, The Majority consider it a good to very good film.,..your right its not in the discussion for Greatest CBMs ever,but it is in almost every discussion for The Best "Origin" CBM..
The Dark Knight trilogy is considered the best CBM trilogy right now at least based on the Majority consensus....that Consensus may in fact be something like 55/45 right now, With the Cap trilogy completed and other trilogies completed, the Majority consensus may be shrinking, but its still the consensus...
The Consensus is, its got 1 ALL TIME great films and 2 good to very good films(its clear you disagree and thats why you do feel the same, But the Majority doesnt see TDKR as crappy...)
The Avengers is unquestionably a better film than any of the 3 Batman films. It works from start to end, unlike The Dark Knight, which falls apart after Rachel dies, and is more or less nonsensical from that point on. Only Heath Ledger's performance carries that film.
^
again, just your opinion, and theres probably a lot of others that agree, But not The Majority..
The Avengers and The Dark Knight are extremely close, I think The stats slightly put TDK above The Avengers but they are close enough, its completely within reason to say The Avengers is better(but again thats not the Majority consensus, TDK has topped The Avengers on Lists and Polls more than Avengers topped TDK)
and your thoughts on TDK are not at all what the majority thinks, Its like a 90/10% spilt that The Dark Knight is Great...If you had problems with the story, thats completely fine, but your in a small minority
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billbrown7071 (3193)
6 years ago
on this one...
Age of Ultron is about on par with Batman Begins. Both have their ups and downs.
^^^
Its not....Based on reviews, Ratings and stats....AOU isnt on par with Batman begins...
Based on any way you judge a film, AOU was a bigger step down from The Avengers than TDKR was from TDK...
The Majority consensus for Batman begins seems to good to great....for AOU its above average to good...
they are close, but AOU is a clear measurable step down from BB...
But its perfectly fine that You like AOU better, Opinion cant be wrong, Just has long as you statement them as Opinions
Obviously, we have to wait for part 4 to judge the series as a whole, but I don't believe a credible case can be made that the Batman trilogy is nearly as good as the Avengers trilogy to this point.
^^^
then your not going by the Majority consensus...
If your judging films in a different way, If you have a different scale that proves the Avengers is better....then fine, But thats not what I'm going by in This thread, I stated it it the post I was going by the Majority consensus...
and quite simply, Theres not 1 piece of data you could point to that suggest The Avengers Trilogy is considered better BY MAJORITY than TDKT...
The Avengers, AOU and AIW....doesnt have the stats to beat TDKT....
Now if you replace AOU with Civil War...
IMO then The Avengers, Civil War and AIW....Has the stats and Consensus to top TDKT...
but AOU is the weak link here...
AOU is Just a clear step below BOTH TDKR and BB(at least based on Ratings,Reviews and The Majority Consensus)
PS...al this is coming from a massive MCU fan, I watch The MCU films all the time, and havent watched TDK films in years...
I ENJOY almost every single MCU film more than TDK films...but I just cant ignore facts...
I also Hate The ending of TDKR...I think the last 10 minutes of TDKR is one of the worst endings I've ever seen and Literally doesnt make sense, I truly believe Had Anyone other than Nolan directed that ending it would have got Torn apart...
The shot where They literally "Show Batman" still in "The Bat" 4 seconds before the bomb goes off, Is literally the dumbest and CHEAPEST scenes ever....Its simply not possible for Batman to have escaped...
That scene was intentionally shot because they felt Audiences would not believe Batman was going to die under any circumstances, so they intentionally threw in a scene showing Batman was still in The cockpit 4 second before the past to Make Audiences believes he really died...But that scene ONLY works if Batman is in fact DEAD or you show how he IMPOSSIBLY escaped A Nuclear past within 4 seconds....
I hate the scene and The ending....But I completely recognize I'm in The Minority here, Most did not have a problem with the ending....
Basically what I'm getting at is, I can see how my replies could come across as extremely "DC biased" or Nolan Biased....But I'm trying to point out, I Like almost All The MCU films more, I never watch TDK films because they are not enjoyable and I have big Problems with parts of TDK films...I'm also deeply disgusted by the DCEU films...
Point is....I'm entirely just going by the Majority consensus here...no biased, No favorites....I'm just going by facts and stats....and Those stats and facts equal a majority consensus...
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billbrown7071 (3193)
6 years ago
You can also rank the films, and judge that way:
Infinity War
The Avengers
The Dark Knight
Batman Begins / Age of Ultron (more or less equal)
The Dark Knight Rises
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My ratings would be----
My Favorite(Meaning My personal Opinion on My favorite films based on enjoyment and rewatch value)-
The Avengers
Infinity War/The Dark Knight---TIE-(I do feel TDK probably is the better overall movie and better made movie, although thats even hard to say, I have so much respect for what was accomplished in IW)
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Begins
Age of Ultron
If I were ranking which are The Best Overall Films-
The Dark Knight---10/10
The Avengers---10/10
Infinity War---9/10
The Dark Knight Rises---8.5/10
Batman Begins----8.5/10
Age of Ultron---7/10
If I were ranking Based on The Majority consensus-
The Dark Knight
The Avengers
Infinity War
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Begins
Age of Ultron
* I personally also believe If A4 is as good or better than AIW and has A complete storyline ....I feel in the coming years A 3 and 4 Will be looked at as 1 film, and Will take The place as The Majority consensus Greatest CBM ever from TDK
I also believe If Thanos is as good or better in A4 and Is giving A story that completes his ark....I think Thanos Will be considered With Ledgers Joker as The Greatest CBM villain of all time...
I think right now....Thanos is considered the 2nd best CBM villain of all time...I think If Thanos would be ranked #2 on the Majority of Polls and Lists
I think Ledgers Joker due to The ICONIC performance and Due to his Unfortunate death Will always Be considered The Best "Villain In CBM" history...I think that will always be the "Majority consensus or how it will seem"
But I do think If Thanos is Great in A4, that over the next 4 or 5 years, It Will be a near 50/50 split on Polls and Lists for whos the CBM movie villain....
I think Ledgers Joker will always Have The "title" as Best CBM villain, But I find that Facts could point to a TIE
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FilmBuff (6786)
6 years ago
You make many assumptions, and throw out numbers that seem made up but treat them like statistics. 90/10 split? 55/45 right now? Am I missing something, or are those completely made up numbers, i.e. your guesses?
There really is no one metric we can use to prove which is the "best trilogy," but some things I consider:
1. My own personal opinion - shared that above. The Avengers trilogy is much more even than The Dark Knight. TDK trilogy has too many plot holes, weak moments, and only one great film. The Avengers trilogy holds up to scrutiny, and has two excellent films. This is all opinion, but it can be backed up by analysis of he films, and is different than an opinion along the lines of "Batman is the best" or "DC sucks."
Edge - Significant to Avengers
2. Audience response - Avengers is the clear winner here. All 3 films are among the top 8 best-selling films of all time. TDK films don't come close, and that says a lot. Batman is far more well-known domestically and around the world than any of the characters in the Avengers, or the Avengers themselves, and yet one of the trilogy doesn't even show up in the top 100, and the other two sit at 22 and 34. This tells me a LOT about the global consensus regarding the films.
Edge - Massive to Avengers
3. Critics - Opinions are about equal overall when you compare the Rotten Tomatoes critical ratings. TDK films average out to 88% positive reviews, The Avengers 83%.
Edge - Slight to TDK
4. Film Sites-- I put a lot less stock in these, as they are easily gamed, and reflect the opinions of a small group of people who actively rate films online. Cinemascore is the only one that doesn't suffer from this, as it is a random survey of people exiting the theater after viewing the film.
Cinemascore - TDK - all 3 got an A
Avengers - 1st one got an A+ other two got an A
Edge - Tiny to Avengers
Using real data, the consensus is the Avengers trilogy is better.
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