MovieChat Forums > The Stand (1994) Discussion > The name "Randall Flagg" was that Stephe...

The name "Randall Flagg" was that Stephen King's play on the phrase...


"Grand Old Flag"? Was it Stephen King's way of slamming the USA and equating it with Satan?

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"Grand Old Flag"? Was it Stephen King's way of slamming the USA and equating it with Satan?


That's an interesting idea. He really did not treat the military with much respect in the book, did he? Still, I didn't see the book as a slam against the country as a whole until you pointed it out.

Certainly food for thought. I'll chew on it and get back with a more substantial response later.

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You guys are all really looking and over-reaching, I think.

"The people responsible for the virus weren't treated very respectfully"

"That romantic comedy had a lot of flirting"

"That book had a lot of words"

No duh. Villains don't get respect. It's a fictitious story. Sometimes the military is the bad guy. Stephen King isn't known for loving how the government and military do everything anyway, nor is he required to.

If you're looking for all your stories to go out of their way to be respectful of villains, and/or the military, the two not being mutually exclusive, you sound a bit like a totalitarian

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Why the name-calling?

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I never called you any names, but sorry if you feel that way

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I don't think he was slamming the country.

Later in the book they all get together and sing the song God Bless America, don't they? Something like that.

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I don't think he was slamming the country.

Later in the book they all get together and sing the song God Bless America, don't they? Something like that.
Even if that was wasn't his intention, it sure came out that way. After all, the US military was presented in a very unfavorable light and the rest of the government was not depicted much better. POTUS was presented as lying about the virus and the FBI was trying to shut down newspapers. Let's not forget the TV station in Boston where the anchors were forced at gunpoint to read approved copy over the air.

Stu was going to be killed by Elder, and Starkey ordered newsmen to be killed.

No, my friend; King presented the USA in a very unfavorable light.

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He was distrustful of the government, yeah. Rightly so, I'd say.

I'm sure there's a lot he likes about America, though.

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I think you have to remember the time it was written in. In the 70's, counter culture was still a thing. Randall having been a part of so many subversive groups and having met so many people who in our history personified anarchy made him almost an allegory for the disenfranchised youth of the time. Even the way he dressed, with the denim outfits and peace button and cowboy boots painted him as someone right out of one of those movies. So I think the name is almost a play on the flag burning that was popular in the day, especially since Randall wanted the world to burn.

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It seems that King, at least at that time, was one of those who viewed the US as the chief source of evil in the world. They have always been around, but after the Vietnam war, their numbers either increased or they became much more vocal about it.

Look at who the biggest villain was pre-CT. The US government. Look at who the biggest problem was during the epidemic: again, it was Uncle Sam. And in the days immediately after the epidemic, it was the government. Flagg didn't even appear until after the demise of the USA

I don't trust the government too much either, but I also have enough respect for the US military to be confident that the majority of its' members would not follow clearly illegal orders to massacre innocent non-combatants. In my own novel, The Pale Horse, this does not happen.

From this, it's safe to conclude the question presented by the OP has a lot of validity.

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As soon as order is restored in Boulder, the entire group sings the National Anthem in a very patriotic and moving way. He can be both critical of the US and patriotic just like things were at the time of the Revolution and consistently throughout history.

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This is a valid point, but the main villain prior to the appearance of Flagg was the US government, specifically the military. In the film, Rae Flowers made the statement that what the army was doing never stopped the 'real patriots among us'.

However, that the US was and is seen by many as the main source of evil in the world, is still valid, and a good case can be made that King thought in such terms.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the book written sometime in the 1970s and when King was quite young? From what I gather, anti-government/anti-military feeling was generally still running high at that time from the Vietnam War, especially among young people, so it would hardly be surprising if King was influenced by that at the time, even subconsciously. I heard a commentary of King talking about The Stand the other day and he said that the premise came from 4 main influences: the Patty Hearst case (and the idea of people becoming "brainwashed" by their captors), a woman talking about how a plague shall fall once in a generation, a case of some government/military experiment going wrong in Utah and killing a bunch of sheep with apparently the only thing saving Salt Lake City from being wiped out being the direction the wind happened to be blowing at the time, and his own innate fear of not only getting sick but getting sick and then (in his words) "falling into the hands of people who don't necessarily care about making you better" - basically the situation Stu and his friends are in at the start of the book/miniseries. Those last two are probably the biggest influences of being critical towards the US government and its military and really, it's not awfully difficult to see why that is. In any case, it seems King may have mellowed by the time he wrote the miniseries since the military is portrayed a little more sympathetically there, where it seems they're acting out of a genuine desire to contain the plague and the panic rather than purely attempting to cover up what's happened.

Plus, it's sort of worth considering that in these types of stories, whoever is ostensibly in charge is more often than not portrayed negatively. After all, things have to get wildly out of control somehow and a bad situation is undoubtedly exacerbated in a dramatically pleasing way when the people in charge make all the wrong decisions.

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Very valid points, that have been raised more than a few times before, both here and on the IMDb message boards. King is very open about the influence of the Vietnam War and the political upheaval of the early 1970's on his writing.

I think your post supports the idea in the OP and by yours truly, that, after Flagg, the US government was the main villain in the book.

Like I said earlier, King seemed to have seen the US government as the main source of evil in the world.

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See, the thing I'd take issue with is placing the mantle of "villain" on the US government at all. They disappear completely from the picture, relatively speaking, and the "good group" very quickly adopt a hierarchical system that's basically a more primitive version of the governmental structure that was in place before, with the various committees. Really, the only purpose the government has in the story (from a dramatic standpoint) is to (1) create the initial crisis, which was purely unintentional on their part, and (2) to push the escalation of the initial crisis to breaking point - yes, their reasoning and methods of acting are hardly morally upright, but I see them more as being "unwitting instigators" more than out-and-out villains, the same way I wouldn't necessarily deem Harold a villain despite clearly taking some morally reprehensible actions. Both Harold and the US government/military are portrayed negatively but I see it as being more a case of King judging individuals on how they act when given a choice between the hard route of bettering oneself or the easier route of acting the same you always have, even if those actions are negative. To put it simply, they're merely severely flawed rather than full-on villainous, especially when compared with Flagg.

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In this story, I can't see the government as anything but a villain because of their actions after Campion got to Arnette. Their primary goal was not to contain the virus, it was to cover up the government's role in the creation of the epidemic in the first place.

I'll grant that their role ended when the epidemic stopped, but they were far more than 'unwitting instigators' that you seem to think, Just because they had a lesser role to play than Flagg does not lessen that they were villains as much as Flagg.

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IDK. I was never sure why King named him that. He's not exactly flip with symbolism so it definitely means something. I've never figured it out.

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Have you noticed that all of his pre-CT incarnations seem to have the initials 'RF'? Glen noted this in the last of the mass meetings before The Four left on their trip, but what the significance was, was not clear.

King has not said what the RF initials signify, at least to my knowledge.

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