https://screenrant.com/rogue-one-jyn-erso-survive-star-wars-different-changes/
Jyn Erso and her team in Rogue One were killed on Scarif, which wasn't the original plan. Here's how Star Wars would change if Jyn survived Rogue One.
My theories would be...
1) The Rogue One team gets pursued, just as Leia was, and captured. They would then be interrogated about the plans. That one dude already had his brain barbecued pretty hard, so I'm guessing he'd crack and spill everything. Then the Rogue One team are POWs.
1a) They would not take that lying down, so they would break out, probably too late for Yavin but just in time for Hoth. Being the danger squad they are, they would probably lay down their lives at Hoth. It's possible Cassian Andor would escape, since as a pilot he'd maybe be helping with the evac. But, I'm thinking this is where they die. However, I like to imagine that R1 would go hardcore enough to turn Hoth into less of a curb stomp for the Empire and make it cost them dearly. Probably not a complete Pyrrhic victory, but not as decisive.
1b) IF Jyn Erso survived Hoth as well, she'd scatter with the rest of the Rebels and regroup at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. She might steal the 2nd Death Star plans, or at least be involved with this operation, but I have a feeling by that point she'd be running ops, not working them.
1c) If she was running ops, she'd most likely be involved in the attack on the Endor shield bunker, not in the space battle. By this point, it's hard to imagine her going down in the final fight, so I give her better than even chances of making it out alive.
2) Let's assume that R1 not only survives the battle on Scarif, but escapes - Vader et al. are more concerned with the Tantive IV than R1, maybe. If that's the case, I'd expect them to head to Yavin and participate in the fight against the Death Star. As we know, odds are SLIM of surviving trench runs, but Cassian Andor might just do that. I still think Luke nails the Death Star (the Force was what enabled him to win, not piloting) but maybe, thanks in part to the R1 team, more pilots make it home. Everything else would play out the same as in my previous outline.
3) This is almost an alternate of 2... There's a possibility that the Rogue 1 team surviving Scarif means that the Rebels die on Yavin. Why? If Cassian Andor or one of the other R1 members takes Red 5 instead of Luke (which makes some logical sense, anyway) and they run out of ships for Luke to fly, the Rebels lose their Force-tuned pilot who makes the shot. There's a pretty good youtube video on why the computers never would have hit the mark, it was only Luke's guidance by Obi-Wan coming to fruition that made his shot possible. If both of those theories are true, it's possible that nobody makes it to the end of the trench and bulls-eyes the exhaust port, which means the Rebels would be reduced to a handful of survivors in X-wings and the Millennium Falcon, and that would basically be the end, because nobody could come back from that, unless you're writing The Last Jedi...
4) One more. It's possible that the R1 team would escape and pursue the plans, which would result in a much different version of A New Hope. Mos Eisley would have been subjected to a much more brutal fire fight, for instance, if the R1 team caught up with Luke and company there. They'd get into a big fight with the Imperial forces. Would they follow Luke to Alderaan? Would they try to confiscate R2-D2 and wind up in a rivalry with Luke?
My guess is that they'd fight alongside Luke, Han, and company, and then jump to Alderaan with them. This would probably result in their deaths, or at least captures, because they wouldn't have Han's smuggling hold (did they? I can't remember their ship very well). If so, again, the firefight in the detention level would be increased by several orders of magnitude. After this, off to Yavin.
One thing... If Jyn and the R1 team had somehow managed to leave Scarif and join the Rebellion (see below), I think they'd have become Rebel *spies* rather than foot soldiers! Or assassins, or commandos, the sort of people who are sent off-base to get information, steal things, get persons or contraband from here to there, destroy stuff, or kill people. And as such, they might well have been away when the Battle of Hoth or the Battle of Endor happened.
But I'm okay with them not surviving. I'm tired enough of the Hollywood Ending where only the most attractive man and woman survive the dangerous situation, that I appreciate that they had the gonads to use an unexpected ending.
You're right, they might have been spies, although you're probably more right with "black ops" commando stuff. Also, it would depend on which team members. Jyn is the black ops type, but Cassian was basically just off-brand Han Solo, so he'd be doing a slightly different version of whatever Han was doing.
I doubt Donnie Yen (I don't remember blind guy's name) would keep going very long. It seemed unlikely he'd keep going.
Regardless, because the rebels gathered at Hoth and had to evacuate, I'd think they'd be helping there, but maybe not. Maybe they'd be involved in pilfering Death Star #2's plans, too.
Either way, they'd almost definitely be part of Strike Team Endor if they were commandos.
I don't think the Rebellion had enough staff to have both designated commandoes and designated spies, and I think Andor was doing a bit of spying when we met him in R1, getting in touch with that contact-who-had-doubts guy. So I think that any surviving members of the R1 team would have been out there doing whatever needs doing, and there HAD to be deaths among them given the line about people dying, they'd even act as foot soldiers if need be. But I still think they'd make much better spies or commandoes than foot soldiers.
And "the blind guy" is Chirrut (and IMHO he's the second most attractive man on the team, but the blind mystic never gets the girl so no Hollywood ending for him). I actually wonder what the Rebels would have done with him if he'd lived - send him on missions where he can use his fairly powerful abilities? Keep him around the base to use as a source of information or early warnings? Could he read the minds of prisoners? All of the above? Well, whatever they used him for, he'd have been given special "early boarding" privileges on Hoth.
Yeah, they might have been doing a lot of different jobs, but I agree with you that "commando" would be the likeliest designation. Most of the time they'd be blowing stuff up, but they'd also spy and occasionally just "soldier".
I think of Chirrut as Zatoichi because the "blind samurai" trope is in play. He was one of the less-forgettable Rogue One members. I think his participation would be almost a coin flip. He went where his instincts and insights guided him, so he might have just gone home after a one-off mission. He might have helped Luke wrangle his Force abilities.
I am totally okay with using Samurai movie tropes in "Star Wars", what with "The Hidden Fortress" and all. Plus, I like all the rag-tag-band-of-heroes characters in this movie, particularly Chirrut and Baze. I liked their chemistry together, I liked the work the actors did, and I particularly liked meeting a Force user who presumably wasn't a Jedi knight.
And it is nice to think of Chirrut surviving, and Luke having not just a living teacher, but a teacher who wasn't a Jedi knight. As I've said before, many times, I have issues with the Jedi, I don't like the idea of people with supernatural abilities acting as an arm of government, and I sure as hell don't like the idea of any institutional organization taking little kids away from their family! So I do like the idea of Luke having two teachers, a Jedi and a non-Jedi, because that might have led him to question The Jedi Way instead of believing that everything the Jedi ever did was wonderful. But well. Chirrut didn't survive.
Oh, I'm 100% okay with utilizing those tropes and archetypes for Star Wars because, as you say, it fits the lore. Chirrut could have been the monk to Obi-wan's samurai master.
I'll grant Rogue One that it is neat seeing a Force user who is non-Jedi/Sith. That's interesting, and I'd have liked to spend more time with Chirrut and his other Whills (I'm pretty sure that's what he was).
I, too, have problems with the way the Jedi were portrayed in the prequels. There was a lot that, in my opinion, wasn't thought through (like taking the children so young, not being allowed to marry, etc.) that took them away from how they were shown in the OT. It's one of many reasons I strongly dislike the PT, and it would have been nice to see a more nuanced Jedi Order at full strength, or at least get the sense that the Order was in decline (but then what are we to think of Yoda if he is the chief of the decliners?) So, yeah: big problems with the PT. Bad eggs.
Perhaps we'll see more of the Whills (correct per five seconds of googling), if they ever make anything in the Old Republic or Prequel era.
And as for the prequels, I like them a lot more than some fans do, because IMHO there's a lot of really interesting stuff going on... once the camera moves away from those two young idiots. And IMHO one of the interesting things going on was that the Jedi order was definitely in decline (which should have been made more obvious), they were losing contact with the Force, and were acting as an arm of the government rather than keeping the government honest, and seemed awfully hidebound. That happens in any institution over time, when mistakes happen new rules are made to prevent that mistake from happening again, and over a long period of time there are so damn many rules that nobody can get anything done. I even suspect they didn't always take little kids away from their families, things were probably a lot freer in the old days, but maybe after they created the first few Anakin-type monsters, they decided that they needed complete control over their recruits, from early childhood on, and so what if they traumatized the children and broke the hearts of families as a result.
Years ago, I'd have been excited to dive into Old Republic lore and the lives of early Force users and the different approaches to religion in Star Wars, but now... after decades of prequels and sequels just basically stomping on potential... I don't think I'd care. To me, this has been the greatest tragedy with each new instalment of Star Wars is that it doesn't feel special any more. The thought of Star Wars used to be so fun, but now it's just some merchandising machine. Okay, it always was, but it's more and more apparent; it feels like it's gone corporate or something.
My two big complaints with the Prequels (and they're related) are that the lore is disappointing and the story is poorly told. Both basically amount to laying waste to vast fields of potential. Anakin's rise and fall could have been a brilliant character study and tragic arc of a person who starts a hero and becomes corrupt. It isn't. Its potential is wasted. The decline of the Jedi could have been interesting, but all the Jedi dialogue is stiff and awkward, all of that is in the background, and the most we get are exposition-dump lines like, "Our ability to use the Force is diminished," but in classic Prequel fashion, it's all talk and no action. It's tell-don't-show, like how 85% of Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship is references to events we never saw. "That time we fell into that nest of gundarks," they say, as though it means anything to us and can replace character development.
At the end of the PT, I was left feeling like there was this door. On the other side of it was wonder and adventure, and a vast tapestry of storytelling. I wasn't allowed to go through. "That's the Republic stuff," they said, and I was content with the mystery and with the OT. Then they said, "Okay, go in!" and it was a room with a mural of adventures and a foggy window looking out over the wonder I had imagined.
You weren't one of those people screaming "GEORGE LUCAS RUINED MY CHILDHOOD" back in the day, were you? So yeah, I know how some fans feel about the prequels, but anyone who hates the prequels is... missing *some* good stuff. Which is hidden behind the two young idiots.
And I myself am okay with more Star Wars content, at least for now. I work at a very high-stress job, and there's nothing I like more for an evening at home than some escapism on the TV! So yes, I watch it all.
Pleased to report that I've never blamed Lucas for ruining my childhood. My childhood is safe. The closest he's come to wrecking anything is starting this trend of not releasing the original trilogy in its original form. He kinda did once, but with malicious compliance so it's panned and scanned and has no sound or picture restoration. I think he's a bit petty for doing that, but he didn't wreck anything. I just use my TV's zoom function to make the picture bigger and voila: instant OT. It's all right there.
There are good things going on in the PT, but they squandered potential and saddled the good stuff with a lot of bad stuff. So, I'm also not here to say they're awful movies. I think they miss the mark a tonne, but they're like, 5 or 6/10. They're not dreck. There's value, it's just low value and combined with the potential, they're just disappointing.
Well, to me. I'm also not going to say others shouldn't love them; it's your life and aesthetic tastes. If you dig it, great. We can talk about why we like/dislike them, but I'm not saying I'm right.
Escapism is great, and again, if you're digging stuff: more power to you. I don't like that it's become just another money printer. I'm sad for LOTR for the same reason. Tolkien's worlds are being pillaged by people who don't care about his ideas, and I'm not saying Rings of Power is evil (I haven't watched it) or that the new LOTR stuff won't be good, it's just an intangible shift in the air about the thing that changes when you see it being milked like a cow.
Haven't seen "The Rings of Power" because I refuse to give Bezos any of my money, so I hope I'm not missing much. Had a look at the boards a while ago, but it was mostly full of the usual assholes screaming in outrage about the cast not being white enough.
So since neither of us has watched that show, let's not discuss it.
Yeah, I didn't watch it because of the outrage, but not because I was pro- or anti-, but because I couldn't get the political conversation out of my head. I wouldn't have been watching it with a clear mind, all I'd be doing was second-guessing how "woke" or "Tolkien-accurate" it was, and I didn't want to do that. If I couldn't give it a fair shake for its own sake, I wasn't going to dive in there. I found the flag-waving in interviews (about how wonderful it was to be so progressive) to be cringey and annoying, but of course, that doesn't mean anything really about the programme itself. I also hate the idea that Tolkien's world couldn't include different skin tones among the peoples of Middle Earth.
I was pleased that nobody was talking about crazy sex scenes. When they green-lit the project, Game of Thrones was still pretty big and I was worried they'd try to go full Westeros with the high levels of sex and nudity, which would be a real slap to Tolkien's face.
But, yes, I haven't seen it, so I have no real opinion. I do plan to watch it some day, but only after I can clear my mind a bit. Most of the time I can, but I'm paranoid about Tolkien because I love it so much.
I can respect not wanting any of your dollahs to find their way to Bezos' pocket. You're not really missing much. Most of the Amazon Prime shows are good, but not amazing. The Expanse is really cool, and I've heard great things about Good Omens (which I also will watch eventually).
Pity about "Good Omens", but I watched the bits with Tennant and Sheen on youtube, because I read the book and am happy to skip the rest. But since it was made by the BBC, maybe I should just get BBC streaming and cut out Bezos!
There might be DVDs available, too. Again, I've just heard it's awesome, I haven't seen it myself, but I've heard its awesome from people I know and trust - not just reviews - and I also am a big fan of the late Sir Terry and the still-on-time (thank goodness) Neil Gaiman.
Go for it! Cut out Bezos!
Let me grab this opportunity to join the crowd that recommends Good Omens. It's a good show - granted, I have not read the book, so I took it as a standalone miniseries, I cannot judge the quality of the adaptation.
And it's Tennant! Enough said, I guess :-)
I'll watch it! I'll watch it!
share"I just use my TV's zoom function to make the picture bigger and voila: instant OT. It's all right there."
Well... if you want to experience the best version of the unaltered OT, I recommend giving a shot to the Despecialized Edition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmy%27s_Despecialized_Edition
It's a shame that a Czech English teacher had to do it - but he did, and it's better than any release of the unaltered OT... well, there is not much competition as we know, but this one is in HD (and a 4k version is also in the works) and the creators painstakingly removed all added BS by Lucas, in a process called "despecialization", which often involved frame by frame manual busywork... Kudos for all involved in its creation.
I've heard it's really good; some day, I might just that, but honestly, even with the non-specialised versions I have, the picture quality isn't bad.
share"Years ago, I'd have been excited to dive into Old Republic lore and the lives of early Force users and the different approaches to religion in Star Wars, but now... after decades of prequels and sequels just basically stomping on potential... I don't think I'd care. "
To that - if you haven't already, please get around to play Knights of the Old Republic (the oringinal 2003 game). It is chock full of that Old Republic lore, it has brilliant characters, a great plot, and it's from 2003, so it's not tainted by even the prequel aesthetics.
It's a unique piece of Star Wars content, which is standalone and actually great. It has some fanservice, but not nearly as much as the sequel trilogy, and it's handling these moments with dignity and utmost respect towards the OT.
For an original OT fan - which I'm convinced you are - it's a must play. Or watch a playthrough on YouTube if you prefer that, but that story and atmosphere needs to be experienced.
I've heard it's really good, too. Maybe someday I'll play it. I'm not spending hours watching somebody else play a video game.
shareHonestly, if Jen and Cassian had survived, they wouldn't have been able to leave the planet. So they'd have been captured and jailed at least, maybe they'd be executed, or maybe they'd just spend the next several years in jail, and be released along with other political prisoners when Palpatine fell and the New Republic took over.
And what then? Both of them had been low-lifes before they joined the Rebellion, odds are they'd go back to being low-lifes.
If that happened, I'd be the 1st one to call plot hole after plot hole because they were not seen or even referred to in episode 4 and beyond
shareThat's not a plot hole. It's just that they'd be off soldiering in the Rebellion and not mentioned. There are a LOT of people in that group, so them not being mentioned would be normal. Admiral Ackbar didn't come up in A New Hope or Empire Strikes Back. Why? Plot hole? Nope, just that we don't spend those movies learning about every soldier in the Rebel Alliance.
shareHide in the fridge like Indiana Jones?
share