As much as I liked the movie I was very disappointed there was not the proper Batman vs. Joker fight. I cant understand why it never happened. It feels like their meetings were only in passing. There should've been a real hand to hand combat because Joker can definitely hold his own.
shareI like this movie because it doesn't end in a fist fight. The climax is a mental battle
shareYou actually think the long drawn out conversation on the rooftop was more preferred over a street fight? I'm not in favor of a direct fist match, just a real physical battle with head games and booby traps included. Would've been more memorable if they took it there.
shareThe conversation was not the movie's climax; it was actually the setup for the next film (but Heath killed himself).
The climax(s) were the decisions on the boats and the coverup of Dent's death. You really don't understand this movie ,which is why you wanted fist fight where the outcome was known when you walked into the theatre. When a fist (or dun) fight is the climax the winner is always the guy/gal whose name is in the title. I suspect you like the TDKR.
What are you talking about? I'd never said anything about this being a climax. I understood the movie just fine. I just wanted a more physical battle with Joker and Batman. I was very clear in the terms of how I wanted their fight to be depicted.
shareYes, you were very clear that you wanted a comic book ending with a fist fight. That is a trope of every comic book movie (except this one). And the Joker could not hold his own against Batman, a guy who trained martial arts with professional ninjas
shareBatman would destroy The Joker in a physical fight.
And even so, they had a half decent fight on top of the building when The Joker sent the dogs after Batman. The Joker was beating him with that crowbar or whatever he had, enough to trap him under that post on the building.
I think the point in this film was Batman was the muscle and The Joker was the brains. “You have nothing. Nothing to threaten me with. Nothing to do with all your strength.”
Yeah, they fought on the roof but it's kinda "twitchy" in its film style, so its hard to follow sometimes and doesn't make for a top-grade confrontation. I think that's probably why OP forgot that they tangled entirely.
shareExactly my point. Their fight could have been handled much better as to feel more like a payoff than what was given.
shareI felt like the movie paid off, but maybe that's because I also felt like it was more about the conflict between Bruce/Bats' dual nature, represented with things like Harvey Dent literally becoming Two-Faced and the chaos v. order theme.
I also assumed that they'd have their really big battle in the third movie... RIP Heath Ledger...
Yea was the Joker really gonna be in the 3rd movie with a bigger role or just some kind of cameo u know like the Scarecrow kept getting 🤔.
shareA cameo would have been so disappointing. Best use would have been again as an agent of chaos, who escapes Arkham in the confusion and starts becoming a MAJOR thorn in Bane's side as much as Batman. Maybe Batman could have used Joker to disrupt Bane? Like, almost manipulate him (without Joker realising, naturally) into creating distractions and problems for Bane.
I was a bit disappointed by Scarecrow's lack of big payoff in number three. I thought after the cameo in The Dark Knight that Scarecrow would have been a bigger player in Rises. I read the tiny piece in TDK as a "reminder". Like, "Hey, don't forget this guy! He'll be big later!" but later never came. He's just a crazy kangaroo court judge. It was a bit dissatisfying.
Yea it was so annoying to see that happen to Scarecrow! He was important in the original & I thought he was gonna be again in the sequel but Nolan just put him there as a pest or something u know. No closure at all to his story. No mention of the Joker in Rises either & that sucked & was stupid.
shareI honestly wouldn't have thought anything of the Scarecrow's arc had Nolan left him out, but he kept putting him in and then not doing anything with him. I did enjoy his role as the "judge", but it could just as easily have been one of Bane's flunkies. If he truly was still involved with the League of Shadows, why do we only see him once?
To put it another way: if Jonathan Crane were left out of the second and third films entirely, I wouldn't have thought about his absence at all. I'd just assume that he was locked up with everybody else. But since they made a small something out of including him, I got confused why it was just that little smidgeon.
As for the Joker, well... Yes, I'd have liked to have seen something more come of him, but ultimately I understand why they didn't. Even mentioning the Joker would have had a "Scarecrow Effect" where I'd want to know more, and I understand why Ledger's death precluded the inclusion of the Clown Prince of Crime. It's too bad they couldn't keep going with him, but I 100% get why. It's different with Scarecrow, because I understand leaving him out OR keeping his plot going, but not the lukewarm, wish-wash they went with.
Yup I agree so much & the way it ended with Scarecrow riding off on a horse in Begins never to be seen again would be okay since he got a good zap by Rachel.
shareYup I agree so much & the way it ended with Scarecrow riding off on a horse in Begins never to be seen again would be okay since he got a good zap by Rachel.
shareYeah. We'd all just assume he'd been caught (or, darkly, died of heart failure between the fear gas and the taser). But we see him, so he must be significant! Except he's not...
shareHey do u have any idea why the director did that to Scarecrow? Do u think another sequel would've been good after Rises? To make it a quadriloy.
shareFor anybody stumbling on this thread, SPOILERS below.
I know nothing; I can only speculate. Nolan works with Cillian Murphy a lot, so I'm going to guess that he just likes working with the actor and wanted to keep working with him, giving him gigs, or something like that.
I don't think another film would have been a good idea. Bruce retires at the end of TDKR and his arc is brought to a reasonably satisfying conclusion. Pulling him back in would be to betray that ending. I'm not a huge fan of TDKR, but its story wraps up.
The only other avenue would be Blake taking over the mantle of the Bat, but that would probably just feel like Batman Begins all over again as somebody new takes up the cowl, learning to fight, struggling to take on the role, and developing a new relationship with Gordon. That could be a good movie, but I think it would feel a little worn out at that point. It would feel like they were just going for the money.
If they want that story - and it's not a bad one - I think DC would be better served by starting a movie with Bruce's funeral and Dick Grayson comes home to become the Batman and deal with his loss. I'd watch that movie, but I'd prefer it as a standalone story, kinda like what Joker did. I don't want it wrapped up in a whole continuity, just tell me a story.
to be fair after rewatching begins and this a lot. Nolan SUCKS at fight scenes. like they were total garbage
shareI don't mind them as much as some, but yeah, he clearly isn't as interested in the action as he is in the story twists. I like the dock scene in Begins, which is as much horror as action. I also like the chase scene in TDK where Bats rides down Joker (although his blowing up a bunch of cars seemed like he was a little too casual with possible collateral damage).
sharethe jokers power dont come from his physical ability to go toe to toe with batman. its from his erratic unpredictable behavior, ability to manipulate others and cause chaos.
the joker def CANT handle his own. often in the cartoons he replies to silly gimmicks or hoards of thugs to fight for him
We did get a Batman vs. Joker fight. Please show me an example of a Batman vs. Joker fight that you think is better?
shareUm... none I guess unless u wanna count the old 60s version when they punched it out all the time & stuff. The Dark Knight fight version was still good though.
shareThe animated film version of The Dark Knight Returns and Mask of the Phantasm. I think I prefer TDK overall - and I'm not knocking Heath's Joker - but the actual combats themselves were more satisfying in those films.
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