MovieChat Forums > Grizzly Man (2005) Discussion > Lost a little respect for Werner Herzog ...

Lost a little respect for Werner Herzog when...

posted 12 years ago by beno21
45 replies | jump to latest

First of all, let me say that this is one of my favourite films, albeit an often uncomfortable one to watch, and this isn't intended as an attack on the general integrity of the director as I think he did a fantastic job in giving a balanced analysis of a complicated individual.

I did however feel that the scene where Werner Herzog listened to the audio in front of Jewel Pavolak came across as being in extremely poor taste. It seemed to me an unnecessarily exploitative action for reasons I'll explain.

Jewel is a woman who knew Timothy Treadwell intimately, a woman for whom to listen to the audio recording was understandably too much to deal with. So why did Herzog's staging of a scene where he does indeed listen to the recording in front of her need to happen at all? As he did this, with the camera focusing in slowly on Jewel's face as she in turn watches Herzog's reaction closely, on the verge of tears, not only made a voyeur out of her - but out of the viewer too. In other words, we are watching her watching Herzog as he himself listens, as voyeur, to horror he has no right to listen to, let alone a personal or professional need to hear.

His listening to that recording through headphones would have added nothing in itself alone to the film, so this scene inherently required us to watch Jewel's reaction to Herzog's own for it to have impact.

In other words, Jewel was sat there in the first place for the sole purpose of refracting emotion back at us, the audience; essentially, I felt she was rather 'used' in this moment.

I didn't like it one bit, and yes - it seemed massively exploitative to me. I know there are a million and one arguments against what I have said, and many of them will be theoretically valid I'm sure, but I personally lost a little respect for Herzog at this moment in the film.

This is not a cinematic criticism of this point in the film, rather one coming from a point of compassion for Jewel Pavolak.

[–] sethgadman 9 years ago

Autumn is drawing in, it is night, and it is raining. The environment which was so majestic in the summer has turned decidedly sombre, desolate, and indifferent to your tenuous existence. The ‘bear expert’ who is chaperoning you around this remote wilderness has just exhausted his expertise or hit a brick wall in the form of a Grizzly gnawing at his head. You are very terrified, and very soon you will very alone, next in line to suffer the same fate as Tim who is currently being eaten alive, or else snuffed out and stowed away for later.

Most people here barely mention Amie, when it is her perspective represented in the tape that is the most disturbing.

Tim made arrangements for this eventuality and most who knew him must have deemed it a constant possibility. Amie Huguenard was entranced by this man, and felt safe in his presence. His recklessness resulted in their deaths; which isn’t say he is deserving of no pity, but his friend Jewel was complicit in this documentary, and Herzog during its lengthy assembly had earned her trust and blessing for this airing of the tape to take place, and Tim’s demise is a very small part of what makes this tape worthy of destruction, as was Herzog’s gut reaction to hearing it. When presenting this story to the general public for a profit, there’s always an element of potential for exploitation, but the contents of the tape or integral to the tale, and perhaps Herzog only settled on his decision during post production. I haven’t seen this film in over 5 years, and I’m sure that my enduring impression of it is the scene of Herzog hearing this tape and the impressions we as viewers get of the dire situation as a result of that.

It would do a disservice to the deceased’s lives and deaths to not get across the horror of their demise, not to mention the animals themselves, and anyone else who might potentially get in their proximity. Herzog does that as tactfully as he can.

[–] Sanpaco13 9 years ago

Lol I totally agree, I was just commenting on another thread about how morbid this scene was.

"Is that your IQ or the number of dipwads your mother had?" - Car Pool Man

[–] katranjamz 8 years ago

Unfortunately, I noticed the same 'technique' in Into The Abyss. I can't think of any specific moment right now but the overall impression I got was that there was too much stress on the tragedy and many of the questions were pointed enough to draw out teary responses.

The moment you mention here also seems manipulative and I was surprised that a director of a caliber and standing of Herzog would have to resort to such tactics.

Having said this I have heard Herzog talk about how his sole motive during the shooting of a film is to find 'The Truth' (or honesty, purity etc.). This push, though unpleasant, might be a step towards the same goal. Emotional honesty cannot be discounted.

[–] mel2000 (244) 3 years ago

I didn't like the watch scene. It should have been given to his parents. He was not in a relationship with her.

Jewel Pavolak was Treadwell's business partner. He left his entire estate to her.

I felt she was rather 'used' in this moment.

Jewel Pavolak is the co-executive producer of Grizzly Man. She wasn't used.

[–] lm362 (341) 2 years ago

One of the reasons I think it was done was for the audience to see both of their reactions and maybe he and Jewel did it so that anyone in the audience who would think of doing what Timothy Treadwell did(be around bears he did not know nor did they know him, have an obviously frightened person with him or be around bears at a dangerous location) would see this part in the movie and not do what Treadwell did. Also, if Jewel gave her permission for this part to take place with a full right to choose to not take part I don't think she can be said to be "used".

[–] Boricanator (1376) 2 years ago

I feel the same way. I felt it was important to illustrate the overall message of the documentary. There is no magical world of the bears. There is only brutal and unforgiving nature.

[–] lm362 (341) 2 years ago

No. Brutality is only a small part of what a bear is. They are intelligent creatures and for 13 summers they showed how patient and tolerant they can be with a human going up to them as if they knew and understood each other, which at least they knew that wasn't the case. As for having an unforgiving nature, humans only have that.

[–] Boricanator (1376) 2 years ago

They tolerated him before because he went during the good seasons. As soon as food went short, he became their meal.

I am not saying bears are brutal, per say. But they are just animals. They just care about eating, screwing and taking a dump. And they will get violent if those needs aren’t met. Nature is brutal, and that includes humans.

[–] DMT (3906) 2 years ago

worst part about it is he told her to delete the tape after and didn't didn't even let us hear it!! Fuck you Herzog!! why u get to have all the fun of getting to listen to the annoying hippy get eaten alive?!? infront of his ex girl as u add making it even more weird, but then ur gonna act like ur on a high horse and want it scrapped for everyone else?!? what a hypocrite!! i believe the bear eating audio was eventually leaked but people arent sure if it the real thing or a hoax immitation

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Whoosh!

[–] ebhaynz (3560) 2 years ago

Well, a huge part of film-making is to "tell us a story". I believe Herzog found out this crazy story and decided to jump on it. Honestly I think he did a fantastic job, it's compelling film work at it's finest, even the music fits perfectly. Although some of the film seems exploitative it's nothing as exploitative as what Treadwell did to his friend who decided to hang out with him.

I think it's important for us to see how far some people will go to live their dreams. This is a huge part of many Herzog documentaries.