MovieChat Forums > Born on the Fourth of July (1990) Discussion > Was the Vietnam war a "just" war and for...

Was the Vietnam war a "just" war and for that matter, was it legal?


Compared to 2003's Iraq war for instance, or any of the other wars America fought in or launched?

Also, is the fact that, and it has been documented, American Vietnam war veterans upon their return were often confronted, dismissed, had anger launched at them etc upon their return, was it understandable and justified? How did American public at the time realize so well that they were wrong to participate in such a war?
Cheers.

reply

The reasons for the US's involvement in Vietnam is a topic that can fill up multiple books and there have been numerous books on it. Also the US' involvement in Vietnam is something that took place over 30 years and traversed five presidential administrations.

The reasons for each administration's escalations and retractions in the war varied in accordance with the climates they operated in.

So was it a "just" war?

As the Pentagon Papers clearly stated every single presidential administration deceived the American Public on why The US was in the war.

reply

That is a question best answered by the Vietnamese.

But they cannot answer honestly, they have a one party rule, no freedom of press, no liberty to criticize government or official action.

reply

I think Americans can also answer it.

reply

So, today, in Vietnam, the situation with their political climate is, what, on par with North Korea? One party, zero free speech, no freedom of press and media etc, and they can't even address say the criticism to that of ANOTHER country and state, i.e., NOT their own, America, over the war that happened there more than 40 years ago?

reply

How can one fully trust the opinion of a countryman that doesn't have liberty of freedom of speech? You are making it sound like the whole country was against America, they were not.

Also many Vietnamese alive today have never EXPERIENCED liberty, and once drunk, everything else tastes like tyranny.

reply

[deleted]

All? A bit definitive...

reply

[deleted]

The yoke of imperialism was heavy in Vietnam.

It has been replaced with the yoke of communism. One party rule, no freedom of speech and most importantly...no lady liberty. We will never know how the country would have developed different if it had these freedoms.

Today they are one of America's allies. Vietnamese are viewing the Chinas rise with alarm.

reply

Also, in order for another country to declare a war or an invasion, and for it to be "legal" and "just", does that country necessarily HAVE to have attacked the other country FIRST, could there not say be other legal and justified grounds for declaring a war?

And if this is so strongly to be the case, unless maybe US government back in time and today has very loose morals, then why do they invade other countries like this constantly and how do the other forces in the government basically allow it without giving it a proper thought?

reply

I also at times can't help but wonder, unless they are either deliberately lying or are being deluded or maybe it is also an unfortunate nature of any war in and of itself...

If let's say in some wars American government and military forces may invade or intervene for good causes, such as getting rid of a particularly brutal leaders and their regimes, or fighting terrorists etc or people who are in some or other ways responsible for maybe carrying out certain terrorist acts in another country...

Can they not fight such a war in a more humane manner that avoids targeting innocent civilians in any way? For their own good mostly, no doubt yes but also...

So that perhaps in our life, it would be easier to distinguish the good and the bad and then we wouldn't have say people who have noble intentions of becoming not only just as bad but WORSE than the bad guys they attempt to overthrow even if sadly and unfortunately...

Real life does not work that way at all, and all wars have their horrible and brutal natures to them on both sides whatever the causes of starting them.

reply

Freedom is never free.

reply

And the price is HUMAN LIVES. The thing is, are any of the recent Middle East wars, Afghanistan, Iraq etc even fought FOR freedom in the very FIRST place?

reply

Yes

S Hussein/ Taliban

Both not big fans of liberty.

reply

[deleted]

What has communism got to do with anything relating to lack of deaths from a viral pandemic?

reply

[deleted]

I was thinking maybe geographically, Vietnam was somehow naturally "lucky" to have avoided the Covid19 pandemic. But, OK, I see then...

reply

I've yet to hear the "real" reason we were there. All wars have critics. Critics of war ALWAYS accuse their country of being there for "the wrong reasons", if not outright lying. To this day, I've read countless opinions, seen footage, interviews, etc. of people saying "it was a lie" (much like with Iraq), but not much on what the lie supposedly was.

reply

If you really want to know, go do some research on The Pentagon Papers. The War Traversed five presidential administrations and each of those administrations had different reasons for staying in Vietnam.

reply

Weird how you won't just tell me.

reply

It takes books to do that I am am not going to spoon feed your lazy ass

I am not going to write the paragraphs and paragraphs that would be needed to explain it to you. The dynamics of the cold war are complexed and evolved a great deal over the 40 years it went on. Explaining how those pushed us into the war would also take books and books. The dynamics of the domestic issues that drove US involvement also evolved a great deal over the 30 years we were involved in the war.

If you really want to know, go do your own research, If you aren't willing to, then enjoy your ignorance.

reply

You: Makes a claim.

Me: Oh, really? Why is that?

You: Do your own research!!!

reply

On a positive note, former British prime minister Harold Wilson kept Britain out of the Vietnam wars, a major contrast to how willfully Tony Blair joined George W Bush in the Iraq war of 2003.

reply

Maybe its too complex to fit into a single sentence?

reply

There's a character limit here? I didn't know that!

reply

You must mean 3 administrations : Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson. It was Nixon who began the withdrawal in 1969.

reply

I won't get into wars on this board since I already go too much into politics as it is BUTTTT LOL I will address the subject of people attacking (physically and verbally and in print) US service MEN who came home from the Vietnam War,,,,, those people attacking US service MEN should have had the dog fuck beat out of them.

Just my opinion.

reply

2 Tim - so in other words, they were wrong, right?

Hey, isn't that one of the main points of the very first Rambo movie "First Blood" (1982) with Sylvester Stallone (a great classic by the way and one of Stallone's top 3 best movies ever, and easily the best movie in the "Rambo" series), that it was wrong to mistreat and think badly of all US Vietnam war veterans like that?

But then, among others, as shown by movies like "Casualties of War" (1989), some of them at least were just plain evil as well.

reply

For instance, in today's day and age, former Prime Minister Tony Blair, as the last 10 years have explicitly proven and even mainstream news have shown it without censorship, is constantly greeted in UK and Ireland with major hostility by crowds of people wherever he goes, who shout and display flags and banners, calling him a war criminal, a mass murderer, a political liar, a traitor, a coward etc for the 2003 Iraq war, and many of those people even have a personal grudge against him for the loss of their own family members in that war.

And that example by many is seen as justified outrage.

By using that above comparison as an analogy, was it necessarily wrong then to shout and speak badly of American Vietnam war veterans when they returned home, and how many of them were guilty of committing atrocities or war crimes during that war, and if war was illegal in and of itself, shouldn't they maybe also held accountable, or did they not know and thus don't hold as much a responsibility as the government members who sent them there?

reply