If the studios are too cheap to make a Secret Wars movie, they shouldn't make Venom movie. His origin is an interesting one and one many don't know. It entails a lot.
It's bad enough the symbiote's true origin won't have a movie, but the fact that a Venom movie is being released before a movie where Spidey has the black suit, means all those stories won't happen either.
This really is a cheap way to make money, without putting in the proper effort.
What works in a comic book doesn't necessarily work in a film. Case in point, all the recent DC films. You can't cram as much into a movie, or even two or three movies, to accomplish what you're suggesting. Just to properly adapt the Secret Wars would need a Fantastic Four film-- probably a trilogy-- to really establish who they are, who Dr. Doom is, who Molecule Man is, etc. Same with the X-Men. You'd need a Spider-Man trilogy, too, and enough films to introduce all the various heroes and villains, unless you want to go the DC route of starting the film with half an hour of exposition. "This is Dr. Doom. He's from Latveria. He has a pink helicopter with a shark painted on it," and so on.
Once you've spent a decade establishing everyone, then you need to film the Secret War itself. That's at least two movies, if done properly. After that, Spider-Man 4 features him in the black suit, only to end with the revelation that it's evil. You'd probably want to give Spider-Man another film before bringing in Venom so it doesn't feel forced and shoe-horned, so voila, Spider-Man 6-- introducing Venom.
In other words, you have to spend a decade building to Secret Wars the way Marvel did Infinity War, then bring in Venom in post-Secret Wars phase 2, i.e. phase 5.
Or, you can create a compelling story and create a film that introduces Venom and take it from there.
If I'm not mistaken, the Spider-Man cartoon handled it that way. The Symbiote came to earth on its own steam and Venom was there almost from the get-go.
I don't think a fraction of that is necessary. Movies have been made about most of the popular Marvel characters whether part of the MCU or not. Just like they combined West Coast and East Coast Avengers to make one team, leaving several characters out, they can do the same thing with Secret Wars. Not all the characters need to be included and the movie could introduce The Beyonder, Molecule Man, the secondary heroes and villains etc.
MCU versions of the X-Men and FF can be introduced here as well and have standalone movies later. Provided they get the rights. Spider-Man can get the suit in the movie and have one stand alone movie where he uses it and loses it and it finds Eddie Brock. The Venom movie can come right after. I don't need everything, but to me, this is a cop out. And you said "so it doesn't feel forced", but what they're doing is rushed and forced.
I'd be fine with this compromise, but they know Venom is so anticipated they don't want to spend the time or money to tell the story even partially right, because they don't want a delay. I'd be perfectly fine with a scaled down Secret Wars with less characters, as well as an abbreviated symbiote story based on the true origin. They cut corners like this in Hollywood all the time. There's no reason they couldn't do it now.
I get where you're coming from. For me, it's either/or, and I know they have to pick their spots. Comic books come out every month, some more often, and you can tie them together, a la Secret Wars II, and tell a 50 issue story in 6 months time.
For the film, I'm fine with major story revisions as long as the end result is solid. The Venom film doesn't feel rushed to me, but once I see it I may think differently. I saw Suicide Squad last night, and that felt rushed. The first 20 minutes was literally a woman reciting the bio and backstory of each character. As long as Venom has a start, solid middle, and engaging ending, I'll be 100% satisfied.
I guess only time will tell. I think at this point, the only possible saving grace would be if Spider-Man obtains the symbiote in Infinity War. Without the symbiote first merging with Peter Parker, there is no Venom. At least not the Venom in his current form. The one that looks like Spider-Man, has a spider symbol, and mimicks webshooting Even the eyes on the poster. They wouldn't look like that without Peter's influence.
I hope I'm surprised and it turns out good. Sadly, for me, that rarely happens. I can accept changes from comic to screen. This though looks like a complete overhaul that doesn't seem to add up to the Venom everyone knows. Again, time will tell.
Curious-- what did you think of Spider-Man:Homecoming?
shareI can't really answer that one without coming across as a persistent complainer....but with the exception of how they finally captured Spidey's true movements, I was far from impressed.
shareNo, that's fair. We like what we like. I only asked because that seemed like a film that really got the comic book down exactly right. I loved it-- that and Winter Soldier are my two favorite comic book films of all time-- and thought you might, too. Which comic films are your favorites?
In any event, I'm going to hide from the internet until tonight to avoid possible Infinity War spoilers...
Actually, I think Winter Soldier was the best MCU movie to date. So we definitely agree on that. Though I haven't seen Black Panther yet.
And I thought the exact same thing about Spider-Man: Homecoming. It's the first time they got Spidey right. Sadly, I didn't think they got much else right. That suit was terrible, and the cast was just bad. Not to mention the complete Reformation of MJ. It's disappointing too. Spider-Man is still my favorite Marvel character.
As for previews, I avoid commercials and online articles for all movies I want to see. Nowadays they show the entire movie in the preview, so I don't blame you.
I don't think Secret Wars is possible, but they could rework the origin a little bit to make it work.
Can you imagine how crazy the fans would go if Thanos, or The Black Order, somehow destroy the iron spider suit, forcing Peter to find an alternative in the form of some machine made by the Kree or Nova Corps?
Spider-man Homecoming sequel: Introduces Eddie Brock, who is doing a story which ultimately blows up in his face thanks to Spider-Man, Peter finds out what the costume can do, and uses it to fight the main villain, he also finds out that the costume is trying to permanently bond with him. The film ends with the scene at the church with Eddie and the symbiote finding each other.
Now, Sony is able to do a proper Venom film with Spider-Man as the nemesis, or they can have Venom vs Spider-Man be the end of a Homecoming trilogy.
That's not too different than one of my concessions and I'd be fine with it. It at least addresses who Venom is, unlike this complete rewrite that's coming out.
shareI'm really disappointed too that Spider-Man has been cut out. Eddie Brock became Venom because of Spider-Man. His whole look is from the symbiote coming from Spider-Man. I also always found it interesting how the symbiote chose Brock when he was on the verge of suicide. They decided they both hated Spidey and it was time to hunt him down and get him. I wonder what the reason will be when they explain the name "Venom" in the movie. From what I remember, Eddie Brock called himself "Venom" because of how he was writing for some lousy tabloid and spewing "venom." I wonder if we'll ever see the two ever have the epic fight on the big screen we should've got a long time ago.
shareGood point. Venom wouldn't look like, or behave like Venom, without the symbiote first having merged with Peter Parker.
shareUnderdog, glad to know you. I'm glad someone on here understands. Years ago when they first announced a Venom movie, I thought from the start we would see Spider-Man in it somehow, someway. If I'm not mistaken, I remember hearing about plans for a Venom movie back in 2008. I can't believe it's been that long. I remember how Eddie Brock lived in the Bronx. I was excited about that. I didn't think they would set this movie in San Francisco right away. I thought we would see the whole story from the beginning with Venom and Spider-Man, only from Brock's perspective. I remember when Brock first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man #300. I love that comic. I was hoping they were going to show in the movie how Brock was investigating the Sin Eater murders and caught who he thought was the real killer. Only to have Spider-Man catch the real guy. After that, Brock's life went down the drain. He was contemplating suicide and along came the symbiote. I loved Brock's look in the comic too. He was this huge muscle bound rugged looking guy. My favorite part is when Eddie Brock reveals to Spider-Man who he is. Spider-Man recognizes him as Eddie Brock and Brock says to him, "Indeed, I used to be Eddie Brock! Before you stole my career! Erased my future! Obliterated everything I lived for!" I also loved how Brock knew Spider-Man's identity and used it to taunt him. I don't remember exactly which one it was, I read it so long ago. Brock goes to see Peter Parker and he gets the chance to meet Aunt May and he's behaving so polite.
shareThey're removing everything that makes Eddie Brock and the symbiote, Venom. This is an origin story that really needs to stay true. Otherwise you don't have the same character we all know.
I'm glad you listed Amazing Spider-Man 300 as the first appearance of Venom. Oddly, not everyone would agree. We used to debate it all the time. A friend of mine is set in his belief that Web if Spider-Man 18 is the first apelpearance since, unless I'm remembering wrong, one of the last panels shows his hand. I say that doesn't count as an appearance, but not everyone agrees apparently.
I wish Sony would just sell the rights back to Marvel. They've already proven they can't capture the essence of the characters, but this one is a travesty. I thought Marvel was at least involved this time around, but maybe I was wrong. How could they be a part of this sacrilege?
I'm okay cutting out Secret Wars, but removing Spidey from his origin completely is a bad choice. Venom's entire concept is that he is an evil Spider-Man. You take that element away and you get your typical "Person is infected with alien stuff" premise that has been done to death in the sci-fi genre.
shareI agree whole-heartedly.
shareI agree too. And I've been saying all along, there is no Venom without Spider-Man. I would've loved for the movie to stay true to his origin. I would've loved to have the movie end with a huge fight scene between Venom and Spider-Man.
He was a journalist. He had the wrong story, he got in trouble for it ... the whole essence to us for the Marvel characters: stay close to the bible, stay close to the emotional story, and the rest is fun.[/I]
[I]—Producer Matt Tolmach on staying true to the character's comic origins when developing Venom
What a lie.
Now imagine if something like this ended up in the movie:
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Venom.html